Becoming a pilot

Nanobrady

hi guys,
Im 17 and im in 5th year in secondry school, im really intrested in becoming a airline pilot. Im really eagar for this to happen and would do anything for it.
I just need to know a few things

Grades
Do grades in school effect weather or not you can become one? do you need any subject requirements or any certin levels and grades?

How to finance
Whats the best way to finance the 70k-100k needed for training?

Worthwile?
Is it worthwile? could i end up paying the course and not get taking on by a airliner?

Best and easyist way?
Whats the best way? like here in Ireland or abroad? and the way easyist of getting it?

Do I need a PPL?
Do I need one to do the pilot course?

Thanks so much for your time, please post any additional information if you feel its needed as i want to soak in as much as i can its a life long dream to become one and would do anything i can to reach my goal

jamo2oo9

GRADES?
Flight Schools will take you in regardless of your grades, it's the Airlines that will decide your placement in their airline. If you didn't do well in JC or LC, your chances of getting hired is lower than those who did well in LC or something equivalent.

HOW TO FINANCE
The only way to finance it is if your parents make a fortune, at least 80k or more each year and are will to pay for your training or you can take a student loan from the banks.
Another way is the cadetship programme. You will have to pay for half of it with BA, not sure about EI.

WORTHWHILE?
If you are unsure, take an introductory flight at your local airfield and see if you enjoy it or not.

BEST AND EASIEST WAY?
There is no best or easiest way. The aviation industry is ever changing and it is a very competitive place to work in.

DO I NEED A PPL?
No, flight schools will take you in and train you from 0hrs to 1000hrs with a fATPL

If there's any errors, feel free to correct me.

greedygoblin

Take a gander at some of the threads over in the Aviation & Aircraft forum. Lots of useful information there.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=905

pow wow

Moved to Aviation & Aircraft.

You should get more responses there.

Ken812

EI were asking for 50k upfront, then the remaining 50k would be taken from you over a period of years once you started working with them. So even if you are lucky enough to make it through the various rounds of selection, it still requires a lot of idle cash, or at least the ability to get your hands on a loan.

From what i gathered, the BA pilot scheme is fully sponsored, with your security deposit paid back to you over your first 7 years of employment. So again, even this option requires a lot of money, or the ability to get a loan.

For those lucky people who get selected, this is the only way to become a pilot at a relatively young age. Otherwise just study hard, get yourself a degree (which is very appealing to airlines during cadetships) and then get a job. Getting into the aviation business in your late 20s to early 30s is still young, so don't feel like you have to rush into becoming a pilot.

Good luck in the future!

Jhcx

You should check out CTCwings
They have a good load of info on what is taught, and finance required. Im currently applying for their cadet program. As i failed to meet the criteria for the BA future pilot program. AFAIK you dont need many high grades with them. There Criteria to get in is pretty straight forward. course you need your basic's maths, English and a science subject.

CTC is in the UK. If your willing to leave home its not bad. It takes about 1 year and 7 months to get your fATPL which pretty much makes you a pilot. you spend 5 months in the uk and then 8 months in New Zealand before returning back to UK for 8 weeks. CTC have partner airlines so you should be able to get a placement with an Airline that's where you'll go on to get your TR.

From reading the CTC site they talk about costing 69k and they could get you a loan of 59k and im sure there is more hidden in there. Reading the BAFPP they say it cost 80k but your should get a loan of 100k just to be covered (100k Should cover living expenses as well) A loan would be your best option as you can probably make an arrangement to start paying back when you begin working(But BA speak about paying you back the 80k of the next 7 years, thats a 1,000 extra a month back to you, cant wrap my head round that yet.). Although its not easy to try and get a loan of that much.

By the time you reach leaving cert you should be 18/19 and maybe ba might have the program open again. your best go through the company as they can get you sponsored and make it easier to get a loan. But of course it has to be said if you fail, its a financial risk. Even if Aer Lingus have it open apply with them.

I hope that helps. Sorry for just choosing the one aviation school its all i know about and im currently in the process of applying. Best luck in what ever route you choose.

Lustrum

Just to clarify Ken812's figures....

The Aer Lingus cadets were actually asked to pay 25k, with the rest being paid for by the company. This was by a long shot the best deal going anywhere for Irish guys. However, there's all sorts of rumours about cadets being kicked out for failing exams, not being able for the flying etc, so don't know if/when that will run again.

BA's Future Pilot Programme was "fully sponsored", however the security bond was £84,000 - it's about as fully sponsored as my backside! And if you didn't have the security bond, your folks house would do as collateral. While this would guarantee a job with BA, it was a much more expensive deal that AL. I think they could be taking applicants for next year at the moment, the info will be online.

