New indoor boiler installation cost

Darwin

Hi all, sorry for another of these threads, but I am pricing the installation of a new indoor condensor boiler at present. The existing boiler has been installed for nearly 14 years, and it has had a new pump and burner installed over the years but is giving trouble again so we figure time to upgrade to a condensor boiler.

So we've been quoted €4,100 for the installation of a Grant Vortex 50/90 condensor boiler (no wiring to hot press), 20/50 Grumpfoss pump, horizontal flue kit, C11 timer, and various other parts. Labour is €1,500 (2 men for 3 days work). This is without a grant as it is more or less a replacement of our existing boiler. Looking at some of the other threads here, it seems this quote is completely off the wall. They are however a reputable company and I'm pretty sure the job will be done properly. Would appreciate any feedback.

Robbie.G

Darwin wrote: »

Hi all, sorry for another of these threads, but I am pricing the installation of a new indoor condensor boiler at present. The existing boiler has been installed for nearly 14 years, and it has had a new pump and burner installed over the years but is giving trouble again so we figure time to upgrade to a condensor boiler.

So we've been quoted €4,100 for the installation of a Grant Vortex 50/90 condensor boiler (no wiring to hot press), 20/50 Grumpfoss pump, horizontal flue kit, C11 timer, and various other parts. Labour is €1,500 (2 men for 3 days work). This is without a grant as it is more or less a replacement of our existing boiler. Looking at some of the other threads here, it seems this quote is completely off the wall. They are however a reputable company and I'm pretty sure the job will be done properly. Would appreciate any feedback.

At least Dick turpin wore a mask

Darwin

All the component parts were itemised and costed and seem to be correct, it would appear the labour cost is the biggie?

Robbie.G

Darwin wrote: »

All the component parts were itemised and costed and seem to be correct, it would appear the labour cost is the biggie?

Still €2600 for materials still seems a bit excessive.Labour cost would be ok.

shane0007

Keep Vaseline to hand with that one. I would be cheaper than that will full heating controls to SEAI standards and you would qualify for grant.
3 days! How long will they be admiring their lovely work or will that time be spent counting?

Robbie.G

To be realistic that price is ridiculous time and material would be more like €2500 for what your getting

Darwin

Ok cheers guys, just wanted to sanity check it before looking elsewhere. If anyone knows of a reputable installer in the Laois area, I'd be grateful for a PM. Thanks

shane0007

Robbie.G wrote: »

To be realistic that price is ridiculous time and material would be more like €2500 for what your getting

Absolutely agree. And be done and dusted in one day if there was no power flush (which was not mentioned, hmmm....).

Robbie.G

shane0007 wrote: »

Absolutely agree. And be done and dusted in one day if there was no power flush (which was not mentioned, hmmm....).

What's a power flush (wink) if it took longer than a day you need shooting also no mention of disposal

shane0007

Hmmm... Very funny!

I would always offer but the service is not free and is not always taken up by the client. The possible repercussions are always explained.

TPM

the op price is well off the mark alright, Even to supply and fit an oil tank with it it would be ott.
The reason there is no grant is because with the no wiring to the hotpress there cant be any zoning, which would have a major affect on the efficency of the system.

Is the quote just to supply and fit the vortex in the same location?


Shane and robbie your price is certainly more like it, and even if it was a nightmare of an install with access, awkward location, plume kit, pipework mods etc, it wouldnt be much more.

Do grant require a power flush as part or the install?

Im sure at that price they will take care of your old boiler for you, meaning they will have it up on done deal for a few hundred that evening:p

corkgsxr

It's a day to a day and a half job for one person.

Parts would be about 2000 at very most

shane0007

TPM wrote: »

Do grant require a power flush as part or the install?

It is not a requirement but it is recommended in the SEAI Code of Practice.
It is more important from the manufacturer's point of view as it can lead to loss of warranty if the heat exchanger were to fail within the 5 year warranty period and the system was not flushed. It is recorded in the Boiler Passport which is returned to the manufacturer to instigate the warranty.

