People who overtake whilst merging

Gone Drinking

Ever drive onto the M50 Southbound at the Lucan/Liffey Valley extrance?

There's two merging lanes, one that ends quite quickly, the other that goes on forever!

What does my head in is if you're trying to merge from the shorter one and you have to wait for one car to pass you first, just before it passes the car behind you merges and puts the boot down blocking you, meaning you can't merge for a second time, meaning you end up in the paint because the car behind you couldn't merge without making sure he overtook you.

This happens ALL the time. If I'm that car behind I'll merge and either get straight into the next lane, or give the car in front a chance to merge also.

deandean

That rarely if ever happens to me at that spot. Maybe you are dawdling and pee-ing off the driver behind you?

Once there's a gap, get in there quick, don't be afraid to assert yourself

madds

It's when the car which is already on the M50 decides to stay in the lane that the merging traffic is joining when the lane outside of them is free is what gets me annoyed! I join there every morning and 7 times out of 10 you see this. Three or four cars trying to merge and nearly have to come to a complete crawl because some idiot won't show a bit of cop on and move out to accommodate those merging.

And don't get me started on the 'M50 rubberneckers'...

Davidth88

TBH , that junction is very bad . The ' short ' merge lane ( offside merge ) is terrible and if you happen to hit the M50 when there is an HGV on your offside it's almost impossible to merge, it's an accident waiting to happen

I use it every day , but because I am coming off at the red cow what I do is stick to the near side and just trundle along the ' spare ' lane ( not sure what you are meant to call it because its got that funny dotted line )

ballooba

deandean wrote: »

Once there's a gap, get in there quick, don't be afraid to assert yourself

They should put this on billboards. It's a phrase I use regularly.:D

MrDerp

I always merge onto the m50 in the auxiliary lane and let the numptys scramble for place in lane 1.

By the time they've finished clambering for road position, I'm halfway to the next exit, in the auxiliary lane, merging into calmer traffic. A big factor in peak-hour slow downs at the juntions is a combination of
- Driver type 1 (D1): who's already on the m50 not leaving a gap in lane 1
- Driver type 2 (D2): Drivers that, for some demented reason, simply must merge on the short merge lane, asap, before sliding into lane 2 at 75km/h and blocking that.

Meanwhile the lane 2 dawdlers slip into lane 3 at 90km/h to avoid the confusion caused by D1 & D2 above, and hey presto, rolling road-block @ 90km/h across 3 lanes until halfway to the next exit.

This is often followed a brake-light backlog on the mainline slowing traffic approaching the junction down to 60km/h, because of Driver type 3 (D3), who's been tailgating a van/truck/jeep that he can't even see past, with no regard for safety.

Once a week, a D3 crashes into the vehicle in front (D4), in lane 3, who's had to brake for a D2, who decided to get into the 'gap' (read: safe distance between D4 and the car in front of him/her, D5) without looking down the road, and jamming on because of another D2's antics 5 cars up.

I've given up on hoping for good driving on the M50. I get into Lane 1 and if I see tailgating merging cars I either slow to let them all on, or get into Lane 2 if safe to do so. I average 80km/h in the mornings now, I'm saving a couple of litres of fuel per week and my commute has increased by all of about a minute.

corktina

How does the car behind you merge and then pass you out? Why didn't you merge when he did?

Grolschevik

MrDerp wrote: »

I always merge onto the m50 in the auxiliary lane and let the numptys scramble for place in lane 1.

That can be pretty awkward at the Northbound Ballymun junction with the M50 at certain times. Stay in the auxiliary lane, and you have to fight your way out through all the people who are moving left to position themselves for the M1.

dudara

Gone Drinking - I don't know how you drive, so this isn't meant for you. My role as a driver is to merge as quickly and safely as I can. If someone in front of me is dawdling, I will merge from behind them, as long as the road markings permit me to.

Del2005

madds wrote: »

It's when the car which is already on the M50 decides to stay in the lane that the merging traffic is joining when the lane outside of them is free is what gets me annoyed!

There is no requirement for drivers to pull out of the driving lane for people to merge. It's up to the merging traffic join safely, not the people on the road to move over for them to join safely.

madds wrote: »

I join there every morning and 7 times out of 10 you see this. Three or four cars trying to merge and nearly have to come to a complete crawl because some idiot won't show a bit of cop on and move out to accommodate those merging.

The person on the road doesn't need any cop on, the merging drivers need to cop on and read the road. If the cars where maintaining correct distances then they shouldn't all be affected by 1 car maintaining it's road position.

OldmanMondeo

That's why every morning I use the other lane.

