Firebird 90 Popular Heating Issue

hector2015

Hi,

I'm new to Oil Heating. I had mostly lived in rented apartments and recently I bought a house with Oil fired heating. The boiler is Firebird 90 Popular. Its a 3 bed two floor house with 6 normal size and two bathroom smaller size radiators (total 8 radiators).

The boiler was last used in Dec 2011 by the previous owners, and I moved in May 2012, but didn't use the heating as I live alone. Recently I got the oil tank filled and got someone to service the boiler, and it started working.

However, there were no heat passing through the radiators and one of the radiator was leaking. Most of the raditors' knobs were broken or stuck.

So, I got someone else to replace all the knobs (tabs) in the radiators, replaced the leaking radiator, and flushed whole line (but only with main water), thinking this will fix the heating issue as recommended by the technician.

While the technician was checking it was able to heat the upstair floor, and if I switch off all radiators upstairs then ground floor heats up. Although the technician had to make several adjustments to the boiler before the heat came. Then he had to switch off the hot water line and adjust the radiator upstairs, so all radiators heats a bit, but not enough to warm the house.

The next day when I switched on the boiler, the radiators were heated, but the boiler stops after 15 mins or so (no sound), and the radiators go cold. Then the boiler starts automatically and the same story all over again. Switching off the radiators upstairs or ground floor doesn't seems to work well either.

The boiler seems to be working. There are no air to bleed in the radiator, and doesn't seems to have air in the boiler either. There are enough oil in the tank. But not sure why its not heating even if I leave it for long time. Don't see any indication of leaking anywhere either.....

Would appreciate some advices and suggestions on how to solve this problem.

Thanks is advance to everyone.

Billy Bunting

I think firstly we need to know the "technicians" credentials.

Dardania

hector2015 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm new to Oil Heating. I had mostly lived in rented apartments and recently I bought a house with Oil fired heating. The boiler is Firebird 90 Popular. Its a 3 bed two floor house with 6 normal size and two bathroom smaller size radiators (total 8 radiators).

The boiler was last used in Dec 2011 by the previous owners, and I moved in May 2012, but didn't use the heating as I live alone. Recently I got the oil tank filled and got someone to service the boiler, and it started working.

However, there were no heat passing through the radiators and one of the radiator was leaking. Most of the raditors' knobs were broken or stuck.

So, I got someone else to replace all the knobs (tabs) in the radiators, replaced the leaking radiator, and flushed whole line (but only with main water), thinking this will fix the heating issue as recommended by the technician.

While the technician was checking it was able to heat the upstair floor, and if I switch off all radiators upstairs then ground floor heats up. Although the technician had to make several adjustments to the boiler before the heat came. Then he had to switch off the hot water line and adjust the radiator upstairs, so all radiators heats a bit, but not enough to warm the house.

The next day when I switched on the boiler, the radiators were heated, but the boiler stops after 15 mins or so (no sound), and the radiators go cold. Then the boiler starts automatically and the same story all over again. Switching off the radiators upstairs or ground floor doesn't seems to work well either.

The boiler seems to be working. There are no air to bleed in the radiator, and doesn't seems to have air in the boiler either. There are enough oil in the tank. But not sure why its not heating even if I leave it for long time. Don't see any indication of leaking anywhere either.....

Would appreciate some advices and suggestions on how to solve this problem.

Thanks is advance to everyone.

Sounds a bit like fast practice for the technician (are they a plumber at all?) to leave before all is working correctly...

It sounds like your boiler is cutting out for some reason, either the setpoint on the flow temp is met, or there is some resistance which it won't overcome.

Are there any other valves on your heating system i.e. around the hot press or the boiler that can give a clue as to how your heating system is plumbed? i.e. heating is switched on, and the hot flows to where - does it get split to go upstairs and downstairs? I'm curious to see if there's a zone valve to isolate yuupstairs, possibly with a thermostat, as sometime shtese zone valves fail uin the closed position...

DGOBS

There is still a circulation issue, this is causing the boiler to reach temperature before the rads heat maybe that the cylinder balancing valve is wide open, try closing it completely and see if the rads improve.

hector2015

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my problem.

@Dardania:
The technician was a gar registered, and he mentioned that there is nothing for the oil side. Well, later I found that there is OFTEC for oil registered technicians. He did stay late, and he also mentioned that he doesn't know what is the issue. He wasn't a plumber either. Well, I guess I should have checked about the OFTEC before agreeing the work, so wouldn't blame him.

There is only single zone. Not sure how the pipe work is done. The first person who came to service the boiler was a plumber, who walked around the house with mud, broke some of the radiator pipe so I couldn't turn on/off. Well, found that only when he left. Anyway, he didn't tell me about the pipework either... Didn't wanted to call him again.