TPM

shane0007 wrote: »

It is not a requirement but it is recommended in the SEAI Code of Practice.
It is more important from the manufacturer's point of view as it can lead to loss of warranty if the heat exchanger were to fail within the 5 year warranty period and the system was not flushed. It is recorded in the Boiler Passport which is returned to the manufacturer to instigate the warranty.

Sorry I meant Grant as in manufacturer not seai But you answered my question anyway, thanks

shane0007

Where I get annoyed is when some installers give a quick whizz on a powerflusher or worse still a so-called powerflusher, whip out the boiler and slap in a new and jobs a good 'un. That is not a powerflush! It generally takes me about 30 mins on each rad. Setting up the system for the flush can take upto an hour. Disconnection/re-instatement time. Then balancing the whole system on completion.

jimjimt

It can be done much quicker with the new Magna Cleanse and not as aggressive on the heating system.

shane0007

A powerflusher is not aggressive on a heating system as the principle is high velocity low pressure. I personally cannot see how you can achieve high velocity with a flusher that relies on the system circulator to move particles back to the magnet. I also find that the magnet is small and becomes overcome easily.
I was using the standard flush buddy with my powerflow until I upgraded to the new flush magnet. The difference is unbelievable. So if anyone wishes to purchase a flush buddy....

jimjimt

I personally cannot see how you can achieve high velocity with a flusher that relies on the system circulator to move particles back to the magnet. I also find that the magnet is small and becomes overcome easily.

It does not achieve the same velocity as a power flusher and does not need to hence less aggressive on the system.

I use a highly calibrated rubber mallet.
It has two large magnets.

I have used both systems and the Magna Cleanse is tops for me.
Follow Adey's instructions and it works very well.
I also do a before and after with a thermal imager so i know in full if it works or not.

shane0007

jimjimt wrote: »

I use a highly calibrated rubber mallet.

LOL, I must get me one of them. Mine's just a non-calibrated dead blow one!

TPM

shane0007 wrote: »

Where I get annoyed is when some installers give a quick whizz on a powerflusher or worse still a so-called powerflusher, whip out the boiler and slap in a new and jobs a good 'un. That is not a powerflush! It generally takes me about 30 mins on each rad. Setting up the system for the flush can take upto an hour. Disconnection/re-instatement time. Then balancing the whole system on completion.

It wouldnt be impossible to spend of a day carrying out a proper power flush and you dont know how long it will take untill you are actually doing it some systems can be a nightmare to get done.

I have done a quick clean on older systems that werent heating properly but I dont refer to these (of charge) as power flushes. the thing you need to be careful of when you dont carry out a proper full power flush is you can loosen up crap that can cause blockages after.

jimjimt

Some houses can take two days to complete in full and may require a visit a few weeks later for a final drain and add inhibitor.

All depends on how many and how blocked the rads are.

Radiator suffering from indigestion.



Taking a beaten from a plumber.




It was worth the violence.

kanji

Its dissapointing to be branded a rip off merchant by my peers.
Its doubly dissapointing to be branded a rip off merchant when the full facts were not furnished and nobody thought to ask for the full facts.

The OP was furnished with 2 quotations to install a high efficiency grant vortex 50/90 oil boiler.
The first quotation was to a full SEAI specification. The issue with this was the most convienent path that I could find for cableing between the hotpress and the boiler was through trunking at high level through 3 rooms underneath coving.
As this could be described as an eyesore at best I also gave the above quotation which includes mechanical controls ie thermostatic cylinder valve and thermostatic radiator valves.

As stated in the thread fitting a high efficiency boiler without any controls is a complete waste of time but unfortunatley the OP failed to mention that these would be fitted.

Our Company has always had a policy to dispose of waste responsibly from any of our jobs. This includes recycling metals, cardboard and plastics. IT DOES NOT INCLUDE PUTTING THE BOILER UP ON DONE DEAL THAT NIGHT.

There is a reason why the OP was able to refer to us as a reputable Company as we do top quality work and not a rush job where you would have call backs etc, which is reflected in the price. Also just to note its a quote so if the quoted amount of time was not used it would not be charged for and on the flip side if job went over the specified time for some reason this would not be charged for.

