Will my legs ever get used to concrete running?

iancairns

Hi,

I completed my first marathon this year in 3hrs 31mins.

My training for this was 1x 6 mile a week and a longer 13-20mile run during weekend in Phoenix Park.

The reason I choose this training was down to my neverending struggles with shin pains on concrete.

My twice a week running for marathon was fine tho, no shin pains whatsoever. Running on Tarmac in Phoenix park clearly helped.

Since the nights have shortened again, I've decided to try running on streets of Dublin again.

I did an 8.5mile run on Tuesday morning at 7:30 mile pace and did another one this morning at 8mile pace.

Today's run I immediately felt that concrete vibration sensation you get while running on it. I know if I continue to run on it Legs will feel worse.

I've been told I've a good technique, basically midfoot and I run with kinvaras. Love to bits!

I really want to up weekly mileage as it seems to be the way to improve marathon times. 20mile weeks like last year not good enough.

I don't want to have to buy chunky shoes, I'm not even sure that's the problem.

Surely after a years running my shins would be able to take it?

I hate running on concrete but it's my only option?

Anyone have some advice?

Thanks!

Ian

RayCun

Upping weekly mileage - you're doing it wrong.

You're running at marathon pace and faster, and longer runs than you did midweek before the marathon. Slow your runs down, and add more, shorter runs to your schedule. Monday - 5 mile, Wednesday - 5 mile, Friday - 5 mile, Saturday 10 mile - now all your runs are easier, but you're running a lot more.

Also - you may be a lovely smooth midfoot lander when you're fresh, or doing an easy demonstration jog, but your form might be worse when you're tired, and maybe that's why your feet are smacking the ground.

Where do you live, and when can you run? I'm sure there are tarmac and trail routes people can suggest for you.

iancairns

I live in Sundrive near Kimmage. Pretty sure there are no Tarmac routes nearby. Doubt my form dips that much.

I'm convinced I'm just susceptible to it more than others.

Shins shouldn't be hurting just after 2 runs.

RayCun

The difference between concrete and tarmac is not so great that 8 miles on concrete will cause problems when 16 miles on tarmac didn't. (or the 26 miles you ran in the marathon) Especially not if your running technique is as good as you've been told.

Why not try running slower, more often? Or run in Eamonn Ceannt park? Dublin striders train in there, afaik, running on the cycle track and (I presume) the park paths.

spurscormac

iancairns wrote: »

I live in Sundrive near Kimmage. Pretty sure there are no Tarmac routes nearby. Doubt my form dips that much.

I'm convinced I'm just susceptible to it more than others.

Shins shouldn't be hurting just after 2 runs.

You'd be surprised how much it could change over a run.
Take the advice offered - shorter more frequent & at a slower pace is definitely the way to go initially.
After a while you can introduce some interval or tempo sessions.

Krusty_Clown

Tymon Park is not that far away from you (~3km). Are you sure that your shin pain isn't caused by running in minimalist shoes all of the time? I wear Kinvaras too, but only wear them for faster sessions or runs (though other runners here have no problems with wearing them all of the time). How many miles have you done in the Kinvaras? Perhaps they are due for retirement?

iancairns

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Tymon Park is not that far away from you (~3km). Are you sure that your shin pain isn't caused by running in minimalist shoes all of the time? I wear Kinvaras too, but only wear them for faster sessions or runs (though other runners here have no problems with wearing them all of the time). How many miles have you done in the Kinvaras? Perhaps they are due for retirement?

Thanks for the speedy feedback guys.

My kinvaras are a year old this week I think. Clocked up about 400 miles on them.

Buying a new pair of shoes next week and was hoping to stick with the kinvaras.

IMO there's a huge difference between concrete and Tarmac.

Was regularly running 7:30min 13mile runs in Phoenix without the hint of a problem.

I can only assume maybe I ran to quick on Tuesday and suffered today because even after marathon my shins were fine.

I will try more regular slow runs so, do you think if I start with that and then slowly up the distance each time?

Basically my years targets are to break 40mins in 10km pb is 41mins and 3:15 marathon.

So will deffo need speed sessions to improve 10km time.

And It seems like to improve marathon time, I will need to clock up a lot more weekly mileage.

Thanks for tips

RayCun

You're running all your runs too fast. Your long run is only 30 seconds/mile slower than your 10k PB, and 30 seconds/mile faster than your marathon pace
It's a common mistake, you think you have to work hard all the time to improve. But to get faster, you have to run more - to build your aerobic base. And to run more, you have to run slower, so you can recover between runs without getting injured. If you run 5,5,5,10 in a week (for example), most of that should be slower than 8.30/mile, and if one of the runs is faster, do fast intervals - warm-up, fast for a bit,slow to recover, fast for a bit.
Best thing is,follow the plan in the DCM graduates thread. And take meno's advice to run slow.

iancairns

RayCun wrote: »

You're running all your runs too fast. Your long run is only 30 seconds/mile slower than your 10k PB, and 30 seconds/mile faster than your marathon pace
It's a common mistake, you think you have to work hard all the time to improve. But to get faster, you have to run more - to build your aerobic base. And to run more, you have to run slower, so you can recover between runs without getting injured. If you run 5,5,5,10 in a week (for example), most of that should be slower than 8.30/mile, and if one of the runs is faster, do fast intervals - warm-up, fast for a bit,slow to recover, fast for a bit.
Best thing is,follow the plan in the DCM graduates thread. And take meno's advice to run slow.

God 8:30miles will feel like I'm going at a snails pace.
I had a look at Meno's graduate thread.
Do you follow it exactly or do I add on a couple miles to it each night as weekly mileage seems slow?

Will try the slow running in the mean time!

RoyMcC

iancairns wrote: »

God 8:30miles will feel like I'm going at a snails pace.

:pac: If I were still in Dublin Ian we could go for a run and I'd show you what slow is. Ray is bang on and you should get your head around speed differentials and the reason for them.

RayCun

iancairns wrote: »

God 8:30miles will feel like I'm going at a snails pace.
I had a look at Meno's graduate thread.
Do you follow it exactly or do I add on a couple miles to it each night as weekly mileage seems slow?
Will try the slow running in the mean time!

It's something you have to force yourself to do at first, but after a while it comes naturally and you can switch down to an easy pace whenever you like.

If I'm reading meno's plan right, this week is 4, (session), 6.5, 2, 8-11 miles, so that's more than you've run before in a training week, no need for you to add extra miles.