Cheap house build

hiho1967

This thread is prob one of how long is a piece of string but here goes.

Is there anyone on here ever built a house on the cheap with getting friends and family members who work in the building trades to help. Im just curious as to how cheap i could build a standard bungalow for.

Theres a friend who gave me a book of plans from 2005 and theres houses in it that can be built at a builders finish for 40k euros. It would be a small old type bungalow and something i could see myself living in for this kind of money.

I have a cousin who has a site with planning and he's told me that he'll sell me it for 12.k if i can get him the money early next year. Its been on my mind constant ever since we chatted about it and im seriously considering it in the coming years as theres 4 years left on the planning.

I know this book is out of date by 8 years and i know that materials wouldnt be the same price but the cost of labour for a build has dropped massively and with a few cousin's and friends all working in construction id be able to get them on the cheap. Id also do most of the work myself to cut costs down alot so would the 40k be wishfull thinking or could i possibly build one for that amount.

All id want really is 3 bedrooms, 2 double and 1 single,1 ensuite. 1 bathroom, kitchen,utillty etc..

*Where would most the cost go when building a house. would labour be more expensive than materials or would it be the other way around.
*Would a timber frame be cheaper than a block built and if not is there any other method out there thats cheaper than these two.

When chatting with my cousin who works in construction hes told me that there quite alot that i can do during teh build right from the foundations to the painting of the walls. He's said to me that its even possibl ethat i can help with plumbing,eletrics etc.. just as long as i have fully qualified sparkies/plumbers there. His words were "theres nothing to running cables,pipes etc.. and wiring them into sockets,switches and anyone can tighten a fitting for plumbing or its possible to use quick plastic fittings and anyone can do it".

As for the roof, leave the timber work for the roofers but its possible i could lay felt,battens and even lay tiles. For the screed floor, i can labour to the screeders with bring the screed into them thou he's told me this is hard work:rolleyes:. Insulation is easy enough to install and its quite easy to make up a studwall if you know how to use a hammer and saw.

I could go on more about what needs to be done in a house but i think yous get my drift. Im just curious if theres anyone on here whos took this approach themselves or known anyone who has and could give me an idea of what they spent.

kkelliher

hiho1967 wrote: »

This thread is prob one of how long is a piece of string but here goes.

Is there anyone on here ever built a house on the cheap with getting friends and family members who work in the building trades to help. Im just curious as to how cheap i could build a standard bungalow for.

Theres a friend who gave me a book of plans from 2005 and theres houses in it that can be built at a builders finish for 40k euros. It would be a small old type bungalow and something i could see myself living in for this kind of money.

I have a cousin who has a site with planning and he's told me that he'll sell me it for 12.k if i can get him the money early next year. Its been on my mind constant ever since we chatted about it and im seriously considering it in the coming years as theres 4 years left on the planning.

I know this book is out of date by 8 years and i know that materials wouldnt be the same price but the cost of labour for a build has dropped massively and with a few cousin's and friends all working in construction id be able to get them on the cheap. Id also do most of the work myself to cut costs down alot so would the 40k be wishfull thinking or could i possibly build one for that amount.

All id want really is 3 bedrooms, 2 double and 1 single,1 ensuite. 1 bathroom, kitchen,utillty etc..

*Where would most the cost go when building a house. would labour be more expensive than materials or would it be the other way around.
*Would a timber frame be cheaper than a block built and if not is there any other method out there thats cheaper than these two.

When chatting with my cousin who works in construction hes told me that there quite alot that i can do during teh build right from the foundations to the painting of the walls. He's said to me that its even possibl ethat i can help with plumbing,eletrics etc.. just as long as i have fully qualified sparkies/plumbers there. His words were "theres nothing to running cables,pipes etc.. and wiring them into sockets,switches and anyone can tighten a fitting for plumbing or its possible to use quick plastic fittings and anyone can do it".

As for the roof, leave the timber work for the roofers but its possible i could lay felt,battens and even lay tiles. For the screed floor, i can labour to the screeders with bring the screed into them thou he's told me this is hard work:rolleyes:. Insulation is easy enough to install and its quite easy to make up a studwall if you know how to use a hammer and saw.