I also want to note that this job has vat included at 23% due to the 2/3rd rule from Revenue. Most installers are charging 13.5% which is illegal and if they are audited by Revenue they may have a hugh bill on their hands.

To the OP as with any quotation there is negotiation room. Please feel free to contact us with any questions you may have.
Regards

Neil

Robbie.G

kanji wrote: »

Its dissapointing to be branded a rip off merchant by my peers.
Its doubly dissapointing to be branded a rip off merchant when the full facts were not furnished and nobody thought to ask for the full facts.

The OP was furnished with 2 quotations to install a high efficiency grant vortex 50/90 oil boiler.
The first quotation was to a full SEAI specification. The issue with this was the most convienent path that I could find for cableing between the hotpress and the boiler was through trunking at high level through 3 rooms underneath coving.
As this could be described as an eyesore at best I also gave the above quotation which includes mechanical controls ie thermostatic cylinder valve and thermostatic radiator valves.

As stated in the thread fitting a high efficiency boiler without any controls is a complete waste of time but unfortunatley the OP failed to mention that these would be fitted.

Our Company has always had a policy to dispose of waste responsibly from any of our jobs. This includes recycling metals, cardboard and plastics. IT DOES NOT INCLUDE PUTTING THE BOILER UP ON DONE DEAL THAT NIGHT.

There is a reason why the OP was able to refer to us as a reputable Company as we do top quality work and not a rush job where you would have call backs etc, which is reflected in the price. Also just to note its a quote so if the quoted amount of time was not used it would not be charged for and on the flip side if job went over the specified time for some reason this would not be charged for.

I also want to note that this job has vat included at 23% due to the 2/3rd rule from Revenue. Most installers are charging 13.5% which is illegal and if they are audited by Revenue they may have a hugh bill on their hands.

To the OP as with any quotation there is negotiation room. Please feel free to contact us with any questions you may have.
Regards

Neil

Everyone here including myself commented on the information the op gave.on my own behalf I said that the labour price was about right for the time stated I thought the materials were abut rough for the parts listed in fortunately this is what can happen on a public forum with everybody throwing in their tuppence worth I also was ridiculed here as being very expensive it's not nice but unfortunately that's the way on boards.ie

TPM

kanji wrote: »

Its dissapointing to be branded a rip off merchant by my peers.
Its doubly dissapointing to be branded a rip off merchant when the full facts were not furnished and nobody thought to ask for the full facts.

The OP was furnished with 2 quotations to install a high efficiency grant vortex 50/90 oil boiler.
The first quotation was to a full SEAI specification. The issue with this was the most convienent path that I could find for cableing between the hotpress and the boiler was through trunking at high level through 3 rooms underneath coving.
As this could be described as an eyesore at best I also gave the above quotation which includes mechanical controls ie thermostatic cylinder valve and thermostatic radiator valves.

As stated in the thread fitting a high efficiency boiler without any controls is a complete waste of time but unfortunatley the OP failed to mention that these would be fitted.

Our Company has always had a policy to dispose of waste responsibly from any of our jobs. This includes recycling metals, cardboard and plastics. IT DOES NOT INCLUDE PUTTING THE BOILER UP ON DONE DEAL THAT NIGHT.

There is a reason why the OP was able to refer to us as a reputable Company as we do top quality work and not a rush job where you would have call backs etc, which is reflected in the price. Also just to note its a quote so if the quoted amount of time was not used it would not be charged for and on the flip side if job went over the specified time for some reason this would not be charged for.

I also want to note that this job has vat included at 23% due to the 2/3rd rule from Revenue. Most installers are charging 13.5% which is illegal and if they are audited by Revenue they may have a hugh bill on their hands.

To the OP as with any quotation there is negotiation room. Please feel free to contact us with any questions you may have.
Regards

Neil

Yes I posted that I thought the price was high to fit a vortex boiler, circulating pump and a time clock with out zoning, as the op indicated and I still stand by that. I did ask if the quote was just for the boiler install because I did think the price didnt match the work outlined

You have just provided information which completely changes the amount of work included in the quote. not to mention the time yo have put in already, quoting at least twice on this job.

