Reason for lentition in nouns

Stayfrosty2

Hi everyone,
hoping someone can help me with this.
I've studied Irish for quite a few years and am currently preparing my own grammar units for use in school when I teach.

I've become obsessed with the notion of lentition or aspiration (whatever its called) in nouns.
I'm simply talking about when you put the article in front of a noun
eg.
fuinneog - an fhuinneog
sráid - an tsráid

I understand that they change, and the rules for masculine and feminine.
I just cant get my head around why they change.

I've researched it online and cannot seem to find a simple reason for aspiration.
I know that it is to make the consonant sound weaker? or more sonorous?
in that I know the change comes in order to change the sound.

But why must the sound change at all?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Gumbi

Stayfrosty2 wrote: »

Hi everyone,
hoping someone can help me with this.
I've studied Irish for quite a few years and am currently preparing my own grammar units for use in school when I teach.

I've become obsessed with the notion of lentition or aspiration (whatever its called) in nouns.
I'm simply talking about when you put the article in front of a noun
eg.
fuinneog - an fhuinneog
sráid - an tsráid

I understand that they change, and the rules for masculine and feminine.
I just cant get my head around why they change.

I've researched it online and cannot seem to find a simple reason for aspiration.
I know that it is to make the consonant sound weaker? or more sonorous?
in that I know the change comes in order to change the sound.

But why must the sound change at all?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This might be helpful http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenition

Stayfrosty2

Gumbi wrote: »

This might be helpful http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenition

Thanks, I had already read this a few times, so it means that a h is added to make the consonant sound softer?
But why do we need to make it softer/weaker?

P. Breathnach

As a general rule, people did not get together to design a language. Languages developed over thousands of years, and most of the development happened before recorded history. So the answer to your question is largely unknowable - although scholars might be able to make some intelligent speculations.

You can find some parallels between Goidelic languages (incuding Irish) and Brythonic languages, for example:
Welsh: mawr/fawr
Breton: bihan/vihan.

From this I (a non-scholar) conclude that the pattern is quite ancient.

An Sionnach Glic

P. Breathnach wrote: »

As a general rule, people did not get together to design a language. Languages developed over thousands of years, and most of the development happened before recorded history. So the answer to your question is largely unknowable - although scholars might be able to make some intelligent speculations.

You can find some parallels between Goidelic languages (incuding Irish) and Brythonic languages, for example:
Welsh: mawr/fawr
Breton: bihan/vihan.

From this I (a non-scholar) conclude that the pattern is quite ancient.

I'd add to that only to say that generally you can assume that a particular grammatical feature occurs and has evolved in any language to either make the flow of speech easier (all living languages evolve towards simplicity) or to avoid potential confusion about persons or quantities being discussed that might occur without it. For example, one that springs to mind is the use of the séimhiú to indicate possession, since the word for 'his/her' is the same in Irish.

A theach - his house
A teach - her house.

Without the séimhiú, it would not be clear what type of person is being discussed in such a situation.

deirdremf

Stayfrosty2 wrote: »

Hi everyone,
hoping someone can help me with this.
I've studied Irish for quite a few years and am currently preparing my own grammar units for use in school when I teach.

I've become obsessed with the notion of lentition or aspiration (whatever its called) in nouns.
I'm simply talking about when you put the article in front of a noun
eg.
fuinneog - an fhuinneog
sráid - an tsráid

I understand that they change, and the rules for masculine and feminine.
I just cant get my head around why they change.

I've researched it online and cannot seem to find a simple reason for aspiration.
I know that it is to make the consonant sound weaker? or more sonorous?
in that I know the change comes in order to change the sound.

But why must the sound change at all?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'll begin with "an tsráid", as it's easy.
The "t" is actually part of the article, in old Irish it used to be written "ind" IIRC (female gender, nominative case).
The male gender, genitive case was similar, so "s" takes a "t" in that case too. "teach an tsagairt"

The séimhiú is slightly more complicated, but I think in general it came about at an older stage of the language where the consonant in question fell between 2 vowels. For whatever reason, the consonant became softened as a result.
If you know Spanish, Basque or Catalan, this also happens to a small number of consonants, although it is not shown in writing.
e.g. in Spanish, "pretty girl" is "chica guapa"
the "g" falls between the final "a" in "chica" and the "u" in "guapa", and so there is a séimhiú on it! The same happens to "b" in Spanish, and "d" also, but their séimhiú on "d" is different from Irish - it's like the "th" in "the" or "this" (as pronounced by English people, as most Irish people don't use the sound at all!!

The urú came about in a similar way, except that the previous word used to end in an "n". This "n" coalesced with the following consonant and became something else. The "n" still appears before vowels "d" and "g".
It is usually still written attached to the article in Scottish Gaelic:
e.g.
Gaeilge:
seolta na mbád
Gàidhlig:
seolta nam bàta
(I don't claim my Scotish Gaelic version is correct, this is for illustrative purposes only!)

An Sionnach Glic

deirdremf wrote: »

I'll begin with "an tsráid", as it's easy.
The "t" is actually part of the article, in old Irish it used to be written "ind" IIRC (female gender, nominative case).
The male gender, genitive case was similar, so "s" takes a "t" in that case too. "teach an tsagairt"

The séimhiú is slightly more complicated, but I think in general it came about at an older stage of the language where the consonant in question fell between 2 vowels. For whatever reason, the consonant became softened as a result.
If you know Spanish, Basque or Catalan, this also happens to a small number of consonants, although it is not shown in writing.
e.g. in Spanish, "pretty girl" is "chica guapa"
the "g" falls between the final "a" in "chica" and the "u" in "guapa", and so there is a séimhiú on it! The same happens to "b" in Spanish, and "d" also, but their séimhiú on "d" is different from Irish - it's like the "th" in "the" or "this" (as pronounced by English people, as most Irish people don't use the sound at all!!

The urú came about in a similar way, except that the previous word used to end in an "n". This "n" coalesced with the following consonant and became something else. The "n" still appears before vowels "d" and "g".
It is usually still written attached to the article in Scottish Gaelic:
e.g.
Gaeilge:
seolta na mbád
Gàidhlig:
seolta nam bàta
(I don't claim my Scotish Gaelic version is correct, this is for illustrative purposes only!)

Great post! Interesting, informative and well-explained. Thanks, Deirdremf.