Cathay Pacific have a cadet programme open to everyone, there's a freeze on advanced entry places but I think the full cadetship is still running all the time. You'll find it on their website.

My advice would be don't go straight into this at 18, unless it's a cadetship. Get a job, save as much as you can, and get some experience doing something else so when you're job-hunting, you have something else to do. Along with death and taxes, having to wait to get a pilot job is probably the third certainty in life.

Good luck with whatever you do

Cessna_Pilot

I'd sooner hand over my hard earned 100k to PTC than CTC....

bluecode

Just as the others say and:

Nanobrady wrote: »

Grades

Pilots are generally well educated. Like any technical job you need to be intelligent enough to grasp the complexities. So if you're rubbish at school you may struggle a bit. But you should be looking at getting the points to get into college. Because it can take many years to get into a position to employable as a pilot. Flight schools don't care about grades but cadetships do.

How to finance

Parents often come up with the money. If not then you have to find it yourself. You could borrow it, but how likely is that anymore? So saving up is a common option. Hence the suggestion to go to college get a good well paid job and save or borrow the money. It's ironic that in order to become a successful pilot you often have to be very successful in another career. But there is no easy answer.

Worthwile?

You might want to ask people who've finished training, this year, last year and the year before who are still waiting, still looking. Yes you may never get work as a pilot. It's a gamble. But you have to ask yourself your motivation. Do you want to fly for a living or do you fancy being an airline pilot because it looks like a cool career. There's a subtle difference. I meet many of the latter and they often struggle because they look down their nose on other flying jobs. There is a lot of sacrifice and compromise involved in being a pilot and not everyone realises that.

Best and easyist way?

There are no easy ways. The best way is to start training with a guaranteed job at the end. That never happens any more.

Do I need a PPL?

No, but you should look at getting one for yourself. At least take a few lessons anyway and see if you enjoy it. You would be surprised how many people think they want to be pilots but after a few hours realise it's not for them.

You say you'll do anything to be a pilot. I hear that a lot. Make sure you really mean it. But there's a lot time and effort and expense involved. The people who succeed do mean it. But even some of them fall by the wayside. If you don't mean it you'll struggle.

LeftBase

I'd sooner give my wallet to the wallet inspector than go near CTC with their "partner airlines". CTC actually fails to meet some of the criteria on their training courses that their "partner airlines" require. If you pass the course you go into a holding pool and are contracted to sit in that holding pool with no pay for as long as they want you to(there's reports of people in it 3 years) This means that you are tied to the airline holding you and cannot go elsewhere. The airlines they partner with are Easyjet and Flybe mostly(BA have their cadetship there I think) and trust me they are 2 airlines you do not want to enter in to with large debts, because your pay will not cover them plus cost of living very well!...............plus I'm told by those of a similar nationality who went through the Easyjet wings course that having drunken potato eating Irish there brings the place down in CTC's estimation!;)

Go modular kid at NFC or Atlantic...sure they have sold themselves out totally with their integrated courses but hey.....why not!:rolleyes:! Dont get scammed by uniforms and bright lights!

nabanoba

LeftBase wrote: »

I'd sooner give my wallet to the wallet inspector than go near CTC with their "partner airlines". CTC actually fails to meet some of the criteria on their training courses that their "partner airlines" require. If you pass the course you go into a holding pool and are contracted to sit in that holding pool with no pay for as long as they want you to(there's reports of people in it 3 years) This means that you are tied to the airline holding you and cannot go elsewhere. The airlines they partner with are Easyjet and Flybe mostly(BA have their cadetship there I think) and trust me they are 2 airlines you do not want to enter in to with large debts, because your pay will not cover them plus cost of living very well!...............plus I'm told by those of a similar nationality who went through the Easyjet wings course that having drunken potato eating Irish there brings the place down in CTC's estimation!

Go modular kid at NFC or Atlantic...sure they have sold themselves out totally with their integrated courses but hey.....why not!:rolleyes:! Dont get scammed by uniforms and bright lights!

I'm sorry leftbase, but your comment is full of hyperbole. For a start what part of the training criteria do CTC miss? Also 3 years in the holding pool is simply not true, up to two years for the misfortunates who graduated late 2008, early 2009 was the highest. As for the bolded bit, don't be ridiculous.

There are many ways to have a go at CTC without resorting to nonsense. Upping the price to 17,000 sterling for their 'foundation course' basically a glorified PPL, agreeing to send pilots on 'Flexicrew' contracts with Easyjet and threatening the T&C's of the whole industry are amongst them.

