Laser eye surgery recovery- sick or annual leave

NewApproach

Hi, does anyone know whether the recovery time required after getting laser eye surgery done counts as sick or annual leave? Or is it completely employer dependant?

Thanks

ibebanging

NewApproach wrote: »

Hi, does anyone know whether the recovery time required after getting laser eye surgery done counts as sick or annual leave? Or is it completely employer dependant?

Thanks

Just give in a medical certificate from a doctor.

NewApproach

I will be issued with medical cert, but I'll need to book the time off in advance as it's only fair to them. What I'm wondering is will the days I am out for be deducted from my annual leave days for the year?

Owryan

When i had to go into hospital for a wee operation i booked the days off and they were taken from my leave. Afterwards i got a cert from my gp to cover the same few days and my days were returned to me.

You should be able to do the same.

Irish_Elect_Eng

To be perfectly honest, elective procedures should be taken from Annual leave, unless your contract states otherwise.

But most folks would just say that they were going for an OP and have the doctor make out a note for "post operative recovery"

NewApproach

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

To be perfectly honest, elective procedures should be taken from Annual leave, unless your contract states otherwise.

But most folks would just say that they were going for an OP and have the doctor make out a note for "post operative recovery"

They might notice the lack of glasses after a while

I think I will just book the time off and say it a couple of days before hand to see how best to treat it.

amtc

I took mine as A/L - you're not sick and it's pre-scheduled.

bbam

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

To be perfectly honest, elective procedures should be taken from Annual leave, unless your contract states otherwise.

But most folks would just say that they were going for an OP and have the doctor make out a note for "post operative recovery"

amtc wrote: »

I took mine as A/L - you're not sick and it's pre-scheduled.

Absolutely..
Its your decision to have this done, your scheduling it and are aware well in advance... This is Annual leave and I wouldn't let an employee take it otherwise.. A doctors cert would mean little in this case, its still AL.

Pythia

I took mine as annual leave since it was elective and not medically necessary.

Mr. Loverman

I had an elective septoplasty about two years ago.

I spoke to my manager about it and she spoke to the HR person. They agreed I could take two weeks off work as paid sick leave.

Technically it was elective so technically I should have probably used holidays for it, but I was a good employee and it was a large company (multi-national) so they were nice and let me take paid sick leave.

However if they had said "sorry, you need to use holidays for elective procedures" I would have accepted this as reasonable.

mikemac1

I took it as sick leave

Cleared it with HR in advance

If they insisted annual leave it would have been fair enough but I tried for sick leave and got it

You don't ask you don't get OP

RacoonQueen

Depends really. If poor eyesight is effecting your work in some way, should you be entitled to sick pay?

If a woman elects to get a breast reduction due to having back problems, does she qualify for sick leave, when in the long run the surgery reduces her need for sick leave?

In my last job I remember someone taking sick leave, she got one eye done at a time and got two lots of sick leave.

Mr. Loverman

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Depends really. If poor eyesight is effecting your work in some way, should you be entitled to sick pay?

If a woman elects to get a breast reduction due to having back problems, does she qualify for sick leave, when in the long run the surgery reduces her need for sick leave?

In my last job I remember someone taking sick leave, she got one eye done at a time and got two lots of sick leave.

Well I think it comes down to elective surgery not being urgent so it can be scheduled for a later date when the employee has holidays booked...

I would think most larger companies would be willing to allow the employee use sick leave, but that is a nicety.

tatli_lokma

yes, but where do you draw the line? Fair enough, perhaps OP should take the day of the procedure as AL - as it is elective, but as far as the recovery time goes, they are unfit for work. There is no arguing with that - the fact that it is in a way self inflicted is not the issue.
What would you say to someone who goes hill walking at the weekend or plays football and injured their foot as a result? would you tell them to take their certified sick time as AL because they elected to play football?

I think the decision has to come down to the employee - if you think you will be outstaying your welcome so to speak by asking for the time off as paid sick leave, then just take it as AL and don't even mention it. If you have already had a lot of sick leave, then say nowt. If however you have a good relationship with your boss, are a proven good worker with a good record, and haven't taken sick leave in a long time or rarely do, then I would chat with them and ask their advice. But if you do take it as AL, remember there might be complications which arise from it, so it would probably be wise to schedule your AL around a weekend to give you maximum recovery time.

But legally, if a doctor certifies you as unfit for work, then you are unfit for work and your employer can't insist you take this time as AL - if they have an issue with the legitimacy of your claim, they can ask you see their doctor, but other than that they can't refuse you the leave as sick if it is certified.

I suppose its all about give and take.

The Aul Switcharoo

Annual Leave imo

It is pre-scheduled and it is your own option to do the surgery. Also in fairness you should be well recovered in [DELETED BY MODERATOR]. Depending on the time the op is at you could even do a half day before the op.

I have had it done before and I was on the golf course the next day. Eyes a bit sore but nothing much. Unless you have [DELETED BY MODERATOR].


Mod note: deleted some bits as they were bordering on medical advice. Unless you are a doctor who is treating the OP, then please don't offer specific advice - you're not qualified, and it might get boards.ie in trouble.

Mrs OBumble

Almost all surgery is elective - meaning that it can put put off for "a while" and you won't die. Even things like fixing broken ankles can be delayed if someone more urgent comes along.

It's possible to distinguish between elective and cosmetic ... but as someone said, even there, there can be cases where it will make you healthier.

IMHO - it all comes down to what the employer thinks, and how much the impairment that you are getting the surgery for affects your work.

gandalf

I took mine as annual leave.

I could do my job with glasses before the procedure and it didn't effect me beyond having to where glasses.

