Support your Local Pro

TrapperChamonix

Just a timely reminder when looking at Xmas presents in the next month. Between me, my son and my father in law there are Xmas and birthday presents coming up. I found the best prices on offer in McGuirks and Halpenny, put them in front of my friendly club pro and asked for a best price.

He beat them by 20%. Granted with 2 FY Woods, 2 bags and a putter, it was a sizable purchase but well worth checking out the local Pro. With the added benefit that I also trust his advice.

Its worth also remembering that in these recessionary times, the club Pros as well as the clubs themselves have been facing declining income.

neckedit

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Just a timely reminder when looking at Xmas presents in the next month. Between me, my son and my father in law there are Xmas and birthday presents coming up. I found the best prices on offer in McGuirks and Halpenny, put them in front of my friendly club pro and asked for a best price.

He beat them by 20%. Granted with 2 FY Woods, 2 bags and a putter, it was a sizable purchase but well worth checking out the local Pro. With the added benefit that I also trust his advice.

Its worth also remembering that in these recessionary times, the club Pros as well as the clubs themselves have been facing declining income.

Is this actually supporting your pro?
I am by no means being smart or trolling with that question, it is a genuine ask.
You have gone to 2 of the cheaper retailers and got good prices and then gone to your Pro asking him to better them again? I'm not sure what product you have bought but If he has gone 20% cheaper than these 2, I would say his profit off the sale is non existent.

PARlance

neckedit wrote: »

Is this actually supporting your pro?
I am by no means being smart or trolling with that question, it is a genuine ask.
You have gone to 2 of the cheaper retailers and got good prices and then gone to your Pro asking him to better them again? I'm not sure what product you have bought but If he has gone 20% cheaper than these 2, I would say his profit off the sale is non existent.

I think it is neckedit, the Pro wouldn't(shouldn't) be selling for a loss.
There may even be a benefit to selling at a loss, if that was the case, a short term benefit if cash flow/working capital is badly needed (not a good long term sign but a reality in many small biz's)

Of course it would be better for the pro not to be selling at a discount, but asking for a bargain isn't forcing them to do anything.

TrapperChamonix

neckedit wrote: »

Is this actually supporting your pro?
I am by no means being smart or trolling with that question, it is a genuine ask.
You have gone to 2 of the cheaper retailers and got good prices and then gone to your Pro asking him to better them again? I'm not sure what product you have bought but If he has gone 20% cheaper than these 2, I would say his profit off the sale is non existent.

This was a transaction all out in the open, no pressure on him if he didn't want to or couldn't match the price then he would just say so and I'd go elsewhere .. no hard feelings.
I had previously bought a set of irons from him. In a similar way I had seen a very good deal in Halfpenny. I brought the price to him and knowing that it was already a very good deal, I only asked him to match the price. Again he was delighted.

Ask any retailer or small business, would you like additional business that in the normal scheme of things would have gone to your competitors? Would you like someone to purchase your stock (which has been sitting for some time) at a profit.The answer is yes.

BTW had I been in Halfpennys and had bought all 5 at the same time I would have looked for more discount from them as well. I'm sure my pro would be even happier if I bought them all off him at list price, but he would definitely have been less happy had I not given him the opportunity to compete for my business.

neckedit

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I think it is neckedit, the Pro wouldn't(shouldn't) be selling for a loss.
There may even be a benefit to selling at a loss, if that was the case, a short term benefit if cash flow/working capital is badly needed (not a good long term sign but a reality in many small biz's)

Of course it would be better for the pro not to be selling at a discount, but asking for a bargain isn't forcing them to do anything.

I hear what your saying, but the only benefit to selling at a loss i.e. loss leaders, is to increase footfall and the hope that sales staff may be able to switch sell a % of that footfall into more profitable product, but in the Club Pro case this is not his end game.
The OP has gone to 2 very cheap retailers first, and taken the price information to his Local Pro and asked can he do better, If I am not mistaken, the Pro has obliged out of the hope that this may create a bit of good will in the future and OP may come back for future purchases. this is not, in my opinion, supporting the Pro this is using 2 High Street Retailers prices as leverage to gain a greater discount. Supporting the Pro is giving him first refusal on the purchase, I can assure you he will be very aware of the prices in the market place for most product, or doing a deal with him on his prices not high street prices.

WHIP IT!

neckedit wrote: »

I hear what your saying, but the only benefit to selling at a loss i.e. loss leaders, is to increase footfall and the hope that sales staff may be able to switch sell a % of that footfall into more profitable product, but in the Club Pro case this is not his end game.
The OP has gone to 2 very cheap retailers first, and taken the price information to his Local Pro and asked can he do better, If I am not mistaken, the Pro has obliged out of the hope that this may create a bit of good will in the future and OP may come back for future purchases. this is not, in my opinion, supporting the Pro this is using 2 High Street Retailers prices as leverage to gain a greater discount. Supporting the Pro is giving him first refusal on the purchase, I can assure you he will be very aware of the prices in the market place for most product, or doing a deal with him on his prices not high street prices.