I could go on more about what needs to be done in a house but i think yous get my drift. Im just curious if theres anyone on here whos took this approach themselves or known anyone who has and could give me an idea of what they spent.

Absolutly no chance no matter what the specification that you can build a one off new property 3 bed size for €40k even if all the labour was for free. concrete, blocks, kitchen units, heating, wiring etc etc cant be done for nothing.

You need to get the plans costed. If it has planning already then there is already a design that you cant just change to one from a book without spending more money and going through planning again

You will also have to pay a contribution, legals on transfer of ownership of the land, stamp duty, professional fees for the build, roads, paths, drainage system, connections feed etc etc etc

timhawker

Dominic Stevens' house in Country Leitrim, which cost €25k to construct, might be of interest:

http://www.irishvernacular.com/index.html

hiho1967

kkelliher wrote: »

Absolutly no chance no matter what the specification that you can build a one off new property 3 bed size for €40k even if all the labour was for free. concrete, blocks, kitchen units, heating, wiring etc etc cant be done for nothing.

You need to get the plans costed. If it has planning already then there is already a design that you cant just change to one from a book without spending more money and going through planning again

You will also have to pay a contribution, legals on transfer of ownership of the land, stamp duty, professional fees for the build, roads, paths, drainage system, connections feed etc etc etc

The plans can be changed for a few hundred euro and the road(stones) and drainage is already in place. As for the legal fee's,stamp duty etc.. that wasnt really in my price. I just mean the structure and will buy a display kitchen for around 1000euro(have seen a few on donedeal)

I do understand that the wiring/heating system cant be done for nothing but they wouldnt be a major cost in the build i would think. 5k max! in my opinion and that leaves 35k for roof,block work,windows,doors, plastered out etc.. and still have changed left.

hiho1967

timhawker wrote: »

Dominic Stevens' house in Country Leitrim, which cost €25k to construct, might be of interest:

http://www.irishvernacular.com/index.html

Lovely wee house and for the extra 15k id be able to extend it even more.

sinnerboy

Keep us posted;)

bbam

hiho1967 wrote: »

I do understand that the wiring/heating system cant be done for nothing but they wouldnt be a major cost in the build i would think. 5k max! in my opinion

I'm presuming your basing your opinion on something... surely your not just pulling figures out of the air ??

mfceiling

hiho1967 wrote: »

The plans can be changed for a few hundred euro and the road(stones) and drainage is already in place. As for the legal fee's,stamp duty etc.. that wasnt really in my price. I just mean the structure and will buy a display kitchen for around 1000euro(have seen a few on donedeal)

I do understand that the wiring/heating system cant be done for nothing but they wouldnt be a major cost in the build i would think. 5k max! in my opinion and that leaves 35k for roof,block work,windows,doors, plastered out etc.. and still have changed left.

No.

Roof trusses
Blocks
Lintels
Concrete
Felt
Slates
Battens
Fascia
Soffits
Gutters
Cement
Skim
Plasterboard
Screws/Nails/Fixings
Insulation
Windows
Doors
Airtight tape/expanding foam/silicon
Timber
Ironmongery


This is just a tiny list of materials that you will need - try costing them - this is before labour costs are included.

Also trying to get plumbing and electrics supplied and installed for 5k - not a hope.

Also remember building standards have to be adhered to - again not cheap.

You probably won't get near a habitable home for 40k....:(

hiho1967

Sorry guys but my figers are just pulled out of the air and some wishfull thinking. Is there any link sto houses that have been built to closer this amount. what would our best guess be, say 65k or more to 100k

Going Demented

Not a hope. We are starting a build soon. Here are some of what's been paid and what the quotes are bearing in mind some are family. This is your basic rectangle bungalow, 3 bedrooms and all you state above.

Solicitor for transfer of land, stamp duty and land registry fees, which bear in mind go up in December. 2240
Land Valued - 123
Build Insurance - 1077
Windows - 9193
ESB - 1807
Blocks - 3400
Plastering labour only (family member) - 6,800
Block Layer - 4,200
Plumber labour only - 2,500
Plumbing material's - 8,000

I'll stop there as i am on 40k and that's not even foundations, concrete and everything else that goes with it. No roof or all that goes with it. No septic tank. No drive to get vehicles in. No insulations, no electrics and on and on and on.

kkelliher

hiho1967 wrote: »

The plans can be changed for a few hundred euro and the road(stones) and drainage is already in place. As for the legal fee's,stamp duty etc.. that wasnt really in my price. I just mean the structure and will buy a display kitchen for around 1000euro(have seen a few on donedeal)

I do understand that the wiring/heating system cant be done for nothing but they wouldnt be a major cost in the build i would think. 5k max! in my opinion and that leaves 35k for roof,block work,windows,doors, plastered out etc.. and still have changed left.