If you are getting the procedure because your eyesight is effecting how you do your job then fair enough investigate the sick leave option but for the majority it is a procedure to stop using glasses and imho opinion then it is taken as annual leave.

tatli_lokma

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Almost all surgery is elective - meaning that it can put put off for "a while" and you won't die. Even things like fixing broken ankles can be delayed if someone more urgent comes along.

It's possible to distinguish between elective and cosmetic ... but as someone said, even there, there can be cases where it will make you healthier.

IMHO - it all comes down to what the employer thinks, and how much the impairment that you are getting the surgery for affects your work.

totally agree. There are very few surgeries which are not elective to a degree - unless you are (god forbid) carted into A&E and need emergency surgery to save your life, everything else is pre-scheduled and even for some things you would consider "serious" are elective. As Mrs OBumble says - not having it won't kill you, it will just make your quality of life lower.

So as a manager, I personally would have no problem giving the recovery time as sick leave. I don't see it as any different to any other medical procedure - you need to have it done (whether it be for cosmetic or medical reasons is your own business), you have a medical practicioner confirming that you are unfit for work for these days - not an issue for me. Sick leave is fine (but this carries the proviso that you are not someone who takes the p!ss when it comes to sick leave and also that you work with me and schedule it for a time that causes the least disruption to the office and other staff). But maybe I'm just extra nice!

Mr. Loverman

I disagree that "elective" is hard to define. It's a real medical term and it means "not urgent nor emergency surgery".

Based on this definition, laser eye surgery most definitely is elective as you can wear glasses. Just like my septoplasty was elective as I could have used those nose band things to help me breath when I am sleeping.

I am not saying the employers should be cut-throat about giving sick days; I am saying there is a medical definition of elective and non-elective so it's not really open to interpretation.

tatli_lokma

Neither myself or Mrs OBumble said that "elective" is hard to define. We said just as you did - that elective = non emergency, therefore can be scheduled and in reality you could probably live without having it. So, as in my example, other than arriving into A&E in dire need of a livesaving emergency operation, all surgical procedures are to a degree elective because they can be planned, and even you can decide not to have them (doing so might shorten your life, but its still something you "elect" to do or not as the case may be).

My point is that whether a procedure is elective or emergency, it doesn't change the fact that following it, you may well be unfit for work.

We pay sick leave where I work, and I would still agree to give sick leave for laser eye surgery. I can't understand at all why an employer who doesn't pay sick leave would refuse you to take it as sick leave - it costs them nothing anyway. The way I see it, if the Social welfare will accept it as grounds for illness benefit (which they would if you were out of work for more than 3 days) then an employer should accept it.

Mr. Loverman

In fairness Little Ted you did kind of say it is hard to define. Have a look at your post from page 1:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81939368&postcount=14

Regardless, I don't want to argue with you.

tatli_lokma

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

In fairness Little Ted you did kind of say it is hard to define. Have a look at your post from page 1:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81939368&postcount=14

Regardless, I don't want to argue with you.

I think you miss the point of my post. Nowhere in that post did I say it was hard to define. I asked, where do you draw the line? Different thing.

Mr. Loverman

Little Ted wrote: »

I think you miss the point of my post. Nowhere in that post did I say it was hard to define. I asked, where do you draw the line? Different thing.

"Where do you draw the line" and "hard to define" mean basically the same thing.

But it's alright, I can see we now have a similar opinion on the matter.

tony81

Your company probably has a procedure, e.g. they might give you a half day Friday to get the surgery and you'll have the weekend to recover. If you need longer off work, well either A.L (as you can still have rest and relaxation despite not being able to stare at a computer screen), or if there is a complication and you are genuinely sick or in hospital it would be sick leave.

tatli_lokma

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

"Where do you draw the line" and "hard to define" mean basically the same thing.

But it's alright, I can see we now have a similar opinion on the matter.

Not to me! But probably I'm not explaining it clearly enough. When I say 'where to draw the line' what I am asking is, if as an employer you tell Mary she can't take time off on sick leave for laser eye surgery, then what criteria do you decide on as being fair as to what consitutes sick leave and what doesn't? My comment as to where to draw the line is refering to what is fair, as opposed to what is elective. Is it fair to say no to Mary, but yes to John because he sprained his ankle playing football at the weekend? Is it fair to say yes to Mary but no to Martha who wants time off for a boob job? That is where I am coming from in the whole 'where to draw the line' area.

Myown personal belief is that if something results in you being unfit for work, then it is sick leave. The hows and whys and wherefores regarding how you got sick is not a concern at this stage - the fact that a doctor says you are medically not fit to be at work is all that is relevant.

Further on from that, if you think that John's football results in him needing a lot of time off work, then you might decide that his contant sick leave requires investigation and possible action in the form of a disciplinary, and you can take that action if you wish. Or if you think that someone's health condition means they are no longer fit to do the job they were employed for, then you can address that.

But in my mind they are two distinct steps. I would not refuse someone sick leave if they are certified unfit to come to work. Would I take it further if sick leave was regular or affecting their work? yes most definitely. Would I ask them to see a company doctor if I thought they were swinging the lead and had an overly helpful GP? again, most definitely. But at the first instance I am not a doctor, so I won't be the one deciding if someone is 'sick enough'.

slave1

I had elective surgery earlier in the year, I was in pain and needed to get it sorted, I went to company doctor with my specialist letter and then to my boss.
Boss wanted me to postpone, company doctor backed me up, I ended up out for 4 weeks on sick leave.
I never discussed the nature of the problem with my boss - only with the company doctor - as I think that bosses suddenly become medical experts when they find out what's wrong instead of focusing of the long term well being of the employee.

Mr. Loverman

Little Ted - I agree.

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