Ah how very 'Oirish' - he should've just done the decent thing and spent more money?? :rolleyes:

The transaction was obviously aggreeable to both parties, I'm sure the OP didn't hold a gun to the Pro's head and, at the end of the day, it sounds like he's spent several hundred quid in his shop. Not to mention having previously bought irons from him. I would certainly call that 'supporting' your pro.

TrapperChamonix

neckedit wrote: »

I hear what your saying, but the only benefit to selling at a loss i.e. loss leaders, is to increase footfall and the hope that sales staff may be able to switch sell a % of that footfall into more profitable product, but in the Club Pro case this is not his end game.
The OP has gone to 2 very cheap retailers first, and taken the price information to his Local Pro and asked can he do better, If I am not mistaken, the Pro has obliged out of the hope that this may create a bit of good will in the future and OP may come back for future purchases. this is not, in my opinion, supporting the Pro this is using 2 High Street Retailers prices as leverage to gain a greater discount. Supporting the Pro is giving him first refusal on the purchase, I can assure you he will be very aware of the prices in the market place for most product, or doing a deal with him on his prices not high street prices.

Pretty sure you are mistaken, but as I have not got visibility to his purchase price, I can't be definite. But given you neither know his purchase price or sale price, you don't know either. You are entitled to your opinion but it is based on an assumption that he sold goods to me at a loss. This assumption has no factual basis.

neckedit

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Ah how very 'Oirish' - he should've just done the decent thing and spent more money?? :rolleyes:

The transaction was obviously aggreeable to both parties, I'm sure the OP didn't hold a gun to the Pro's head and, at the end of the day, it sounds like he's spent several hundred quid in his shop. Not to mention having previously bought irons from him. I would certainly call that 'supporting' your pro.

I never once said any one should spend more money!
And I too am sure the OP never forced the Pros hand at all in the transaction. As a golf retailer in both Pro shop and high street,I know when some one comes in with prices from a competitor, for the Pro any way, you are almost compelled to look after the member, cause the last thing any Pro wants is bad press around the club, They are under enough pressure already. In High street we can from time to time let a sale go, if its not the deal for every one, this does not happen a lot I most say, The Pro, however, does not have this luxury. I am not suggesting that the OP did anything wrong at all in his transaction or under handed.

neckedit

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Pretty sure you are mistaken, but as I have not got visibility to his purchase price, I can't be definite. But given you neither know his purchase price or sale price, you don't know either. You are entitled to your opinion but it is based on an assumption that he sold goods to me at a loss. This assumption has no factual basis.

Yes it is an assumption, but having a working Knowledge of the biz and you got a good price already in the 2 other stores and he went a further 20% lower than their prices, I would be confident he made very little, if any thing on the sale,
But as I said i don't think for a second there is anything wrong with what you have done I just don't feel this is Supporting your local pro.

GreeBo

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Ah how very 'Oirish' - he should've just done the decent thing and spent more money?? :rolleyes:

The transaction was obviously aggreeable to both parties, I'm sure the OP didn't hold a gun to the Pro's head and, at the end of the day, it sounds like he's spent several hundred quid in his shop. Not to mention having previously bought irons from him. I would certainly call that 'supporting' your pro.

Halfpenny and McGuirks have far more purchasing power than Club Pros, even with the likes of Tartan Golf.
I think neckedit has a fair point, if the pro refused to match it then he would get a name for being expensive and cause himself more problems.
Spending several hundred quid in the pro-shop does nothing for the pro unless he is making enough money off it to survive.

link_2007

I don't understand why the pro shop cut another 20% off of Halpenny's price. Surely matching the price of the large retailer, or at worst throwing in a sleeve of balls, would have been enough to secure the sale?

TrapperChamonix

neckedit wrote: »

Yes it is an assumption, but having a working Knowledge of the biz and you got a good price already in the 2 other stores and he went a further 20% lower than their prices, I would be confident he made very little, if any thing on the sale,
But as I said i don't think for a second there is anything wrong with what you have done I just don't feel this is Supporting your local pro.

So for the G20's 3 & 5 I bought it seems strange that he included the same price he gave to me on a mail circular the following to all the members of the club as his autumn sale. Maybe I should check your bona fides after all especially as you refer to McGuirks as a very cheap retailer

But if I put together your previous comments
I just don't feel this is Supporting your local pro
I never once said any one should spend more money!
The only logical extension is that your advice would be, if you are thinking of buying something in the multiples, go ahead! It'd be better for the pro not to give him the chance to bid for your business. He'll only loose money and be too embarrassed say No
ABSURD

From here on I will encourage everyone to shop in the multiples. But you'll forgive me if I (selflessly) continue to offer business to my Pro.