Basedon this response I can only assume you intend to pay little attention to the big elephant in the room called building regulations as you have no chance of completing your works in accordance with current building regs for the prices quoted.

I have completed planning applications for friends and family free of charge and it still costs a few hundred when you include the application fee, planning map pack, printing the six sets of drawings, newspaper add and that excludes any further information requests and it also assumes it will be possible to get planning for your new change. You also have to take account of the circa €10,000 in contribution you are going to have to pay no matter where the site is.

Boards.ie is a great resource for help and assistance but no-one is going to able to help you with pure naivety of a process that you clearly do not know. I would seriously advise you to speak to a local architect, qs,etc in respect to been more realistic with your ideas.

hiho1967

kkelliher wrote: »

Basedon this response I can only assume you intend to pay little attention to the big elephant in the room called building regulations as you have no chance of completing your works in accordance with current building regs for the prices quoted.

I have completed planning applications for friends and family free of charge and it still costs a few hundred when you include the application fee, planning map pack, printing the six sets of drawings, newspaper add and that excludes any further information requests and it also assumes it will be possible to get planning for your new change. You also have to take account of the circa €10,000 in contribution you are going to have to pay no matter where the site is.

Boards.ie is a great resource for help and assistance but no-one is going to able to help you with pure naivety of a process that you clearly do not know. I would seriously advise you to speak to a local architect, qs,etc in respect to been more realistic with your ideas.

What do you mean 10k contribution? Is this on top of the site fee

hiho1967

Going Demented wrote: »

Not a hope. We are starting a build soon. Here are some of what's been paid and what the quotes are bearing in mind some are family. This is your basic rectangle bungalow, 3 bedrooms and all you state above.

Solicitor for transfer of land, stamp duty and land registry fees, which bear in mind go up in December. 2240
Land Valued - 123
Build Insurance - 1077
Windows - 9193
ESB - 1807
Blocks - 3400
Plastering labour only (family member) - 6,800
Block Layer - 4,200
Plumber labour only - 2,500
Plumbing material's - 8,000

I'll stop there as i am on 40k and that's not even foundations, concrete and everything else that goes with it. No roof or all that goes with it. No septic tank. No drive to get vehicles in. No insulations, no electrics and on and on and on.

Windows 10k. I know someone who paid 5k for 13 windows, 2 double sliding doors, back front doors etc back in 2004. Ill be needing less windows and only 1 double door and couldnt see it being more that5k

tfker

Its 2012 mate not 2004 get a grip of yourself youll need 100k to finish your house and that wont be a bad price for a new house on your own site

hiho1967

tfker wrote: »

Its 2012 mate not 2004 get a grip of yourself youll need 100k to finish your house and that wont be a bad price for a new house on your own site

100k so much for my wishful thinking:D tho i know its 2012/13 but prices havent doubled for windows and esp for not as many. I just cant see how if someone paid 5k in 2004 for more windows how it could be even more expensive for less. Id say 6k at max for what im looking for windows

Poor Uncle Tom

hiho1967 wrote: »

What do you mean 10k contribution? Is this on top of the site fee

This has nothing to do with site fee, this is a Local Authority Tax levied on new builds, based on the floor area of the proposed house and levied on services provided which facilitate the development, such as roads, community, water, sewerage and waste water whichever is applicable. You will get further information from your Local Authority planning department.

hiho1967 wrote: »

Windows 10k. I know someone who paid 5k for 13 windows, 2 double sliding doors, back front doors etc back in 2004.

Another good one is "I heard down the pub..."
You can't compare 2 jobs that are 8 years apart and you won't be able to get a quotation on windows and doors until you have plans for your house.

hiho1967 wrote: »

Ill be needing less windows and only 1 double door and couldnt see it being more that 5k

A budget can't be set on guess work.

