Introducing refresher tests to improve driving standards?

Cabaal

Following on from such threads as http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056803951

Its clear there are issues in this country with people not knowing what certain road markings mean, that motorways have OVERTAKING lanes yet so many people call them fast lanes etc.

I passed my test back in 2008 and I have to say that I'd see no problem with refresher tests having to be resit every 10 years or so if it improves the standard of driving in this country.

Perhaps a existing license holders pay 30e instead of the current 70e fee.

Thoughts for or against this?

Tallon

You shouldn't need refresher training though, you should just be taught right in the first place!

The system is a joke!

"Sorry sir, you failed your test! You have 40 strikes and you clipped a pedestrian... Anyway, here's your fail cert, feel free to drive home on your own now"

Stinicker

GET OUT!

Cungi

While Tallon is right, we should be taught correctly in the first place and no driver should be allowed drive home after failing a test, i have to agree with Cabaal. Yes we should have refresher tests every ten years

And proper enforcement.

Cabaal

Tallon wrote: »

You shouldn't need refresher training though, you should just be taught right in the first place!

The system is a joke!

"Sorry sir, you failed your test! You have 40 strikes and you clipped a pedestrian... Anyway, here's your fail cert, feel free to drive home on your own now"

Agreed the system is failing in that manner and it should be the same as the uk.

ie:
If you are found driving on a learner permit on your own the car is taken off of you!

However even if we change how the tests are done and what the Gardai do when they find people driving on learner permits this still does not address the issues we have.

What about all those people that got full licenses in the 60,s 70,s 80's and to a lesser extend the 90's who didn't learn a rules of the road book which properly covered motorway use, what yellow boxes are etc.

We have many new signs and line markings on our roads now that we just didn't have in say the 1980's, even more recent years think of the people that don't know that the different Luas signs mean?

There is no upskilling forced upon people when it comes to driving yet things have changed over the years, this has meant that poor driving has been allowed to happen even to those who previously passed tests.....its another matter altogether for people that just got a license without a test!

ljpg

for this,the standard of driving in this country is shocking,most people don't seem to have a clue when it comes to keeping distance with the car in front,roundabouts and the motorways rules,over the years bad habits creep in and a refresher test along with a days training every 10 years would be a good way to combat that,i done that "ignition" course a few years ago and i was all the better driver for it, if the goverment could finance this instead of stupid speed camera vans i think we'd have much safer roads.

coylemj

Compulsory refresher tests would put most age 70+ drivers off the road so there would be massive lobbying by rural TDs to block it and it would never get passed. Their argument would be that elderly people in big towns have free travel on buses/Dart/Luas but elderly country folk would be trapped in their own homes if they couldn't drive.

I'm not arguing on the merits but this is Ireland after all where political expediency is more important than frivolous issues like public safety, just look at the footwork going on with our TDs who are terrified about having to deal with an abortion bill!

In my home town there is a woman aged 90+ who's doctor refused to sign her last driving licence renewal so she just changed doctor and is able to continue to drive to mass every Sunday even though her eyesight is such that she can't tell a lamp post from a pedestrian.

guttenberg

What happens if you failed your refresher test though? become a L driver again until you pass? not get your license renewed? made to do an extended test? It would definitely help offset bad habits that can set in after driving for a few years, but it would be very unpopular, and wouldn't last long as a law. You can imagine the calls to Joe!

coylemj

And it would do nothing for the appalling standard of driving on the M50 and other motorways precisely because currently no driving test includes a stretch of motorway driving.

Most people could pass a refresher test but revert to their bad old ways as soon as they're back on the road so I can't see it achieving anything.

Cabaal

coylemj wrote: »

And it would do nothing for the appalling standard of driving on the M50 and other motorways precisely because currently no driving test includes a stretch of motorway driving.

Most people could pass a refresher test but revert to their bad old ways as soon as they're back on the road so I can't see it achieving anything.

You could add a motorway refresher part to the test perhaps?

Even if it didn't cover motorways statistically most accidents happen off of motorways so even if it helps to reduce these this would be a good thing,

Colonel Sanders

I'm hugely in favour of a re-test when a person renews their licence every 10 years.

