starting a contracting buisness

joe man utd

Hi guys.
After wasting the last 6 years in college and not able to get a job i have been thinking hard about starting my own bailing buisness. We have a john deere 6610 and welger 220 profi baler.. We also have a older mf 390 and o connor wrapper which is showing signs of wear as we have used it on our farm for 12 years. i need to get a mower wrapper and a second tractor to have a nice outfit.. Have ye any ideas on what i should get and what is the best way of gettn finance......in my area 2 contractors have stopped their buisness due to taking over their large dairy farms... Also is it still possible to compete with the large contractors with fusion balers? Need help lads grass is 6months away..

freedominacup

joe man utd wrote: »

Have ye any ideas on what i should get .

A complete psychological evaluation for starters. If you get an all clear and are still determined I'm sure there'll be plenty of suggestions.

Tipp Man

joe man utd wrote: »

Hi guys.
After wasting the last 6 years in college and not able to get a job i have been thinking hard about starting my own bailing buisness. We have a john deere 6610 and welger 220 profi baler.. We also have a older mf 390 and o connor wrapper which is showing signs of wear as we have used it on our farm for 12 years. i need to get a mower wrapper and a second tractor to have a nice outfit.. Have ye any ideas on what i should get and what is the best way of gettn finance......in my area 2 contractors have stopped their buisness due to taking over their large dairy farms... Also is it still possible to compete with the large contractors with fusion balers? Need help lads grass is 6months away..

As long as the tractor is reliable, big enough for the job and has good tires then i don't think your customers will mind too much what brand/model it is

The majority of bales in our area are still made with baler wrappers, only a couple of fusions around so there is definately space for them.

Grecco

Might be worth talking with the two contractors who have stopped working in your area. They might want to off-load some machinery and also some customers as well

himwdah

as above talk to those who stopped and try to sus out ur costumers that u dont need and be strict on terms and price, dont undercut those that are there for starters, when the weather breaks no one worries about minor price differences.

anything other than baling?

dont run before u can walk, our wrapper was done when we bought it and still manages 5000ish bales last year behind our 390 4wd, its the drivers not the machinery that make the money as much as anything.

Pacoa

Could you sub hire the mowing? It would save you the cost of the mower and you would have more energy for the baling and wrapping. Baling can be very tireing all the stoping and backing and looking behind you al the time so having someone else do the mowing might be a better option.

epfff

my area is flooded with contractors all with good machines mainly bailing and slurry
i use two of them (1 pit and slurry 1 bailing)
interesting eneough two sets of brothers that i was in school with and would have always socialised with them as well
they both refuse to compete on price with anyone and they both claim that their service wont be bet(which i agree)
the both stay in new macinery as they claim with the way weather is comming you must be ready for off at a flash its a feast or a famine.
they also laugh at new guys starting off as they recon that there is a huge amount of vermon out there that cant be kept happy and are bad to pay
after saying all that they seem to be pulling a good living out of it they have good houses cars ect

Manoffeeling

Baling. Business .

himwdah

Pacoa wrote: »

Could you sub hire the mowing? It would save you the cost of the mower and you would have more energy for the baling and wrapping. Baling can be very tireing all the stoping and backing and looking behind you al the time so having someone else do the mowing might be a better option.

yeah sub out mowing would be good and get a cut from it nothing massive but enough, jd 6610 shouldnt be tiresum to bale with, lacking of power for hills maybe but not tiresum id think, worst i had to bale with was renault 106, far to much reaching for shuttle.