Poor Uncle Tom

tfker wrote: »

Its 2012 mate not 2004 get a grip of yourself youll need 100k to finish your house and that wont be a bad price for a new house on your own site

There's no point throwing figures out there until you know the type of construction and the size of the build. Until then figures like 100k mean nothing.

enricoh

if u've 40k for building alone (ie after solicitor, council, esb, architect etc) u'd get the house near protected from the elements anyway. did the groundwork for the sisters n laboured for the bricky 3 years ago. concrete n blocks are cheap, its stuff like the lead for the roof that u get the shock with.
my advice would be build decent size not small, that way u dont have to lob on an extension on later. live in a mobile on site for a couple of years n as u get dough in chip away at it

hiho1967

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

This has nothing to do with site fee, this is a Local Authority Tax levied on new builds, based on the floor area of the proposed house and levied on services provided which facilitate the development, such as roads, community, water, sewerage and waste water whichever is applicable. You will get further information from your Local Authority planning department.


Another good one is "I heard down the pub..."
You can't compare 2 jobs that are 8 years apart and you won't be able to get a quotation on windows and doors until you have plans for your house.

A budget can't be set on guess work.

When did the local authority tax on new builds come into effect. This is the first time ive ever heard of this.


I know i cant really compare 2 jobs 8 years apart but if i where to take the two same orders 8 yrs apart, i couldnt see them doubling in price. I know things have got out of hand but not this much.

Poor Uncle Tom

hiho1967 wrote: »

When did the local authority tax on new builds come into effect. This is the first time ive ever heard of this.

Planning & Development Act 2000, came into effect in 2002.

hiho1967

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5280/29702619223614418766334.jpg

hiho1967

Something like this above

hiho1967

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Planning & Development Act 2000, came into effect in 2002.

So any new build that has been built since 2002 has had to pay 10k or there abouts to the local council to build a house. I know 4 people who have built houses in galway and mayo since then and not one of them has heard of this. Im just of the phone to one now and hes never heard of this also.

hiho1967

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8032/31731719223620085432410.jpg

Poor Uncle Tom

Never heard of planning contributions?
Galway you say, don't take my word for it....

http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/Planning/DevelopmentContributionScheme/
http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/Planning/DevelopmentContributionScheme/

hiho1967

Just a small bit bigger than this. I think this is a 2 bed,1 bath room,garage etc. I would be happy with 3 beds and 1 bath room with kitchen/living room.

hiho1967

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Never heard of planning contributions?
Galway you say, don't take my word for it....

http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/Planning/DevelopmentContributionScheme/
http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/Planning/DevelopmentContributionScheme/

The world has gone mad :mad: I now take your word for it and to tell you the truth, this is shocking. Have you any info on the contributions for sligo/mayo counties

Poor Uncle Tom

Sligo
http://www.sligococo.ie/Services/Planning/DevelopmentContributions/

Mayo
http://www.mayococo.ie/en/Planning/Publications/MayoDocuments/

It is shocking and not fair, just another tax.

hiho1967

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Sligo
http://www.sligococo.ie/Services/Planning/DevelopmentContributions/

Mayo
http://www.mayococo.ie/en/Planning/Publications/MayoDocuments/

It is shocking and not fair, just another tax.

Will this have any effect on the housing market as it is and can you see it getting more expensive than it already is

hiho1967

Just looking through all the places near the site im looking at and it seems it isnt on the list. Does this mean i wont have to pay any contributions or would these contributions be throughout the county.

kkelliher

hiho1967 wrote: »

Just looking through all the places near the site im looking at and it seems it isnt on the list. Does this mean i wont have to pay any contributions or would these contributions be throughout the county.

Every county in the country has this in place for years and years.

I really cant express how out of your depth you appear to be on this issue. Please sit down with someone who will line by line cost your idea and help you be realistic otherwise you are heading for a financial disaster

bbam

I'd say if you want to stay within that budget you'd be better keep away from a new build..
Have a look through the rural areas, there are a good few older liveable cottages for sale in the €35K-€40K range. By the sounds of your budget it would give you maybe €15k for renovations..