Reloc8

[QUOTE=MrDerp;81880053and hey presto, rolling road-block @ 90km/h across 3 lanes until halfway to the next exit.
[/QUOTE]

How is this in any way a rolling road-block ?

looksee

corktina wrote: »

How does the car behind you merge and then pass you out? Why didn't you merge when he did?

because the car on the motorway has cleared the car behind before it clears the car in front.

slimjimmc

corktina wrote: »

How does the car behind you merge and then pass you out? Why didn't you merge when he did?

Simple, the OP is blocked in by a car (Car #1) already in lane 1 which approaches at exactly the same time and speed as the op. By the time the OP has adjusted his speed to slip in behind this car #1 (no room to get in front), car #2 behind merges early (often by illegally crossing the solid white line or ghost island), accelerates and fills the gap that OP was about to enter. The OP is now faced with a 2 car rolling block instead of a single car one.

corktina

looksee wrote: »

because the car on the motorway has cleared the car behind before it clears the car in front.

to stop you merging he would have to be less than a car length from the car in front!....just pull in to the gap ,it's easy!

Guy:Incognito

What I cant understand is why 95% of the traffic all are either in or move in to the outside lane of the slip that disappears at every junction on the M50. They all end up trying to merge in one block in a 30m section.

At least half the traffic should be in the left lane where they have all the way to the next junction to move on the motorway with ease.

ironclaw

Del2005 wrote: »

The person on the road doesn't need any cop on, the merging drivers need to cop on and read the road. If the cars where maintaining correct distances then they shouldn't all be affected by 1 car maintaining it's road position.

Rubbish. In this context of a short merge lane and if the two lanes to your right are empty, you should move right and allow traffic to merge safely and effectively. Its incredible arrogant to stay in the extreme left lane when traffic is trying to merge and you have an opportunity to move.

Its basic road manners, something people in this country don't commonly have.

Guy:Incognito

ironclaw wrote: »

Rubbish. In this context of a short merge lane and if the two lanes to your right are empty, you should move right and allow traffic to merge safely and effectively. Its incredible arrogant to stay in the extreme left lane when traffic is trying to merge and you have an opportunity to move.

Its basic road manners, something people in this country don't commonly have.

Theres no need to move anywhere, Just leave proper gaps and the traffic can merge without issue. The problem arises when 20 idiots all try to merge together in a bunch 5 feet from each others bumpers from a lane that stops.

Stheno

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Theres no need to move anywhere, Just leave proper gaps and the traffic can merge without issue. The problem arises when 20 idiots all try to merge together in a bunch 5 feet from each others bumpers from a lane that stops.

And at about half the speed of the cars already on the motorway proper.

ironclaw

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Theres no need to move anywhere, Just leave proper gaps and the traffic can merge without issue. The problem arises when 20 idiots all try to merge together in a bunch 5 feet from each others bumpers from a lane that stops.

So you saying if the right lane is empty, your clocking along at 100km/h or so, and its perfectly safe to do so, you won't move out right to ease merging traffic? Its fairly common practise in the UK and US to move out one lane from a slip road to allow traffic to merge. Its courtesy. Also a lot safer as given in this scenario we're presuming the right lane is empty, you can safely maintain your speed, and merge back in a few 100 metres later, well away from the high jinks that usually ensue near our slip roads.

I agree people merge way to close to one another but its mainly due to the first gombeen slamming on the brakes in a panic rather than accelerating / pacing to merge.

_Kaiser_

I love these threads..

- We have the type who can't merge properly and can't/won't drive at a decent and consistent speed (where decent = the posted limit when safe/appropriate to do so)

- And we have the "I'm in the right" types sitting in Lane 1 who will not show a bit of cop on and move over to Lane 2 to facilitate easy merging because strictly speaking they're doing nothing wrong as they trundle along at just/significantly under the indicated 100 km/h themselves

Me I speed up to 100/120 as I merge and then cut across to Lane 3 until I get past the N3/N4/N7 junctions after which I'll move back over.. leave ye all to it! You can cluck about that all you like but I will put my own safety and that of my car first over the weaving in and out muppetry that goes on on the M50 all day every day - until the day we see the Gardai do more than camp at the side of the other motorways with their arm out the window!

testarossa40

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I love these threads..

- We have the type who can't merge properly and can't/won't drive at a decent and consistent speed (where decent = the posted limit when safe/appropriate to do so)

- And we have the "I'm in the right" types sitting in Lane 1 who will not show a bit of cop on and move over to Lane 2 to facilitate easy merging because strictly speaking they're doing nothing wrong as they trundle along at just/significantly under the indicated 100 km/h themselves

Me I speed up to 100/120 as I merge and then cut across to Lane 3 until I get past the N3/N4/N7 junctions after which I'll move back over.. leave ye all to it! You can cluck about that all you like but I will put my own safety and that of my car first over the weaving in and out muppetry that goes on on the M50 all day every day - until the day we see the Gardai do more than camp at the side of the other motorways with their arm out the window!