This is the disadvantage of a public forum and part or the reason people say to be careful of what you read on a public forum, peoples posts are their opinion and may not be reliable, tough on the other hand you have shown the advantage of a public forum by being in the position to clear up the information relevant to the topic

kanji

kanji wrote: »

Its dissapointing to be branded a rip off merchant by my peers.
Neil

Neil, i'v seen the quality of your work and I would be happy to recommend you to anyone;).

shane0007 wrote: »

Keep Vaseline to hand with that one. I would be cheaper than that will full heating controls to SEAI standards and you would qualify for grant.
3 days! How long will they be admiring their lovely work or will that time be spent counting?

Just out of interest Shane did you get to ask Neil about how he likes to spend his time on a job :pac::pac: and offering to under cut Neil in price as well:eek: harsh.

shane0007

gary71 wrote: »

Just out of interest Shane did you get to ask Neil about how he likes to spend his time on a job :pac::pac: and offering to under cut Neil in price as well:eek: harsh.

That is a bit unfair, as was the OP's original post. He made out it was just a boiler swap over, new pump and a single channel timeclock. For this works, €4,100 is excessive and I stand by my comment for that, however, it now turns out that the quote was for much more.
For a stright forward boiler swap over, 3 days for 2 men would also be very excessive. But not excessive for a lot more work.
I am the first person to sing Neil's praises as I am all too aware of the quality of his work. In fact, I PM'd the OP offering to have a look at the installation or indeed I offered to highly recommend an installer in Laois. Guess who I was recommending? Now that would have been fun if I had of sent Neil back to look at it again!
I am a very straight shooter in everything I do and if was wrong in this thread, I apologise to Neil but I done so based upon the information given by the OP.

DGOBS

I too can vouch for Neil, and feel he is being unjustly framed here.
I also took note, the OP has disappeared for the last few days as the real situation as come to light.

jimjimt

Some things just never change whys does it have always have to be a race to the bottom on being the cheapest.
Do you not have respect for yourself and the profession you are in ? And the responsibilities you take on.

That is why I do not bother with Seai installations. Get more for changing a few taps and a rad.

I learn about the 2/3 revenue rule years ago with Stanley cookers were in fashion and the balance of labour and goods.

So hands up who is written out a cheque and forwarded it to the big man in Limerick ?

Darwin

I haven't disappeared anywhere. I was given a quotation, I asked for advice on that quotation, I queried the labour cost and I didn't name the company. I am far from an expert on heating and plumbing matters and that is why I posted here. So what's your problem?

DGOBS wrote: »

I too can vouch for Neil, and feel he is being unjustly framed here.
I also took note, the OP has disappeared for the last few days as the real situation as come to light.

DGOBS

My problem is, you haven't so much as peeped (in the last 4 days!) when it has become that your original post was so inaccurate, and you had received 2 quotations based on differing levels of work.
But would seem you gave us the highest priced quoted, yet listed the lowest level of works!

Darwin

Incorrect. There were two different quotations, the more expensive quotation was the full SEAI install and I didn't want to confuse matters by listing both. I also listed the most expensive items on the bill of materials - for example, the quotation lists ONE as in 1 thermostatic cylinder valve and ONE radiator valve listed which came to €22 approx excluding VAT because I thought it was irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Maybe it takes a lot of time/work to fit such a thermostatic valve, I don't know.

EDIT: It is possible there is an error in the quotation in the number of valves required ( I would imagine 1 per radiator makes more sense). At any rate I think this thread has run its course and I am going to contact Neil to further discuss the quote and take it from there.

kanji

Hi, just to confirm, there is an error on the quotation re the number of trv's. There would indeed be 1 per radiator fitted

I also think that this thread has run it's course but glad to see that darwin has responded and hopefully has seen that my company is not out to rip anybody off.

Regards
Neil

shane0007

jimjimt wrote: »

Some things just never change whys does it have always have to be a race to the bottom on being the cheapest.
Do you not have respect for yourself and the profession you are in ? And the responsibilities you take on.

What do you mean by that statement/question and who is it directed at?

jimjimt

It is a general statement and not directed at any individual.

JohnnieK

Some upgrades just economically can't be done. I think people need to realize this. It's not for everyone.