I remember suggesting this to someone not long ago, the response was "that'd cause chaos as so many people would fail"

That was my point exactly and really hammered home the need for re-testing IMO. The driver would hold a full licence so could be brought onto a motorway.

And if someone 70+ can't drive they shouldn't be on the road, sorry if that sounds harsh. Nobody would suggest a 17 year old who'd shown themselves to be incompetent behind the wheel should be allowed drive anyhow as they need the car for work/college etc.

vectra

Cabaal wrote: »

Following on from such threads as http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056803951

Its clear there are issues in this country with people not knowing what certain road markings mean, that motorways have OVERTAKING lanes yet so many people call them fast lanes etc.

I passed my test back in 2008 and I have to say that I'd see no problem with refresher tests having to be resit every 10 years or so if it improves the standard of driving in this country.

Perhaps a existing license holders pay 30e instead of the current 70e fee.

Thoughts for or against this?

So, you have a full licence with 4 years and now everyone else needs refresher courses?

Experience goes a long way in life

dudara

Perhaps a refresher course before you renew your license. There wouldn't need to be a test, but you at least have to attend the course before getting your license renewed. It could work to keep people up to date with new road markings etc.


FFS - at work, I have to demonstrate continuous professional development. And my work isn't as dangerous as driving. Why shouldn't I do the same wrt driving?

ljpg

coylemj wrote: »

Compulsory refresher tests would put most age 70+ drivers off the road so there would be massive lobbying by rural TDs to block it and it would never get passed. Their argument would be that elderly people in big towns have free travel on buses/Dart/Luas but elderly country folk would be trapped in their own homes if they couldn't drive.

I'm not arguing on the merits but this is Ireland after all where political expediency is more important than frivolous issues like public safety, just look at the footwork going on with our TDs who are terrified about having to deal with an abortion bill!

In my home town there is a woman aged 90+ who's doctor refused to sign her last driving licence renewal so she just changed doctor and is able to continue to drive to mass every Sunday even though her eyesight is such that she can't tell a lamp post from a pedestrian.

this sounds harsh but i'd be reporting her to the garda if what you say above is true,preferably before she knocks down a person or child

OldmanMondeo

Cabaal wrote: »

What about all those people that got full licenses in the 60,s 70,s 80's and to a lesser extend the 90's who didn't learn a rules of the road book which properly covered motorway use, what yellow boxes are etc.

Just to pull you up here, the ROTR have always been there, and they have always been part of the test, motorways and other road usage wasn't. There was a time when there was a backlog for licenses that they were just given out, 1960's I think. My Dad gone one then.

Back on topic, Yes there should be re-training. I passed my test in the mid 90's and the M50 was only open. A lot has changed / improved on the road network side, but driver training has not kept up.

I would have no problem in taken on training that will help me improve my driving. People get re-trained for work purposes so why not driving.

Henry Ford III

It's impractical to try to refresh everyone's abilities and retest their knowledge - but perhaps those that clock up maybe 6 or more penalty points deserve some a retest?

dudara

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's impractical to try to refresh everyone's abilities and retest their knowledge - but perhaps those that clock up maybe 6 or more penalty points deserve some a retest?

Kind of like Traffic school in the US

positron

I am all for this. And I think this is going to happen eventually, what ever anyone thinks.

Scortho

While I agree with the need for a refresher test, would it be better if you had to do a theory test every 5 years.
If you don't pass it you'd then be required to resit your practical section.
Most of the problems that I see with drivers is the fact that they don't know the rules of the road.

Colonel Sanders

Scortho wrote: »

While I agree with the need for a refresher test, would it be better if you had to do a theory test every 5 years.
If you don't pass it you'd then be required to resit your practical section.
Most of the problems that I see with drivers is the fact that they don't know the rules of the road.

There's a lot of people who know the rules of the road but blatantly ignore them

joujoujou

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Just to pull you up here, the ROTR have always been there, and they have always been part of the test, motorways and other road usage wasn't. There was a time when there was a backlog for licenses that they were just given out, 1960's I think. My Dad gone one then.