@DGOBS:
Not sure where the cylinder balancing valve is.....will check it googling and then check it on the boiler.

It would be nice to fix the issue myself, but atleast to know what the problem is so I can try and get an OFTEC registered technician who can do both Oil boilers and plumbing work.

Oh... the house is about 18 yrs old, and the last technician did say the pipe work was bad although he is not a plumber. Hope the above details would give enough info to find the issue and probably a solution.

Thanks again everyone.

Dardania

it's no harm knowing how these things work yourself, particularly when you've been bitten by poor service in the past...

if you want, take a snap of the pipework in the hotpress, and post it up here. Any valves or joints are of interest, as well as the genreal alyout of the pipework.

shane0007

I agree with DGOBS. It is a circulation issue. The circulating pump is probably had it. Running slow.

boiler break downs

shane0007 wrote: »

I agree with DGOBS. It is a circulation issue. The circulating pump is probably had it. Running slow.

or it could be in need of a power flush.but more than likely pump .

hector2015

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all your reply.

@Dardania:
I have attached the pictures of the Boiler and Hotpress.

@shane0007:
It could be the Pump, but I tried closing all the radiators downstairs and the upstair raditors got little heated up. But instead heating fully, they went cold... so I guess the Boiler stopped heating.

Thanks again guys.

Hitchens

looks like there could be a cylinder stat under the jacket, maybe on either the flow or return pipe. Worth checking it's not set too low (if present)

jimjimt

Your oil boiler thermostat is well out of position for starters.

So most likely boiler was over heating and boiling. Scorch marks over the burner.
Pump on the flow pipe partially working from over heating and not working for other periods most likely.

Do yourself a favor and call in a pro. Make sure they have both plumbing experience and oil boiler servicing experience.

Do not be shy about asking.

Who ever you did get before was neither oil technician nor plumber.

You have a bit of tiding up to do in the boiler house for starters.

Water also leaking down around flue pipe and rotting the boiler.

hector2015

Thanks Everyone,

I just called an OFTEC registered Oil Boiler Technician and Plumber. He will be coming to check this on wednesday.... will update the result on the forum.

hector2015

Hi,

The technicians came today, and it seems there is a leak near the boiler. They said that need to be fixed and replace the pump too. I think the current one capacity is level 5 and they are planning to put a level 6 pump.

Any idea how much does it cost.

Thanks.

shane0007

hector2015 wrote: »

Hi,

The technicians came today, and it seems there is a leak near the boiler. They said that need to be fixed and replace the pump too. I think the current one capacity is level 5 and they are planning to put a level 6 pump.

Any idea how much does it cost.

Thanks.

Grundfos 25/60 €100 + VAT. There are cheaper ones on the market but Grindfos are best.

Dardania

Make sure that the technician services the boiler fully in compliance with the manufacturer's service manual - see pages 31 and 42 of http://www.firebird.ie/images/stories/standard%20efficiency%20range%20manual.pdf . The technician should also complete an OFTEC servicing form - I wouldn't pay until both of these are completed.

You should also ask the plumber, included int he price for their works, to flush ou the LPHW water and add inhibitor, to enure all is clean, and to rebalance the heating system (working on the presumption it's not correct already). The reply you made to the thread gives me a suggestion that the technician is only looking at the boiler, which is fine, but you want a fully working heating system which uincludes rads, cylinder, valves etc. - it'd be a shame to go through 3 guys to find something else not right...

hector2015

@shane0007: Thanks. I'll check to see what is the pump they are planning to fit tomorrow. By the way, its a 6 meter pump, although I'm still waiting for the model name.

@Dardania: Thanks for the information. As per the discussion today, the plumbing, pipes, pump, and check the boiler too. I did mention about the boiler being serviced, so not sure whether its going to be serviced again, except check the presure and make adjustments. They also mentioned about flushing the LPHW water. The last time it was flushed and added inhibitor too.

Will check tomorrow to see if I can get the heating working (fingers crossed).

Thanks again everyone.

hector2015

Hi,

The Technicians came today to fix the problem. They had initially recommended to change the pump, and idenfied as there was leak near the pump. However, when the pipe and pump was changed, it was still a problem. Well, finally they were able to find that there was a blockage due to a bent in pipe. They were able to fix and the heating is working fine now .

Thanks again for all your help guys.

ConCoBar

Does anyone know that if you turn the pump off so it just heats the water does it use less oil and if so by how much?

Many thanks,

Conor

DGOBS

If you turn the pump off, the boiler will overheat.

There should be some kind of control valve in your hot press (or somewhere) to isolate the radiators to allow this, it can be a level valve, sometimes a gate valve or motorised valve controlled by a time clock and/or room stat