Farmer Pudsey

epfff wrote: »

they also laugh at new guys starting off as they recon that there is a huge amount of vermon out there that cant be kept happy and are bad to pay

I am friendly with a contractor as well and when ever a new outfit set up he has a few good customers to send to them at the start:)

convoy

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I am friendly with a contractor as well and when ever a new outfit set up he has a few good customers to send to them at the start:)

Try and sub out your mowing for a season, would you think of a taarup BIO, they are a bril machine and put your 6610 in front, imo its a low start up cost

Muckit

Manoffeeling wrote: »

Baling. Business .

one word is not a sentence, but I get what your implying :rolleyes:

pakalasa

Give a cash discount for payment before you leave the farm. Nothing like cashflow or even worst to put you out of business.

bob charles

joe man utd wrote: »

Hi guys.
After wasting the last 6 years in college

you will be wasting many more by your next move. Not for all the tea in China would I do it

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Before you spend a penny, I would suggest doing a SWAT analysis and have a some sort of business plan, with target income for year 1,2 and 3. Then you will have a target as to how much you need to earn to break even, earn a profit. You may realise that its not going to be profitable at this stage, or if it is going to be profitable, it will may make it easier to get a loan or finance for machinery.

Try and get an idea of how many customers you will have next year. Maybe call door to door to the customers of the 2 contractors that are packing it in.

rs8

not knowing what county youre in have you considerd doing tilage? my advice would get a job and farm part time, you wil have more money and less of headache.

keep going

what do you do besides baling because you cant bale everyday.it might form the bread and butter of the bizz but you will need some jam on top.i often think there is nice money in running your own gear but before long everybody starts taking on people and your margins become very tight and your headaches multiply.sometimes the best way to make money is to say NO to work

13spanner

The small lad can always compete. I've yet to see a Fusion that'll bale two fields at the same time so when the big lads are booked out, there's your chance to pick up the work they simply can't fit in best of luck with it!

pakalasa

Don't forget insurance. I went to see a tractor for sale a while back. The guy who owned it was a contractor. He had a young guy working for him and he hurt his leg on the job. He sued him and yer man was selling out to pay the bill. Expensive lesson.

Tipp Man

I think there is decent money to be made at bales - certainly the guys around here are doing ok but we are not overrun with balers.

It's certainly better than thinking about settting up in pit silage

You could do hedgecutting for the winter - a 1 man job that doesn't use a lot of diesel

1 thing i will say about contracting is that it seems to be a slow business to get established and may take 4-5 years before you are doing the volume of work you want to do. Of course a wet summer like the 1 just gone and it is a tremendous opportunity to get your leg in the door in places

grazeaway

After 6 years of college I'd see slow to turn back on it. Just cos things are slow now doesn't mean they will stay that way. You should keep your options open.

freedominacup

grazeaway wrote: »

After 6 years of college I'd see slow to turn back on it. Just cos things are slow now doesn't mean they will stay that way. You should keep your options open.

Most sensible post on this thread so far.

Timmaay

grazeaway wrote: »

After 6 years of college I'd see slow to turn back on it. Just cos things are slow now doesn't mean they will stay that way. You should keep your options open.

Ugh now they tell me :P, and I spent north of 6years in college :eek:. I'm in a totally different circumstance to the OP though ha, and don't regret any of my time in college, or jumping ship to farming now!

I'd say fair play to you Joeman for at least getting off your ass and trying to make a shot of it, I know too many people who would just give up and go on the dole etc! Like what everyone said, contracting is a tough game, but do your basics right like making sure there is room for another baler in your area, build up as many contacts as you can and have good customer service etc.

Finally don't go loose the run of yourself when it comes to splashing out on machinery. I know of a lad who spend stupid money on a newish tractor/baler, he ended up taking on jobs where he was paying himself nothing, he had to to try justify the cost of the machinery, surprise surprise the tractor and baler ended up for sale afew months later! If the machinery doesn't cost you much you can afford to let it sit in the shed and sleep easy as such when the demand/price for your service isn't there!

joe man utd

grazeaway wrote: »

After 6 years of college I'd see slow to turn back on it. Just cos things are slow now doesn't mean they will stay that way. You should keep your options open.

I spent six years gettin a degree in civil engineering and I should have done a fabrication apprenticeship.. however I need,to do something soon I'm good with machinery have worked every summer with different contractors.. currently I'm driving a track machine but work has dried up I'm not entitled to the dole they say.

joe man utd

rs8 wrote: »

not knowing what county youre in have you considerd doing tilage? my advice would get a job and farm part time, you wil have more money and less of headache.