Back on topic, Yes there should be re-training. I passed my test in the mid 90's and the M50 was only open. A lot has changed / improved on the road network side, but driver training has not kept up.

I would have no problem in taken on training that will help me improve my driving. People get re-trained for work purposes so why not driving.

Training - YES, why not.

Re-testing - NO !!

Proper basic education at the very first time and no more provisional licences will do the job. People get their provisional licences and go driving, learning bad habits.

GarIT

People should have to prove that they are still competent to drive on the roads, people change over time, their ability to drive will change and a life lost isn't worth not having the inconvenience of a re test.

I don't drive but even I can see there are lots of people that shouldn't be driving.

Cookie_Monster

GarIT wrote: »

People should have to prove that they are still competent to drive on the roads, people change over time, their ability to drive will change

as do roads, the rules and requirements and vehicle capabilities and equipment. I'm all for re-testing every 10 years, but there needs to be reform of the test first to include parallel parking, emergency stops and so forth.

Cabaal

vectra wrote: »

So, you have a full licence with 4 years and now everyone else needs refresher courses?

Experience goes a long way in life

I worked hard to get my license despite the fact I don't enjoy driving but I needed it for work, but I don't take it for granted and as some god given right.

Got my learner permit and 6 months and 9 days later (had to wait 6 months by law) I did my test and passed. Atleast I didn't feck about on permits for 5-6 years like alot of people.,

If refresher courses came in then like everyone else I'd be doing the test in 6 years time, and rightly so as I'm sure like everyone else there's stuff I need to improve on since doing my test.

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Just to pull you up here, the ROTR have always been there, and they have always been part of the test, motorways and other road usage wasn't. There was a time when there was a backlog for licenses that they were just given out, 1960's I think. My Dad gone one then.

I never said the ROTR haven't always been there,

I said that the contents of a ROTR have changed over the years and as such you have many many people that did a test during the decades I mentioned but they lack the knowledge of new signs/road markings that didn't exist in Ireland when they did their test.

This is why a refresher course should be used to upskill people

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's impractical to try to refresh everyone's abilities and retest their knowledge - but perhaps those that clock up maybe 6 or more penalty points deserve some a retest?

How is it?
Is it as impractical as making everyone get a NCT or requiring that all new drivers do a driving test?

Everyone wins on it...for the most part, people learn stuff they may not know (esp older drivers), the roads likely become safer place, the government picks up some money on it and it employs extra people.

Sure it'll cost people to do the refresher but then who ever said driving wasn't expensive?

tritium

vectra wrote: »

Experience goes a long way in life

Yes it does, like having enough experience to realise that you may not be as good as you think you are, or that maybe things have changed a wee bit in the last 10 years.
Seriously, this is the kind of arrogant BS that lets the Irish down in so many areas, including driving! The " I've been doing this for years, sure what could anyone teach me" crap.

corktina

coylemj wrote: »

Compulsory refresher tests would put most age 70+ drivers off the road so there would be massive lobbying by rural TDs to block it and it would never get passed. Their argument would be that elderly people in big towns have free travel on buses/Dart/Luas but elderly country folk would be trapped in their own homes if they couldn't drive.

I'm not arguing on the merits but this is Ireland after all where political expediency is more important than frivolous issues like public safety, just look at the footwork going on with our TDs who are terrified about having to deal with an abortion bill!

In my home town there is a woman aged 90+ who's doctor refused to sign her last driving licence renewal so she just changed doctor and is able to continue to drive to mass every Sunday even though her eyesight is such that she can't tell a lamp post from a pedestrian.

yes elderly drivers can be a hold up but Im afraid that most of the cars I see sauntering along oblivious of road conditions, markings etc seem to be middle aged people mostly of the opposite gender to me. I suspect that many of these people are on provisionals still and I think this needs to be addressed and compulsory re-testing wont do this. ENFORCEMENT is a better option

Savman

Think I'd be in favour of a Theory test every x number of years. A full refresh for every driver is impractical IMHO, no doubt there'd be huge backlogs and chaos would ensue.

corktina

more likely those who might fail just wont show op for it but will continue driving anyway

Drummerboy08

I'm surprised this hasn't been looked at in more detail before now.

