Cassette Removal

Cee-Jay-Cee

I'm going to treat myself to new wheels at christmas and would like to change them over myself. I have read up and watched you tube videos on how to remove the cassette but what i need to know is, do i absolutely need a chain whip and locking tool to remove/change it? I have a garage full of tools as I do all my own work on mine and my families cars so are there any regular tools i can use or do i need those specific tools?

Holyboy

CJC999 wrote: »

I'm going to treat myself to new wheels at christmas and would like to change them over myself. I have read up and watched you tube videos on how to remove the cassette but what i need to know is, do i absolutely need a chain whip and locking tool to remove/change it? I have a garage full of tools as I do all my own work on mine and my families cars so are there any regular tools i can use or do i need those specific tools?

In short no, you need the proper tools, it is possible to make a chain whip but both tools are fairly cheap these days so you may as well splash out, you will have them for many years if only used occasionally.

Hungrycol

CJC999 wrote: »

I'm going to treat myself to new wheels at christmas and would like to change them over myself. I have read up and watched you tube videos on how to remove the cassette but what i need to know is, do i absolutely need a chain whip and locking tool to remove/change it? I have a garage full of tools as I do all my own work on mine and my families cars so are there any regular tools i can use or do i need those specific tools?

Specific tools. Don't know of or heard anyone bodge a removal tool for a cassette. Chain whip would be pretty easy to recreate if you have a chain breaker but the locking nut is a must and only about a tenner.

seven stars

You need the freewheel removal tool (or whatever the little locking nut thing is called), but as Hungrycol said, you can get them very cheap - a tenner or less.

A friend of mine reckons you can get away without a chain whip by just using a rag to hold the cassette in place, but I tried with all my might (spent ages at it!) and no joy. I eventually drove down to the bike shop, bought a chain whip, and the thing was off in a matter of seconds. Chain whips are fairly cheap as well.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Ok thanks all, I'll just buy them I guess and like said, I'll always have them. So now to my second question, I will probably buy one of those multi-piece tool kits but I have no idea when it comes to bike tool brands so are there any brands to avoid and what ones are recommended?

RidleyRider

CJC999 wrote: »

Ok thanks all, I'll just buy them I guess and like said, I'll always have them. So now to my second question, I will probably buy one of those multi-piece tool kits but I have no idea when it comes to bike tool brands so are there any brands to avoid and what ones are recommended?

BBB and park tool are reputable brands.

Canis Lupus

CJC999 wrote: »

Ok thanks all, I'll just buy them I guess and like said, I'll always have them. So now to my second question, I will probably buy one of those multi-piece tool kits but I have no idea when it comes to bike tool brands so are there any brands to avoid and what ones are recommended?

Multitools are useful if you're touring but if like you said you've a shed of tools already then there's nothing much a multitool will add as I imagine you already have allen/hex keys and a multitool often won't let you get into some nooks and crannies whereas a normal allen key will (and you get better torque off a normal key).

The only extra you might get is a chainbreaker on one but again they're cheap to buy on their own and usually better as a result.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Sorry i think you misunderstood, I meant the tool kits with chain whip, crank remover, BB removal tool, chain breaker tool etc etc

SomeFool

If your based in cork I have tools you can borrow, just drop me a pm

route66

CJC999 wrote: »

Sorry i think you misunderstood, I meant the tool kits with chain whip, crank remover, BB removal tool, chain breaker tool etc etc

I got mine in Lidl/ Aldi some time back. I've used it for replacing casettes and other work. The quality is fine.

Cee-Jay-Cee

SomeFool wrote: »

If your based in cork I have tools you can borrow, just drop me a pm

Thanks for the offer but i'm at the opposite end of the country to you.

route66 wrote: »

I got mine in Lidl/ Aldi some time back. I've used it for replacing casettes and other work. The quality is fine.

I seen those kits in Aldi a few months ago, i'm sorry now i didn't buy one.

gman2k

You can get a similar tool kit in Halfords for around the same money...

Tonyandthewhale

Like others have said, you can bodge a chainwhip if you've got some spare chain (and a chain-breaker usually) but it's not really worth the hassle. The lockring remover is essential unless you can borrow one.

