What options do I have?

GRMA

Right, currently I'm in the final year of my degree and unfortunately I don't like it and have no interest in pursuing a career in this area (Law).

I'd love to study history.

Ideally I'd hope to do a masters in it but I'm not altogether confident I'll get high enough results.

In the case that I don't, what options do I have to study history as a postgrad?

Do I have to do another 3/4 year course to get a bachelors in history and then do a masters in it? Or is there a year or two course I can do and then do a masters in it?

Thanks

kkumk

Sorry to hear you don't like Law, I've always wondered whether I should have done it or not, but I'm pretty glad I stuck with history.

You should apply for a Masters anyway even if you don't think you've got good enough results. Depending on the Uni, they'll take students with low 2.1's or even 2.2's. But if you really don't think you'll get in, this is another option: http://www.ucd.ie/historyarchives/graduateprogrammes/graduatediplomainhistory/

It's UCD's Graduate Diploma in History, basically aimed at those with no background in History or those who have been out of college for a while. The great thing is, if you do well enough in the first semester, you can move into the MA programme in January if you want. It will mean an extra few months (the GradDip runs until June, the MA until August) so that you can write up a thesis, but I think it's a great way to leave your options open.

The only thing I would say is that you have to really make sure History is something you want to do. I wouldn't recommend anyone get into it just for the sake of it or because they have a vague interest in it. Jobs are few and far between, especially if you want to lecture or be an academic. If you have the time and the money at your disposal, by all means fire ahead and do a GradDip/MA. But remember, you've got a pretty good degree as it is, and you should probably think about what the History MA will add to it.

GRMA

I really love history, got an A1 in the leaving, write articles etc on it.

I should have done it in college but my parents wanted me to do law, I thought I'd like it too and get a good career out of it but it's not for me really, I'm sticking it out though of course!

It's something I can fall back on in the future if I want, I might feel differently about Law in a few years, but now I want to study something I'm passionate about.

What I really want to do is the masters in trinity where I can elect to do modern Irish history (1798 etc).

Thanks for your reply, it seems that even if I don't get the 2.1 there are alternative routes I can go down to study history and get a masters in it down the road.

kkumk

I have no doubt that you love history, so do the majority of people who chose to do it in college. My point is that as someone who just graduated from a BA History and is currently doing an MA History, I now realise that no matter how much you love something it doesn't magically create jobs.
Not trying to be smart or anything, it's just something I wish someone had told me a few years ago.

Once you complete an MA in History, there isn't going to be a whole lot of jobs that you will be any more qualified for than you are with a BCL. In my opinion, the only reason someone should do an MA in History, (keeping future career in mind & leaving aside those who just love it and want to do it for the craic) is if they intend to carry on and do a PhD and then a PostDoc etc etc.
Bearing this in mind, you really need to look at the amount of funding available for PhD's and the amount of Postdoctoral Fellowships around at the moment. There is little to none in Ireland. The previous funding body for Arts and Humanities, the IRCHSS, has been absorbed into the IRCSET, meaning that instead of just competing for funding against humanities projects, we now have to compete against science and engineering type ones as well.

Having talked to PhD students, PostDocs and lecturers in my own institution, they themselves seem to think the picture is pretty bleak, and many just have 1 year contracts despite the fact that they have great experience and have been lecturing for years and are publishing regularly.

Having said all of this, I, for some reason, am still pursuing this career path. So I'm not trying to tell you not to, more just that you might think that all this future planning and looking ahead is a bit irrelevant at this stage, but it's such an important thing to consider before you spend a couple of grand on an MA that might not advance your career at all.

Again, you could just be doing it for the craic and perhaps aren't thinking about pursuing a career in History, so then just disregard everything I've said

gutenberg

kkumk wrote: »

I have no doubt that you love history, so do the majority of people who chose to do it in college. My point is that as someone who just graduated from a BA History and is currently doing an MA History, I now realise that no matter how much you love something it doesn't magically create jobs.
Not trying to be smart or anything, it's just something I wish someone had told me a few years ago.

Once you complete an MA in History, there isn't going to be a whole lot of jobs that you will be any more qualified for than you are with a BCL. In my opinion, the only reason someone should do an MA in History, (keeping future career in mind & leaving aside those who just love it and want to do it for the craic) is if they intend to carry on and do a PhD and then a PostDoc etc etc.
Bearing this in mind, you really need to look at the amount of funding available for PhD's and the amount of Postdoctoral Fellowships around at the moment. There is little to none in Ireland. The previous funding body for Arts and Humanities, the IRCHSS, has been absorbed into the IRCSET, meaning that instead of just competing for funding against humanities projects, we now have to compete against science and engineering type ones as well.

Having talked to PhD students, PostDocs and lecturers in my own institution, they themselves seem to think the picture is pretty bleak, and many just have 1 year contracts despite the fact that they have great experience and have been lecturing for years and are publishing regularly.

Having said all of this, I, for some reason, am still pursuing this career path. So I'm not trying to tell you not to, more just that you might think that all this future planning and looking ahead is a bit irrelevant at this stage, but it's such an important thing to consider before you spend a couple of grand on an MA that might not advance your career at all.

Again, you could just be doing it for the craic and perhaps aren't thinking about pursuing a career in History, so then just disregard everything I've said

Where are you getting this from? Yes, IRCHSS & IRCSET have merged into one Research Council, but they are still running their own separate competitions for postgraduate funding, so you aren't competing with scientists or engineers; in addition, I applied for & got an IRCHSS studentship this year and the number awarded for 2012-2013 was actually a little above what was awarded the previous year, so at the moment the situation for arts & humanities funding is ok (far from ideal of course!). Of course, the fear at the moment is that eventually there will be some kind of merger of the postgrad competitions, or that the science part of the budget will gradually start to eat into the humanities end, but at the moment there is no indication of that happening.