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/homeport-cottage-gortaha-portumna-co-galway/2218697

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/corry-strand-corry-drumkeeran-co-leitrim/2201143

sheff the ref

I would say based on rough estimates that €70,000 to €75,000 would get you into a bungalow of about 1500 square feet with minimum insulation specs and windows etc. but you would only have literally a bedroom, kitchen, ensuite, and living room done to a very basic spec.

Eradicating heat loss is essential and doesnt cost an awful lot extra to resolve at the beginning of a project. Realistically you want to be putting triple glazed windows on the Northern side of the house that doesnt see the sun, depending on your site geography. For example in my house I am looking at using 50mm insulated plasterboards inside the external walls and 150mm cavities pumped with insulation. My sunroom will have an external PVC door as it will seal it off from the house in icy conditions. My uncle built a sunroom onto the side of the kitchen with an existing external double door. It is some job. A cousin has a similar house and the sunroom is like a fridge in minus conditions.

hiho1967

sheff the ref wrote: »

I would say based on rough estimates that €70,000 to €75,000 would get you into a bungalow of about 1500 square feet with minimum insulation specs and windows etc. but you would only have literally a bedroom, kitchen, ensuite, and living room done to a very basic spec.

Eradicating heat loss is essential and doesnt cost an awful lot extra to resolve at the beginning of a project. Realistically you want to be putting triple glazed windows on the Northern side of the house that doesnt see the sun, depending on your site geography. For example in my house I am looking at using 50mm insulated plasterboards inside the external walls and 150mm cavities pumped with insulation. My sunroom will have an external PVC door as it will seal it off from the house in icy conditions. My uncle built a sunroom onto the side of the kitchen with an existing external double door. It is some job. A cousin has a similar house and the sunroom is like a fridge in minus conditions.

I think the world has gone abit crazy with all this insulation/sealing up the house etc. Id be happy with building regs standard. I come from a time where we didnt have central heating so if the worst came to the worst, id be happy enough with an open fire with a back boiler to heat a few rads.

sheff the ref

Insulation is not overly expensive relatively speaking. A well insulated house retains heat to such a level that the heating costs are virtually minimal. My own personal belief is that based on my circumstances, I would be foolish not to go overboard on the insulation.

The cost savings begin once you start to live in the house.

hiho1967 wrote: »

I think the world has gone abit crazy with all this insulation/sealing up the house etc. Id be happy with building regs standard. I come from a time where we didnt have central heating so if the worst came to the worst, id be happy enough with an open fire with a back boiler to heat a few rads.

Poor Uncle Tom

hiho1967 wrote: »

I think the world has gone abit crazy with all this insulation/sealing up the house etc. Id be happy with building regs standard. I come from a time where we didnt have central heating so if the worst came to the worst, id be happy enough with an open fire with a back boiler to heat a few rads.

Another reason why an existing house would probably suit you better.

bbam

hiho1967 wrote: »

I think the world has gone abit crazy with all this insulation/sealing up the house etc. Id be happy with building regs standard. I come from a time where we didnt have central heating so if the worst came to the worst, id be happy enough with an open fire with a back boiler to heat a few rads.

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Another reason why an existing house would probably suit you better.

Definitely get yourself an older cottage in need of some TLC.. Far more bang for buck and there are lots out there that well deserve rescuing... You might even get an out building or two and a decent garden, neither to be underestimated.

sheff the ref

The big problem with old houses is that regardless of the measures taken, dampness can be very difficult to eradicate completely.

anastasia2

apart form site price, €60,000 ish paid out for new build 2 years ago, heating for now is an open fire n stove with back boiler. . basic kitchen. 3 bedrms, kitchen, sittin room bathroom, 1 ensuite. living in it but various bits n bobs to complete yet. It can be done if you check and price around. plumbers, plasterers, electricians, builders can be hired on a self employed basis and paid cash. plumber and electrician about 6- 7,000 each for basic layout. Basically your aim should be a closed in house that is insulated and plastered with water and heat and electricity. The rest is cosmetic and can be done through time. Oh and senator windows are v reasonable.

sheff the ref

What square footage was that? What is the variation in terms of Window Quality???

john_cappa

sheff the ref wrote: »

I would say based on rough estimates that €70,000 to €75,000 would get you into a bungalow of about 1500 square feet with minimum insulation specs and windows etc. but you would only have literally a bedroom, kitchen, ensuite, and living room done to a very basic spec.