As regards buying tools, I have a set from Park and I like them, I get a lot of use out of them though looking after my own fairly extensive fleet of bikes plus family and friends. If I was only working on my own bikes I'd be happy with halfords or the like. I've heard they're fairly good for the money.

okane1

If you have a vice, just get the lockring remover. Put that tool onto the cassette lockring, clamp the lockring remover into a vice and spin the wheel. Cassette will come right off. Done it a few times myself with no issues.

Hungrycol

okane1 wrote: »

If you have a vice, just get the lockring remover. Put that tool onto the cassette lockring, clamp the lockring remover into a vice and spin the wheel. Cassette will come right off. Done it a few times myself with no issues.

Can't get my head around this... you mean clamp the cassette? The tool turns (loosens) in the same direction as the freewheel so my brain can't compute this...

C3PO

Hungrycol wrote: »

Can't get my head around this... you mean clamp the cassette? The tool turns (loosens) in the same direction as the freewheel so my brain can't compute this...

I tried as well .... but I have a chain whip and don't have a vice ..... so I just gave up!!

route66

Hungrycol wrote: »

Can't get my head around this... you mean clamp the cassette? The tool turns (loosens) in the same direction as the freewheel so my brain can't compute this...

I'm guessing because he is turning the wheel rather than the freewheel, it works to loosen the cassette retainer?

youtheman

You only need the chainwhip when you are loosening the cassette (as the anti-torque you are applying with the wrench to the lockring turns the casette via the freewheel). When you are tightening the cassette (i.e. turning the opposite way) then the anti-torque will lock the cassette (the cassette only freewheels in one direction). So all you have to do is keep a good grip on the wheel to stop the whole lot turning.

If you know what I mean !!!!!

clog

The vice and wheel turning method works with old screw on freewheels as where the tool sits is tightened directly to the hub . It will not work with a cassette freehub system as you have effectively nothing to turn against unless you hold back the freehub unit by some means to gain some purchase against the lockring .

jimbo28

Buy the 2 tools. they are quite handy to have.I would take off the cassettes on my training wheels at least once if not twice every two weeks for cleaning.

okane1

Hungrycol wrote: »

Can't get my head around this... you mean clamp the cassette? The tool turns (loosens) in the same direction as the freewheel so my brain can't compute this...

Put the cassette removal tool into a vice. Once in the vice, place your wheel over the removal tool and spin the wheel to the left to loosen. You do the same procedure when tighten the cassette, just spin the wheel to the right.

doozerie

With cassettes, the locknut screws into the freehub (not the hub) and trying to remove/unscrew the locknut will rotate the freehub in the direction that it freewheels i.e. no resistance. So you have to stop the freehub from turning, and the most practical means of doing so is by holding it in place with a chainwhip on the cassette. No amount of holding the wheel will work as an alternative.

There used to be a variation on the locknut remover tool which had "ears" on it. You'd take the wheel off, sit the tool into the locknut, and re-sit the wheel into the frame. One of the ears rested against your seat stay or your chain stay preventing the tool from rotating, so when you pressed on a pedal you rotated the cassette+freehub while keeping the locknut stationary. The effect was to unscrew the lockring. And possibly damage your stay, or give you a hernia, or both.

doozerie

okane1 wrote: »

Put the cassette removal tool into a vice. Once in the vice, place your wheel over the removal tool and spin the wheel to the left to loosen. You do the same procedure when tighten the cassette, just spin the wheel to the right.

That only works with older freewheels, where the "cassette" basically has the bearings built into it. Freewheels as a single unit thread directly onto the hub, so if you hold the freewheel in place and rotate the hub (or vice versa) the freewheel unscrews. It doesn't work with modern freehubs when trying to remove the cassettes.

okane1

Ah, now to think of it, I did it on an old wheel. Never tried it on the modern stuff. Sorry!

youtheman

jimbo28 wrote: »

Buy the 2 tools. they are quite handy to have.I would take off the cassettes on my training wheels at least once if not twice every two weeks for cleaning.

Are you supposed to replace the locknut washer every time you remove the cassette?

C3PO

youtheman wrote: »

Are you supposed to replace the locknut washer every time you remove the cassette?