Sound for the advice lad have a job part time but its a joke.. when November comes I have no income until march.....I'm in limerick not much tillage land around here mostly dairy...... Plus the father is in dairy and he is only 50 so he has a share of farming to do yet

joe man utd

Thanks for all the advice lads.... I spoke with the 2 contractors that pulled out of contracting- I worked with them both at different stages...
1 lad offered me the use of his new Holland tractor
For the summer which I'm seriously thinking about...and the other said he will drive around with me in the spring to his better clients (ones that pay promptly).. that's if I decide to go ahead! Going to talk to bank manager to see about possibility of small loan to get me off my feet.... Any more advice keep it coming............

epfff

joe man utd wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice lads.... I spoke with the 2 contractors that pulled out of contracting- I worked with them both at different stages...
1 lad offered me the use of his new Holland tractor
For the summer which I'm seriously thinking about...and the other said he will drive around with me in the spring to his better clients (ones that pay promptly).. that's if I decide to go ahead! Going to talk to bank manager to see about possibility of small loan to get me off my feet.... Any more advice keep it coming............

Go for it
he who dares wins
one of the friends rented a new class baler last year for 10 weeks from class dealer forget the price but i remember remarking you couldnt afford to buy one for the price look into it
remember there will be lots out there to give advice that havent got a clue how to do anything
also there will be lots out there to knock you because they are jelous and will love to see you fail
my advice to deal with them is agree with all and it really piss them off when you have a good laugh at your self when things go wrong which they will somedays cas laughing is easier than crying

Conor556

joe man utd wrote: »

Sound for the advice lad have a job part time but its a joke.. when November comes I have no income until march.....I'm in limerick not much tillage land around here mostly dairy...... Plus the father is in dairy and he is only 50 so he has a share of farming to do yet

Where abouts in limerick are you

funny man

epfff wrote: »

Go for it
he who dares wins
one of the friends rented a new class baler last year for 10 weeks from class dealer forget the price but i remember remarking you couldnt afford to buy one for the price look into it
remember there will be lots out there to give advice that havent got a clue how to do anything
also there will be lots out there to knock you because they are jelous and will love to see you fail
my advice to deal with them is agree with all and it really piss them off when you have a good laugh at your self when things go wrong which they will somedays cas laughing is easier than crying

What a riddle!

joe man utd

South limerick near hospital...

Grass Hopper

If your only idle from Novemer til March then look at contracting jobs for that time of year.
The whole world is chasing the bit of grass during the summer months and slashing prices to keep busy.

Look into niche markets like drain jetting or contract feeding cattle,nobody is doing it so you have the chance to charge a sensible price and pick your customers.

Then when the silly season starts and all the busy fools hit the road again for half the rate they need to be working for you can park up your tractor and go drive for them,draw a wage and avoid all the headaches.

Trust me when I say you will lose your shirt if you go out contracting at grass and lets face it theres handier ways to go broke :rolleyes:

coolshannagh28

bob charles wrote: »

you will be wasting many more by your next move. Not for all the tea in China would I do it

I agree here , contracting is a nightmare and it is impossible to get money in . If you are completely determined kit your tractor out with flotation tyres and put a hedgecutter on her there is a niche in the market because of the environmental rules for hedgecutting on wetter land outside the nesting season

joe man utd

Just to fill ye in.. me and the father have just bought a john Deere 1355 mower for 6500.. and I have agreed to rent a tm 135 tractor from local contractor who has finished up...so we now have a jd 6610 nh tm125 welger 220 baler. O'Connor wrapper and jd mower... Hoping to make 3000 bales in first year...3 big farmers have said that they will get me and they do between 6 - 1000 bales each... Here's hoping for a productive year....

himwdah

seems a sensible start and sensible expectations, what about damage to tm or repairs insurance etc hire based agreement be best?

