another summons question

sections4and8

Hi, I was hoping I could pick your brains please.

I came home recently to an envelope with a harp on top. When I opened it, it was a letter from the district court saying that I'm due in court soon.

Ive no clue on legal terms and i have a few questions. it says that i - was acting in a matter contrary to the provisions of section 4 of the public order act and having been directed to leave the area immediately didn't comply with the guard & this is contrary to section 8 of the criminal justice act amended by section 22 of the intoxicating liquor act.

what happened in my words was i was really drunk, in an awful way, and i just remember coming around when i was put in the garda cell and thinking ive hit rock bottom.

the garda later said i was walking in the middle of the road.

as i say i dont remember but ive no doubt that its true and im going to plead guilty. looking back its a good thing they did pick me up or God knows what would of happened to me.

the thing is ive no idea what to expect in court & what the procedure is? ive never been in trouble before.

i know i wont go to prison, but i suppose my main concern is if Ill have a criminal record? have I one already? this is probably a stupid question but was i arrested that night?

say i want to go to the US or Australia or any country that asks about prior dealings with the police on a visa form, will i have to declare it? or even if id to get garda vetted for a job in future?

id a look over previous threads but with all the different sections, (4, 8 & 22) its hard to find one with the same combination.

thanks for reading this far.

cheers

coylemj

Your best bet is to engage a solicitor who appears frequently in that court, he/she will know the local scene and what the judges are like.

Based on what you've said, if you engage a solicitor, the most likely advice you'll get is to plead guilty and offer to make a contribution to the court poorbox in which case the judge will apply the probation act and you'll avoid a formal conviction.

Get a solicitor.

sections4and8

hi there coylemj, thanks for coming back to me.

the thing is i dont have the cash to employ a solicitor but seeing as im happy to plead guilty anyways i dont really know how he/she could change the outcome even if i did. like the facts are black and white as i see it, i could of caused an accident and its down to my own stupidity really.

as in if i believed i done nothing wrong id be down to FLAC first thing but unfortunately Im not:(

Peregrinus

Go down to FLAC anyway. What have you got to lose?

If you plead guilty, you will have a criminal record - a minor one, but a record nevertheless.

It may be possible to avoid this and get a conditional discharge, application of the Probation Act, something like this, if the prosecuting guard is agreeable. And as long as you didn't make too big a knob of yourself when you were arrested, he may well be agreeable.

Someone at FLAC will have the best sense of how to handle this - who you should approach and what you should say to them.

sections4and8

go on so, ill knock into FLAC with the summons next week n see what they have to say for themselves. Ill post back in case anyone else finds themselves in the same situation.

tbh i dont know how i was with him, i dont like the fact that it says i didnt comply with his directions.

im paranoid about going in and having a string of things read back to me of what happened that night - like a more serious post mortem after a night out with mates.

i doubt i gave him lip but u never know with drink.
i coudda come onto him either - that could go either way!

thanks again coylemj & Peregrinus

Milk & Honey

The first thing to do is apologise to the prosecuting garda. The second thing to do is go to the District Court where you will be appearing and watch similar cases. Save money for a poor box donation. It is most nlikely that free legal aid will be granted for a minor offence like this but a solicitor who does legal aid in that court may be prepared to act for a small fee. A solicitor who knows the judge will be better able to make a mitigation plea.
Appearing yourself and pleading guilty is all every well but it is possible to annoy a judge and also possible to avoid mentioning something that might reduce the penalty. Some go easier on students for example.

sections4and8

thanks m&h, i rang up a few times immediately after, but he wasn't at the phone.

ill put a few shillings away between now and then for the poor box.

im not gonna ask for a solicitor, thats just silly - you cant make a silk purse outta a sows ear etc.

twil be grand, im sure/hope.

iill wb what FLAC have to say, im sure its the same as yourselves.

cheers:)

MagicSean

A person who has never been untroubled before would be entitled to be considered for an adult caution. There's is also a fixed charge penalty available. It's unusual to see someone charged with both section 4 and 8 because if you were that drunk how can you be expected to follow a command.

If I were to find myself in that position I would probably write to the superintendent to ask if I could be considered for an adult caution or fixed charge penalty and have the proceedings struck out. But that's just me.

ResearchWill

MagicSean wrote: »

A person who has never been untroubled before would be entitled to be considered for an adult caution. There's is also a fixed charge penalty available. It's unusual to see someone charged with both section 4 and 8 because if you were that drunk how can you be expected to follow a command.

If I were to find myself in that position I would probably write to the superintendent to ask if I could be considered for an adult caution or fixed charge penalty and have the proceedings struck out. But that's just me.

It's not unusual to be charged with section 4 and 8, being pissed is no defense to not following instructions.

Pat Mustard

MagicSean wrote: »

If I were to find myself in that position I would probably write to the superintendent to ask if I could be considered for an adult caution or fixed charge penalty and have the proceedings struck out. But that's just me.

OP, if you intend following the above advice, it would be useful for you to have a solicitor to contact the Gardai on your behalf.

sections4and8 wrote: »

im not gonna ask for a solicitor, thats just silly - you cant make a silk purse outta a sows ear etc.

twil be grand, im sure/hope.

iill wb what FLAC have to say, im sure its the same as yourselves

For minor road traffic offences, there may be no major difficulty when people choose to represent themselves. In your case, it could be different. Having a solicitor represent you in court could possibly mean the difference between a court fine and criminal record or a poorbox donation.

It is entirely possible that you may do a fine job of representing yourself, but you should remember that experienced district court solicitors do this every day or week, and will be aware of what each particular judge does or does not want to hear.

By all means go to FLAC, but if you are advised to represent yourself in this matter, get a second opinion.

Good luck.

mcgarrett

If you have no previous convictions an adult caution may be an option, even though it appears you have been summoned it may still be an option if you can contact the Garda or write to the Supt.


Just realised magicsean gave similar advice.

sections4and8

howdy, ye have me convinced now about the solicitor.

im awful for saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, in the best of situations, so i dont wanna chance winding up the judge - i wouldnt mind but its my bday before im due in the dock. certainly wont be going out for that until after its over!

ill let you know how it goes with FLAC. hope to vist them wed or thurs this week.

cheers everyone. its much appreciated.