Jhcx

I have gone to selection and been selected for the CTC Wings course, if you need any info on the selection day or the place in general feel free to PM me. However I would be very careful about reading CTC's documentation and doing all the research you can about the place before you even pay a visit. For example the cost is much more than you quoted previously. Research is paramount in deciding where to train, there's a 200+ page thread on CTC on pprune.org that'd be a good place to start.

nabanoba

Hey Nanobrady. I've spent the last year and a half pondering the best ways of getting into the airline industry, there are so many ways in that some of your questions don't have a simple answer but I'll give them a shot!
Grades
Get as high grades as possible and study Physics and Maths. The best way to get into the aviation industry is through a Cadetship either with BA, Shamrock or others. To get on these you need decent grades at the LC. BA are the toughest at the moment they ask for 3 subjects at BBC or above. So you don't need to get 600 points or anything, but need to be a solid student.

If you want to go the modular or integrated routes at a flight school the grades aren't important as long as you pass. But I would still recommend having good grades as bad ones don't look good on anyone's record.
How to finance
Again the best way to finance is through a cadetship. They will help you secure a loan and some even pay back the cost of training. Aside from that, if your parents own there house with the mortgage paid off and are willing to finance you, you can get a loan against the value of their property called a secured loan. Downsides to this are if you fail your parents could lose there house. Aside from this get a high paid job.

Worthwile?
Yes in all likelihood if you do a course for a flight school you will end up having a very difficult job search whilst being in a huge amount of debt. If this scares you then it isn't worthwhile.

Ways to avoid this are again, get on a cadetship or a tagged scheme where you are selected by an airline before training. You pay for your own training but are guaranteed a job afterwards.

Some flight schools like CTC have partner airlines where they will try and place you after you finish training. This can be a good way into the industry but beware CTC might place you on a poorly paid non-permanent contract or not place you at all.

Best and easyist way?
Again A cadetship or tagged scheme. Aside from this the cheapest schools in Europe with a decent reputation are Bartolini Air for Modular at around 55k and Egnatia aviation for Integrated at around 60k. There is no guarantee of getting a job after these schemes.

Do I need a PPL?
No, but if you can afford it it would be a great introduction to flying and would show you if it is something that you really love and whether you have the aptitude for it.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask. But the best tip I can give you is to research as much as possible.

Pilotdude5

As a recently qualified pilot I know how tough it is. I did my training over 3 and a half years while working. I was lucky enough to making 400 euro a week at 18 and I paid for my PPL, ATPL's and hourbuilding myself. Then part time work dried up and I struggled to get a loan for the rest but I managed it. I'm now only 17k in debt(LOL 'only'!!) but there's no way I can afford a type rating. I cant even get a part-time job anywhere. It didn't bother me before but when I see 19, 20 and 21 year old's walking into jobs now having paid for 28000 for them its horrible. I haven't lost the love for flying and I am confident I will eventually get a job, but its going to be a tough few years.

Anyway's rant over!:p

LeftBase

nabanoba wrote: »

I'm sorry leftbase, but your comment is full of hyperbole. For a start what part of the training criteria do CTC miss? Also 3 years in the holding pool is simply not true, up to two years for the misfortunates who graduated late 2008, early 2009 was the highest. As for the bolded bit, don't be ridiculous.

CTC were allowing Easyjet sponsored students progress to CPL/IR despite Easyjet setting strict minimum grades for ATPL exams. This was only uncovered by accident when a student's training record was being reviewed following an incident during base training.

There are FOs joining Easyjet now that have been in the holding pool over 3 years paying their own cost to keep themselves current in regards IR. This is one of the primary reasons people steer clear of the Easywings course, it's a ball and chain with no guarantees!
As for the "bolded bit"...well if you take that as literally as you seem to have then I can only assume you don't have much experience of flying in Britain with the Nigels.:D

There are many ways to have a go at CTC without resorting to nonsense. Upping the price to 17,000 sterling for their 'foundation course' basically a glorified PPL, agreeing to send pilots on 'Flexicrew' contracts with Easyjet and threatening the T&C's of the whole industry are amongst them.

Selection days for courses would be another....like a school sports day!...everyone wins!!:rolleyes:

CTC's sponsored schemes require an awful lot more looking into than you seem to think.

phonypony

Might be of interest to the OP if he hasn't yet had a trial flight :

'Flightwise at Weston Aerodrome are offering the first 5 emails to fly@flightwise.ie at 9am on Fiver Friday will get a 1-hour flying lesson for €5 '

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/fiverfriday.html