Spot on.

OP, I've NEVER had that happen to me at that particular slip but I've been in situations where I've had to, ehm, "assert" myself past a a too-slow car in front in order to join safely. If your car's not quite up to it why not use the longer lane instead to give yourself time to get up to an adequate, safe merge speed? Remember, drivers joining a motorway are required to get up to and match sped of the traffic already on the mainline when joining to avoid unnecessary disruptions and possibly rear-endings...

Honey-ec

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Ever drive onto the M50 Southbound at the Lucan/Liffey Valley extrance?

There's two merging lanes, one that ends quite quickly, the other that goes on forever!

What does my head in is if you're trying to merge from the shorter one and you have to wait for one car to pass you first, just before it passes the car behind you merges and puts the boot down blocking you, meaning you can't merge for a second time, meaning you end up in the paint because the car behind you couldn't merge without making sure he overtook you.

This happens ALL the time. If I'm that car behind I'll merge and either get straight into the next lane, or give the car in front a chance to merge also.

The far bigger issue on that slip is the number of total fcukwits in the left merging lane who barge into the right one instead of just staying where they are and merging 500m further down, where they're supposed to.

Davidth88

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I love these threads..

- We have the type who can't merge properly and can't/won't drive at a decent and consistent speed (where decent = the posted limit when safe/appropriate to do so)

- And we have the "I'm in the right" types sitting in Lane 1 who will not show a bit of cop on and move over to Lane 2 to facilitate easy merging because strictly speaking they're doing nothing wrong as they trundle along at just/significantly under the indicated 100 km/h themselves

Me I speed up to 100/120 as I merge and then cut across to Lane 3 until I get past the N3/N4/N7 junctions after which I'll move back over.. leave ye all to it! You can cluck about that all you like but I will put my own safety and that of my car first over the weaving in and out muppetry that goes on on the M50 all day every day - until the day we see the Gardai do more than camp at the side of the other motorways with their arm out the window!

You actually need to see / try this junction during the really busy times , the actual merge section is only about 100m long , and all lanes are totally full so having lane 1 swap up to lane 2 is not an option . you are also coming out of a REALLY REALLY tight corner so if you have a van or something you have little time to speed up .

If you happen to hit the merge section when there is a stream of HGV's going along in lane 1 ( which is more often than not ) , it's almost impossible to merge.

I have driven for 30 yrs ( including 20 odd years in England where I learnt ) and have many many motorway miles (30-40k per year ) under my belt , believe me it's not an easy junction when it's busy.


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madds

Del2005 wrote: »

There is no requirement for drivers to pull out of the driving lane for people to merge. It's up to the merging traffic join safely, not the people on the road to move over for them to join safely.

The person on the road doesn't need any cop on, the merging drivers need to cop on and read the road. If the cars where maintaining correct distances then they shouldn't all be affected by 1 car maintaining it's road position.

As someone has already said, you're exhibiting a basic lack of road etiquette. Being a good driver is all about understanding your position in the road whilst also being aware of the position of other cars around you, and understanding when a simple change of position of your vehicle, when it is safe to do so, has a direct impact on allowing other drivers to safely change position also.

Honey-ec

madds wrote: »

As someone has already said, you're exhibiting a basic lack of road etiquette. Being a good driver is all about understanding your position in the road whilst also being aware of the position of other cars around you, and understanding when a simple change of position of your vehicle, when it is safe to do so, has a direct impact on allowing other drivers to safely change position also.

Or, you could argue that people doing this is one of the reasons so many drivers in this country haven't a notion of how to merge properly, cause they just assume everyone else will get out of their way.

Grolschevik

Honey-ec wrote: »

Or, you could argue that people doing this is one of the reasons so many drivers in this country haven't a notion of how to merge properly, cause they just assume everyone else will get out of their way.

It's a bit of both, really.

jackofalltrades

ironclaw wrote: »

Its fairly common practise in the UK and US to move out one lane from a slip road to allow traffic to merge.

I've driven in a good few different states in the US and what you describe is not common practise. You'd get driven off the road in New York if you merged expecting people to move over.

Honey-ec wrote:

The far bigger issue on that slip is the number of total fcukwits in the left merging lane who barge into the right one instead of just staying where they are and merging 500m further down, where they're supposed to.

It's a terrible designed section of road that's going to lead to a crash one day.

Or, you could argue that people doing this is one of the reasons so many drivers in this country haven't a notion of how to merge properly, cause they just assume everyone else will get out of their way.

+1 I've lost count of the number of times I've had someone trying to merge, driving right beside me making no effort to merge. Only indicating or accelerating/slowing down when they realise they're about to run out of road. Needlessly moving over for people who could easily merge if they bothered just encourages bad driving. That said I have no problem pulling over to acomodate trcuks, buses and other vehicles that can't merge easily.

ironclaw

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I've driven in a good few different states in the US and what you describe is not common practise. You'd get driven off the road in New York if you merged expecting people to move over..