not trying to shoot u down we used to borrow tractors and if anything broke we just fixed it to save hassle, but deffinetly was our best option at the time to we got where we are or could justify it

delaval

You should be admired for your determination and for te fact that you spoke to the other retired contractors. I sincerely wish you the very best of luck. As a user of contractors I love to see another one starting. Please get your money on the headland and if you do not get it be sure to invoice monthly like all other business'.I thin where most contractors fall down is not collecting their money, remember you are not a bank!
Having said all this I would urge you to re consider I have never met a retired wealthy contractor. I would pehaps suggest getting into dairy farming and returning to your farm in afew years with a wealth of experience, whatever you decide I wish you well

mf240

Dont get into a price war. Charge everyone the same and provide a good service 50cents a bale will mean nothing to a farmer if you pack the bales well and chop them properly.

If you wont be able to get to a lad till evening tell him that, most wont mind.

But if hes sitting on a tractor an bale handler for half the day expecting you every minute hell be serious pissed off.

And as delaval says keep your money collected promptly.

keep going

best of luck and my advice is to stop expanding once you have a nice run of work.shiney gear has shiney prices

powerfarmer

All the best with it, keep us informed how its going for you.

Timmaay

keep going wrote: »

best of luck and my advice is to stop expanding once you have a nice run of work.shiney gear has shiney prices

Yep, all too often you see a newish business go mental on expansion just after they have found their feet! What happens is you have a decent run of luck, get ahead on sales targets etc etc and suddenly end up with a nice wad of cash at the end of the year, that the taxman wants to get his hands on. So lets throw the existing business plan out the window, purchase some shiny new gear to keep the tax bill down. This allows you spit out double the number of bales or whatever it is you do.

The next year comes, you have a new baler etc to pay for so are under more stress, some other chap then moves in on your turf, undercuts you and takes some business, combined with a poor harvest etc, and suddenly the extra investment from the previous year has you on your knees!

This all sounds sooo obvious ha, but greed is the most fatal trait of man, you'd be amazed at the amount of people who fall into the above trap! (finally best of luck to ya with what you have now!)

porter shark

been at that craic since my legs were long enough to reach the pedals.
i admire the fact that you haven't gone mad and claimed you will make 15,000 bales the first year but you will need to make nearer to that than 3.
i will make 3,000 in 3 fine days in july and will make another three for our own use and i promise you there isn't a fortune left over.

you are in a great position in that you have some gear but remember that the life of that gear will be shortened by the contract work.

it looks like your mind is made up, go see your accountant, you will probably end up having to regester for vat down the line and you prob better off to do it now.
also consider topping, spreading manure etc. its a way of getting into farmers yards.

considered slurry? much less investment, labour and fuel cost

freedominacup

porter shark wrote: »

considered slurry? much less investment, labour and fuel cost

Spraying? Lowish investment, GPS means grassland spraying v.simple, low fuel requirement, low wear and tear, a lot to be said for it.

Conor556

Do you still have the 390.

joe man utd

Conor556 wrote: »

Do you still have the 390.

Ya its still around it won't be going out doh its a sweatbox of a yolk to work with and the brakes are half fooked? Why u ask conor?

Conor556

joe man utd wrote: »

Ya its still around it won't be going out doh its a sweatbox of a yolk to work with and the brakes are half fooked? Why u ask conor?

just wondered if you sold it to buy the mower or for the rent of the tm or would you have it on the wrapper or something, best of luck with it anyway and "keep er lit"

oasis12

if ur lookin a driver give us a buzz bai

porter shark

freedominacup wrote: »

Spraying? Lowish investment, GPS means grassland spraying v.simple, low fuel requirement, low wear and tear, a lot to be said for it.

couldn't agree more. the way the weather is the tillage men are all spraying when weather is suitable. always people looking to get spraying done and we never get to them.

foxer3640

Been at the contracting for 25 years. Dont get carried away with expensive gear it will lead to a lot of pressure. There's much easier ways to earn a living. Best of luck if you go ahead with it but be careful no quicker way to end up without a shirt on your back.