Spin training

miller82

I remember months and months ago there was a thread on spining as part of training (i can't find it now) and a lot of people said no, as it is too unlike tri cycling as, the bike is different, the conditions are different, the tempo and pace are different, power output should be consitenet etc etc - which is all fair enough and i get. BUT, would spin sessions not improve your lactic acid threshold or am i totally mis-understanding how it works ?

couerdelion

It comes down to "specificty". Spinning doesn't replicate what you do in a race so isn't as good as actually getting out on a bike and cycling where you would be using the exact same muscles in the same way and same conditions.

It's still better than nothing or sitting at your desk and eating 2 aeros though

RacoonQueen

couerdelion wrote: »

It comes down to "specificty". Spinning doesn't replicate what you do in a race so isn't as good as actually getting out on a bike and cycling where you would be using the exact same muscles in the same way and same conditions.

It's still better than nothing or sitting at your desk and eating 2 aeros though

But surely spinning is going to replicate one of your turbo sessions and not one of your long bikes - so comes pretty close to doing a focused turbo session if you do the same session on a spin bike?

couerdelion

RacoonQueen wrote: »

But surely spinning is going to replicate one of your turbo sessions and not one of your long bikes - so comes pretty close to doing a focused turbo session if you do the same session on a spin bike?

Yes, a spin session will be similar to a turbo session but still not quite as specific mainly due to position - some of the more expensive spin bikes (ie. Watt bike) seem to make it posssible to exactly replicate your bike set up and are used by pro triathletes.
Most gym bikes only allow you limited amounts of movement and customisation of position on the spin bikes where as most cycles give a lot more customisation options so it's difficult to replicate your race position.

It would be interesting to know if incorrect set-up on spin bikes causes injury. With the resistance turned up and cadence low theres a fair amount of pressure on the knees.

tunney

RacoonQueen wrote: »

But surely spinning is going to replicate one of your turbo sessions and not one of your long bikes - so comes pretty close to doing a focused turbo session if you do the same session on a spin bike?

If spinning is replicating one of your turbos then your turbo sessions aren't up to much

miller82

couerdelion wrote: »

It's still better than nothing or sitting at your desk and eating 2 aeros though

well played

so just back to the original point

would spin sessions not improve your lactic acid threshold or am i totally mis-understanding how it works

RacoonQueen

tunney wrote: »

If spinning is replicating one of your turbos then your turbo sessions aren't up to much

I don't do either spinning or turbo sessions but surely the spin bike has to be able to simulate something useful - intervals, high cadence etc

Pulse do a 'Cycle specific spin class' - no idea what they do but it seems popular, including the good cyclists so I assume it must be somewhat useful.

couerdelion

miller82 wrote: »

well played

so just back to the original point

would spin sessions not improve your lactic acid threshold or am i totally mis-understanding how it works

If you were controlling the spin session then yes in theory it could. Working at a moderately high % of your current LT/FTP for longish intervals (say 2 x 12 min intervals @ 75% w/ 6 mins rest interval between) should help raise it. Most spin classes aren't structured that way though. It's about short bursts of energy, fast spinning and leaning left and right and standing on the bike (from the few classes I did ).

couerdelion

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I don't do either spinning or turbo sessions but surely the spin bike has to be able to simulate something useful - intervals, high cadence etc

Pulse do a 'Cycle specific spin class' - no idea what they do but it seems popular, including the good cyclists so I assume it must be somewhat useful.

I think you are gettng the silent treatment!

Ah - can see it now.... Yes, it would be useful if it's specific to cycling as they could tailor it to help increases with FTP etc

tunney

couerdelion wrote: »

If you were controlling the spin session then yes in theory it could. Working at a moderately high % of your current LT/FTP for longish intervals (say 2 x 12 min intervals @ 75% w/ 6 mins rest interval between) should help raise it. Most spin classes aren't structured that way though. It's about short bursts of energy, fast spinning and leaning left and right and standing on the bike (from the few classes I did ).

75% is low end of tempo, not even *near* threshold power. A 12 minute interval typically would have (according to Coggan et al, I'm sure Peter will be along soon to correct them) of 105% or so.

couerdelion

tunney wrote: »

75% is low end of tempo, not even *near* threshold power. A 12 minute interval typically would have (according to Coggan et al, I'm sure Peter will be along soon to correct them) of 105% or so.

Sorry you're right, I was thinking of 75% of VO2 max as a starting point not 75% of FTP. My typing fingers and brain aren't always connected.

BennyMul

is % of FTP in an incorrect position the same as on your own bike?
also most wont have a calibrated pm so you will be working off HR or RPE which unless the position is close to your bike will be different,

imo, it is better than no session but the same time on a turbo doing a specific set is a better use of time.

slightly off topic do, the one thing I noticed the spin classes do is short sprint intervals (<30 seconds), does anyone do them in training to get the body used to speed changes?

tunney

BennyMul wrote: »

is % of FTP in an incorrect position the same as on your own bike?
also most wont have a calibrated pm so you will be working off HR or RPE which unless the position is close to your bike will be different,

imo, it is better than no session but the same time on a turbo doing a specific set is a better use of time.

slightly off topic do, the one thing I noticed the spin classes do is short sprint intervals (<30 seconds), does anyone do them in training to get the body used to speed changes?

And speed changes are important in non-drafting triathlon why?

BennyMul

so you can accelarate to overtake without using their draft zone.

I was more so thinking of the fact that there is always accelerations within a race, up a small drag, over taking out of a sharp corner etc. and these do take an effort,

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

75% is low end of tempo, not even *near* threshold power. A 12 minute interval typically would have (according to Coggan et al, I'm sure Peter will be along soon to correct them) of 105% or so.

I am disgusted you give him 6 min rest thats a joke ;-)

miller82

BennyMul wrote: »

so you can accelarate to overtake without using their draft zone.

I was more so thinking of the fact that there is always accelerations within a race, up a small drag, over taking out of a sharp corner etc. and these do take an effort,

power output should remain constant though regardless of hills etc , right ?

RacoonQueen

couerdelion wrote: »

I think you are gettng the silent treatment!

Ah - can see it now.... Yes, it would be useful if it's specific to cycling as they could tailor it to help increases with FTP etc

I haven't been on a spin bike since I was in first year in college and only because I had to be then but I'm sure they have some benefits. With the fly wheel you can't really simulate cadence I guess but the popularity of our sessions would suggest it must have some benefits. Wouldn't do it myself, would rather shoot a hole in my head.

BennyMul

miller82 wrote: »

power output should remain constant though regardless of hills etc , right ?

in an ideal world you should try and keep it constant. espically the longer the distance. but in shorter events you are more then likely to ride hard causing a spike in power, espically on short drags.