Eradicating heat loss is essential and doesnt cost an awful lot extra to resolve at the beginning of a project. Realistically you want to be putting triple glazed windows on the Northern side of the house that doesnt see the sun, depending on your site geography. For example in my house I am looking at using 50mm insulated plasterboards inside the external walls and 150mm cavities pumped with insulation. My sunroom will have an external PVC door as it will seal it off from the house in icy conditions. My uncle built a sunroom onto the side of the kitchen with an existing external double door. It is some job. A cousin has a similar house and the sunroom is like a fridge in minus conditions.

Pretty sure anyone who knows anything about insulation will advise heavily against the above.

anastasia2

sheff the ref wrote: »

What square footage was that? What is the variation in terms of Window Quality???

20ftx30ft with about 12x30ft floorspace upstairs and side attics + top of roof attic for water tanks, cable runs , pipes etc. dormer type design without the dormer windows, gable only. Window quality?? double glazed pvc white is the basic really, Im sure there are variations that will push up the price depending on what you want but thats what we went for for now. no heat loss probs afaik.

tfker

john_cappa wrote: »

Pretty sure anyone who knows anything about insulation will advise heavily against the above.

What is the problem with this john?the 150mm?is 100mm cavity and 50mm board inside enough?

The Parrot

i dont think that will hit the building regs of a u value of .21.

and 2 there are alot of people going away from insulated plaster board due some people complain of moisture build up i think

sheff the ref

What is your suggested alternative for a block wall house???

The Parrot wrote: »

i dont think that will hit the building regs of a u value of .21.

and 2 there are alot of people going away from insulated plaster board due some people complain of moisture build up i think

sydthebeat

The Parrot wrote: »

i dont think that will hit the building regs of a u value of .21.

and 2 there are alot of people going away from insulated plaster board due some people complain of moisture build up i think

Where have you picked the figure 0.21 from?

The Parrot

in the building regulations act. part l 2011.

sydthebeat

The Parrot wrote: »

in the building regulations act. part l 2011.

you must understand that the figures given in Column 2 of table 1 TGD L 2011
do not automatically infer compliance with the regulation.

That section deals with building fabric alone. It gives average weighted elemental values for building elements, and also suggests maximum values for parts of that fabric that may be "less insulated" for design of construction reasons.

However.....

Compliance with the regulations include a lot more than just building fabric.
It includes other issues such as:
heating sources
heating emitters
heating controls
renewable application
thermal mass
air tightness
ventilation

etc etc

Its very possible, and most likely in my opinion, that if you use the figures contained in column 2 as target figures, you will not meet the regulations in most cases.

The ONLY way to show prima facie compliance is by assessment in DEAP.

The Parrot

well yea.. umm i wasnt implying anything other than the wall nothing else. i wasnt commenting on anything else apart for that specify wall build up. nothing else.

so your replay is slightly out of context with what i was posting. i was not suggesting just by doing the wall right it would past

sinnerboy

The Parrot wrote: »

i dont think that will hit the building regs of a u value of .21.

No one is having a go at you here but it is important for all to understand that there are no "minimum U Values" any more in the way "minimum U Values" used to be understood. We now have "backstop U Values".

What's the difference ? There was a time not too long ago where you could simply meet min u values and move on to the next task at hand.

Now we have to run all items ( U Values , air tightness , thermal bridges , ventilation , heating method ) through DEAP. In the case of U Values - it is often the case that , depending on what you are doing for air tightness , thermal bridges , ventilation , heating method that you must return to the U Values and improve them past the backstop values.

So minimum U Value ( no longer applicable in todays regs ) used to mean - the U Value that you can use.

Backstop U Value means the value you start off with in DEAP - knowing that very very often it will need to be improved.

sydthebeat

The Parrot wrote: »

well yea.. umm i wasnt implying anything other than the wall nothing else. i wasnt commenting on anything else apart for that specify wall build up. nothing else.

so your replay is slightly out of context with what i was posting. i was not suggesting just by doing the wall right it would past

i was only putting your post INTO context... you are the one that made reference to the building regs......

i was not suggesting just by doing the wall right it would past

(sic)
im not quite sure what you mean by this......

if it doesnt pass then its not right.