Slight difference, I'm not expecting people to move over. Most people don't see past the 10m bubble around their own car and do not see their actions having any affect to those around them. As such I'm speaking as myself and what I would do.

I don't expect anyone to move out nor do I blindly charge down the slip expecting the same. Most people don't. In fact most people see merging traffic and slow down (Or worse, brake) to let them merge, even if its perfectly safe to move right. What I'm saying is, and both criteria have to be met, if you can safely move right and allow traffic to safely merge, then you should.

Freeways in the States like you said though are utter madness, far worse than here. I suppose the difference is there is normally far more room to manoeuvre and merge lanes are never 100m long.

Chimaera

I'll always pull out at a merge point when I can. I know there are lots of junctions where the merge lane is too short to allow the merging driver to get up to speed. It also allows me to maintain progress rather than potentially having to slow down because someone drives into the lane in front of me without looking.

There is at least one merge lane on the Limerick bypass which spits you out on a blind bend: you've no visibility to your right as you approach the mainline, so anyone merging from that lane won't see a car on the mainline until very late. In that case it's a very good idea for the driver on the mainline to move out of their way. For those that know the area, it's the merge from the Dock Road outbound onto the motorway going towards Ballysimon. The right merge lane is short and comes out in the middle of a bend. The left one is longer and much safer for the driver merging.

conzy

Put the shoe in tbh

jackofalltrades

ironclaw wrote: »

I don't expect anyone to move out nor do I blindly charge down the slip expecting the same. Most people don't. In fact most people see merging traffic and slow down (Or worse, brake) to let them merge, even if its perfectly safe to move right.

There's a lot of drivers out there who merge onto motorways and expect traffic on the motorway to move over and accommodate their lazy, slow merging style.

What I'm saying is, and both criteria have to be met, if you can safely move right and allow traffic to safely merge, then you should.

You should do that if safety is an issue, otherwise it's unnecessary and just encourages bad driving and a sense of entitlement over being let out.

Freeways in the States like you said though are utter madness, far worse than here. I suppose the difference is there is normally far more room to manoeuvre and merge lanes are never 100m long.

I've encountered junctions where traffic has to merge on and off the road and has 100m approx. to do it in. On a road where traffic is averaging 65-70 mph.

ironclaw

jackofalltrades wrote: »

You should do that if safety is an issue, otherwise it's unnecessary and just encourages bad driving and a sense of entitlement over being let out.

I still cannot believe people will argue to continue down the left most lane of a motorway, at a slip road, if traffic is trying to merge IF they have the ability to move right momentarily. It boggles the mind. Its not about entitlement, or rights of way, its just plain courtesy. And its certainly not bad driving. It would be bad driving if you drove in the right most lane for anything longer than the few 100 metres before and after the slip to allow traffic to merge.

I'd be keen to point out also that all this revolves around if traffic is merging AND you can move right safely. I'm not for one second saying you should automatically move right or barge into the right lane at every slip road.

You'll actually be doing yourself a favour anyway because in the vast majority of cases the merging driver is going to end up in front of you (At a slower speed) and you'll have to either slow down or overtake regardless. It actually shows bad forward perception if you allow yourself to end up in that situation. You'll also be doing the gombeens who slam on the brakes a favour when they realise they don't have a car barreling down beside them at 100km/h+

Having done 1000's of road miles in the US, I appreciate what you saying. However the standard of driving there is borderline laughable. Its not as technical as here in my opinion and would be an unfair comparison on the whole.

corktina

I'd agree with moving over and if you can't just ease off the gas for a second to give the guy merging a bit of room...basically many drivers are just selfish rsoles!

If it's you merging, be positive, indicate your intention and pull in.... most people will avoid hitting youi if they can....

jackofalltrades

ironclaw wrote: »

I still cannot believe people will argue to continue down the left most lane of a motorway, at a slip road, if traffic is trying to merge IF they have the ability to move right momentarily. It boggles the mind. Its not about entitlement, or rights of way, its just plain courtesy. And its certainly not bad driving.

You don't have to move over, 80-90% of time time you don't need to. If you want to move over then good for you, but people who don't aren't being discourteous. Obviously if safety is a factor then you should always move over to accommodate merging traffic.

However the standard of driving there is borderline laughable. Its not as technical as here in my opinion and would be an unfair comparison on the whole

How is it not as technical? American drivers stop at stop signs. The average Irish driver slows down, then drives straight through them.
American drivers can figure out a 4-way stop sign. You'd have mayhem at that kind of junction over here.

Eric Cartman

at that point im always running into cars on the chevrons trying to merge at 40km/h , i just check if the middle lane is clear and put the boot down.