As nasty as it is, it's probably another good income generator for the government.

stoneill

Cabaal wrote: »

What about all those people that got full licenses in the 60,s 70,s 80's and to a lesser extend the 90's who didn't learn a rules of the road book which properly covered motorway use, what yellow boxes are etc.

Not sure about that! - the lumptys that I see driving like a loon and not giving a crap about road markings are all too young to be in that category.

GarIT

Everyone blames other groups of people. In reality there are people of every age group and gender that cause problems on the road.

What I think should happen is that no licence can be renewed at all. Everytime you go for a learner's permit you should have to do a theory test and everytime you go for a full licence you do the driving test. Before the end of your 10 year full licence you can go and do the full test for your next full licence or you can let your licence run out and apply for a learner's permit again when you want. If you fail the full test you wont be issued a full licence and you can then apply for a theory test before you get a lerner's permit.

Chimaera

I'm all for this.

Like others have said, skills degrade over time and our own abilities change too. Our eyesight might be a little bit worse, our reflexes that small bit slower. Minds get a little wiser too over time. People get lazy and complacent too.

Roads change too. Motorways almost didn't exist when I passed my test in 1998 (certainly not in Limerick anyway). Road design changes. Technology changes. If you're conscientious enough, you'll go and look something up the first time you come across it, but most don't and blunder on.

Things don't always mean what you think they mean either: as an example, I've seen some new traffic lights around here with red arrows on them. My first thought was that they allowed you to turn off in the direction the arrow was pointing while other traffic had to stop (based on the amber arrow allowing you to continue on if the way is clear). On asking a Garda friend, it turns out that it means traffic intending to turn in the direction of the arrow must stop while others may be able to proceed (depending on the other lights).

So periodic retesting can catch some of this stuff. No-one is ever so good that they can afford to be complacent about any psycho-motor skill.

It's not unworkable from a system point of view either. Just employ more testers: the fee means it should be largely self-financing. I doubt the numbers seeking retests at any one time would be huge either, especially if you allow a 6 month grace period in the run-up to the expiration of your current licence to take the test.

And yes, better enforcement of existing and any new regulations is required. No excuses. I get annoyed with the people who claim they need to drive for work/college/etc on their provisional - there are alternatives, even if they might be a bit inconvenient. Or the "I'm a great driver but I can't handle the stress of a driving test" brigade: if you can't deal with the stress of the driving test, you can't deal with the stress of driving and shouldn't have a licence!

Our man in Havana

Yet another reason to keep hold of a foreign licence.

ardmacha

A full retest might not be needed in the first instance and would be hard to organise. A comprehensive rules of road test when renewing does seem wise and is hard to do.

OldmanMondeo

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Yet another reason to keep hold of a foreign licence.

Change the law that you need an EU licence. Once resident in the country more than 1 year, you must do an Irish driving test. You wish to live and drive here, learn the Irish way, no matter how bad we are at it.

Our man in Havana

Will never happen. The EU will go nuts.

OldmanMondeo

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Will never happen. The EU will go nuts.

Is there not something similar in the UK. Sure what can the EU do? It's not like everyone who wants to drive in Ireland, people on holidays etc, would have to do it. It is all in the name of safety. If I was living in another European country I would have no problem in learning their way.

joujoujou

Chimaera wrote: »

[...] skills degrade over time [...]

What?! :eek:

With all due respect, do you wanna say everyday training makes your skills degrading? :P

GarIT wrote: »

People should have to prove that they are still competent to drive on the roads, people change over time, their ability to drive will change and a life lost isn't worth not having the inconvenience of a re test.

I don't drive but even I can see there are lots of people that shouldn't be driving.

I wish you saw my 81yrs old father driving, you'd change your mind.

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Yet another reason to keep hold of a foreign licence.

Fully agree.