No .... or at least I hope not!

youtheman

C3PO wrote: »

No .... or at least I hope not!

I've always wondered if you are supposed to replace it. It's so thin and frangible that it sems to be destroyed by the time you remove it. Not sure if it does the job (whatever that is supposed to be) once you reinstall it.

Flandria

Be careful if you are getting Mavic wheels as you must fit the specific Mavic washer as well as the Shimano one

check_six

Last time I switched a cassette I learned some valuable lessons:

1. Using your quick release spindle to keep the unlocking tool from slipping out of a shallow shimano lock ring as you try to wrestle with the chain whip and the spanner in your two 'available' hands is smart.

2. Tightening your quick release spindle so much that you cannot loosen the lock ring is dumb, real dumb.

Use these rules wisely, Mr. Bitter Experience gave them to me!

blorg

Flandria wrote: »

Be careful if you are getting Mavic wheels as you must fit the specific Mavic washer as well as the Shimano one

That's a spacer, not a washer, and it goes on the wheel side, rather than the lockring side. I've certainly never replaced the lockring washer and have changed my cassettes plenty.

You can actually get a special tiny lockring tool that allows you to remove the cassette without a chain whip (I use one touring) but for general use, certainly get both tools.

Flandria

blorg wrote: »

That's a spacer, not a washer, and it goes on the wheel side, rather than the lockring side. I've certainly never replaced the lockring washer and have changed my cassettes plenty.

You can actually get a special tiny lockring tool that allows you to remove the cassette without a chain whip (I use one touring) but for general use, certainly get both tools.

Correct, my bad

cdaly_

doozerie wrote: »

No amount of holding the wheel will work as an alternative.

Ah, I remember many, many (many many many) years ago, trying to remove a freewheel without the tool. I rigged up two chainwhips and used one to stop the freewheel from turning while trying to turn it with the other! It took quite a while before I understood...

triggermortis

As for buying tools - I got a decent enough set from Decathlon (there's a shop in Belfast but I got mine in Liege) and Halfords do one

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_522915_langId_-1_categoryId_212639

which looks similar to mine, but a bit dearer (mine cost 25 euro)

Cee-Jay-Cee

Thanks everyone, i think i'll get the halfords kit as there is a store near me and overall it gets good reviews.

Canis Lupus

CJC999 wrote: »

Thanks everyone, i think i'll get the halfords kit as there is a store near me and overall it gets good reviews.

Removing a cassette is a really ridiculously easy process (despite some of the chat on this thread being a bit confusing). It's as simple as pop in the bolt thingy, hold cassette with chainwhip and unscrew with spanner. The new cassette will only go on one way and then reverse the process.

No idea how expensive the halfords kit is but don't buy anything fancy (or unnecessarily expensive just because it has a brand name like Halfords on it) you really really don't need 'quality' tools for this particular job. If you can get a chainwhip and lockring thingy off CRC cheaper then get them.

Cee-Jay-Cee

The halfords kit is 43euro

tomasrojo

clog wrote: »

The vice and wheel turning method works with old screw on freewheels

Removing the screw-on freewheel after six months or so of cycling was always quite a work out, since cycling effectively screwed the freewheel on tighter, and tighter, and tighter.

Canis Lupus

CJC999 wrote: »

The halfords kit is 43euro

Lockring and chainwhip together are less than 20e off CRC (free delivery). Your money (assuming you already have a spanner out in your shed)

blorg

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Lockring and chainwhip together are less than 20e off CRC (free delivery). Your money (assuming you already have a spanner out in your shed)

The Halfords kit at €43 is a full bike toolkit with 18 other tools (chain tool, spoke wrench, headset/hub spanners, crank tool, bottom bracket tools and so on) that basically includes everything he'll need for any future job on the bike. It's always cheaper to buy a kit than build them up individually.

Canis Lupus

blorg wrote: »

The Halfords kit at €43 is a full bike toolkit with 18 other tools (chain tool, spoke wrench, headset/hub spanners, crank tool, bottom bracket tools and so on) that basically includes everything he'll need for any future job on the bike. It's always cheaper to buy a kit than build them up individually.

That's fair enough then.