I do however agree with you that the OP should be careful about studying history just because (s)he loves it, and without any clear idea of what (s)he wants to afterwards. Because you are right, the situation for academic jobs in particular is weak. However, if the OP has a good idea of what they might like to pursue afterwards, and how a History MA/PGDip would help, then by all means go ahead, join the history family

Rodin

kkumk wrote: »

I have no doubt that you love history, so do the majority of people who chose to do it in college. My point is that as someone who just graduated from a BA History and is currently doing an MA History, I now realise that no matter how much you love something it doesn't magically create jobs.
Not trying to be smart or anything, it's just something I wish someone had told me a few years ago.

Once you complete an MA in History, there isn't going to be a whole lot of jobs that you will be any more qualified for than you are with a BCL. In my opinion, the only reason someone should do an MA in History, (keeping future career in mind & leaving aside those who just love it and want to do it for the craic) is if they intend to carry on and do a PhD and then a PostDoc etc etc.
Bearing this in mind, you really need to look at the amount of funding available for PhD's and the amount of Postdoctoral Fellowships around at the moment. There is little to none in Ireland. The previous funding body for Arts and Humanities, the IRCHSS, has been absorbed into the IRCSET, meaning that instead of just competing for funding against humanities projects, we now have to compete against science and engineering type ones as well.

Having talked to PhD students, PostDocs and lecturers in my own institution, they themselves seem to think the picture is pretty bleak, and many just have 1 year contracts despite the fact that they have great experience and have been lecturing for years and are publishing regularly.

Having said all of this, I, for some reason, am still pursuing this career path. So I'm not trying to tell you not to, more just that you might think that all this future planning and looking ahead is a bit irrelevant at this stage, but it's such an important thing to consider before you spend a couple of grand on an MA that might not advance your career at all.

Again, you could just be doing it for the craic and perhaps aren't thinking about pursuing a career in History, so then just disregard everything I've said

Honestly? You'd need to be told that?

GRMA

I'm not overly worried about career prospects as if it doesn't work out I have the law to fall back on.

gutenberg

GRMA wrote: »

I'm not overly worried about career prospects as if it doesn't work out I have the law to fall back on.

But you said in your original post that you have zero interest in pursuing the law? Besides, if only it were that easy. There are loads of law grads out of work at the moment, and it's so competitive for entry to the bar/as a solicitor...

kkumk

gutenberg wrote: »

Where are you getting this from? Yes, IRCHSS & IRCSET have merged into one Research Council, but they are still running their own separate competitions for postgraduate funding, so you aren't competing with scientists or engineers; in addition, I applied for & got an IRCHSS studentship this year and the number awarded for 2012-2013 was actually a little above what was awarded the previous year, so at the moment the situation for arts & humanities funding is ok (far from ideal of course!). Of course, the fear at the moment is that eventually there will be some kind of merger of the postgrad competitions, or that the science part of the budget will gradually start to eat into the humanities end, but at the moment there is no indication of that happening.

I do however agree with you that the OP should be careful about studying history just because (s)he loves it, and without any clear idea of what (s)he wants to afterwards. Because you are right, the situation for academic jobs in particular is weak. However, if the OP has a good idea of what they might like to pursue afterwards, and how a History MA/PGDip would help, then by all means go ahead, join the history family

Sorry, right you are! I was told that by two PhD students complaining about the lack of funding, I should have checked myself on the IRCSET website before posting but thought they would know more about it than I do. :rolleyes:

gutenberg

kkumk wrote: »

Sorry, right you are! I was told that by two PhD students complaining about the lack of funding, I should have checked myself on the IRCSET website before posting but thought they would know more about it than I do. :rolleyes:

Two arts & humanities students? 'Cos IRCHSS funding is & always was ridiculously competitive. I think this year, even with the slightly raised numbers, the success rate was something like 16% :eek:

Of course there is a concern about funding in the future, and how it will be distributed between the arts/humanities & science, but for the moment it seems as though competitions are proceeding as they did under the two separate research councils.

GRMA

gutenberg wrote: »

But you said in your original post that you have zero interest in pursuing the law? Besides, if only it were that easy. There are loads of law grads out of work at the moment, and it's so competitive for entry to the bar/as a solicitor...

Half of law grads go on to work at things other than becoming a barrister or solicitor. I'm not particularly worried if I don't get a job in the history sphere. I have other options.

I appreciate what you are saying but I fail to see it's relevance to my original question, which was what options I have to study history should I fail to get high enough grades for a masters.

gutenberg

Fair enough. To be honest, a lot of history postgrads are not massively oversubscribed, so if you get half-decent grades then you probably will stand a good chance; people coming in from law undergrads aren't hugely uncommon, and you can demonstrate your interest via your extracurricular stuff. If you're really concerned though, you could contact the directors of courses that you're interested in & ask if there is a lowest boundary beyond which they will not make offers? As kkumk said, some courses will even take people with 2.2s, largely due to the aforesaid lack of over-subscribedness. The UCD diploma might be a good back-up; they don't specify a grade requirement, which suggests they're pretty lenient; in the description of the course, it even says that it is, among other things, for people who didn't achieve 'their full potential' in their undergrad degree, and want a top-up qualification. However, apparently if you were interested in upgrading to the MA from the PGDip, it says that you cannot transfer into the Modern Irish History stream since it is relatively high-demand, which I guess could be a problem given where your interests lie. That being said, you could just complete the Dip & then apply to a Modern Irish History master's with that in hand, though that would lengthen the time taken to get the qualification to two years effectively.

Otherwise, if none of those options work, I suppose you'd be back looking at studying history to bachelors degree level?