Greenbo, Is there a way I change the title of this thread to "support your local pro...shop in McGuirks"

TrapperChamonix

link_2007 wrote: »

I don't understand why the pro shop cut another 20% off of Halpenny's price. Surely matching the price of the large retailer, or at worst throwing in a sleeve of balls, would have been enough to secure the sale?

Ok so for spending over €500 you'd be delighted with a sleeve of golf balls?

I'll give you 2 reasons. 1) because it encourages be to come back to him and 2) because I ended up buying a 2nd bag (this one for myself).

But given everyone else around here obviously shops exclusively in their local Proshop and only at list price and never when there is a sale one, then...................


You know what I give up. Shop where you like.

GreeBo

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

From here on I will encourage everyone to shop in the multiples. But you'll forgive me if I (selflessly) continue to offer business to my Pro.

20% off Halfpenny prices is hardly you being selfless!

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Greenbo, Is there a way I change the title of this thread to "support your local pro...shop in McGuirks"

Whats a "Greenbo"?

GreeBo

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Ok so for spending over €500 you'd be delighted with a sleeve of golf balls?

I'll give you 2 reasons. 1) because it encourages be to come back to him and 2) because I ended up buying a 2nd bag (this one for myself).

But given everyone else around here obviously shops exclusively in their local Proshop and only at list price and never when there is a sale one, then...................


You know what I give up. Shop where you like.

So you are only happy to selflessly :rolleyes: support your local pro when he gives you a better deal than you can get elsewhere and then come onto boards.ie and make out like you did him a favour?

On yer bike!

link_2007

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Ok so for spending over €500 you'd be delighted with a sleeve of golf balls?

I'll give you 2 reasons. 1) because it encourages be to come back to him and 2) because I ended up buying a 2nd bag (this one for myself).

But given everyone else around here obviously shops exclusively in their local Proshop and only at list price and never when there is a sale one, then...................


You know what I give up. Shop where you like.

Woah woah woah. Relax.

I am not questioning you at all. My point is that there was no need for the pro shop to offer such a large discount.

Ok, a sleeve of balls isn't much of a saving on an outlay of >€500. But if the pro had said "I'll match their price and give you an extra 5-10% off". I would have thought that would be enough to keep you happy (it would for me) and secure the sale. While generous, 20% just seems excessive.

It was an observation, not a personal attack.

alxmorgan

If your pro can beat the mutiples by 20% then please point the way and we'll all beat a path to his door !!

neckedit

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

So for the G20's 3 & 5 I bought it seems strange that he included the same price he gave to me on a mail circular the following to all the members of the club as his autumn sale. Maybe I should check your bona fides after all especially as you refer to McGuirks as a very cheap retailer

check what you like, Why did you go to Mcgurks then?

But if I put together your previous comments
I just don't feel this is Supporting your local pro
I never once said any one should spend more money!
The only logical extension is that your advice would be, if you are thinking of buying something in the multiples, go ahead! It'd be better for the pro not to give him the chance to bid for your business. He'll only loose money and be too embarrassed say No
ABSURD

Embarrased? I never said that. They don't want to upset members and create bad feeling in the club.

From here on I will encourage everyone to shop in the multiples. But you'll forgive me if I (selflessly) continue to offer business to my Pro.

mmm... Selflessly, really?, shopped around got good prices and then went to your pro to see could he do better, as I said nothing wrong with what you did, I deal with this on a daily basis, but don't try to tell us its a selfless act.

Greenbo, Is there a way I change the title of this thread to "support your local pro...shop in McGuirks"

Any way this is getting Childish now. But thanks for starting a good thread.

Nedser101

I don't know the % mark up these retailers have but it must be fairly substantial
For example ,the day mcguirks opened in airside halfpenny slashed everything in the store , most by 25% .
I'm just hopeing American golf open up there too.

Rikand

Original Poster wrote:

Support your Local Pro

Just a timely reminder when looking at Xmas presents in the next month.

I couldnt agree more!

onlyfinewine

GreeBo wrote: »

Halfpenny and McGuirks have far more purchasing power than Club Pros, even with the likes of Tartan Golf.
I think neckedit has a fair point, if the pro refused to match it then he would get a name for being expensive and cause himself more problems.
Spending several hundred quid in the pro-shop does nothing for the pro unless he is making enough money off it to survive.

Two questions 1) What happened to the market forces that were being bandied about like snuff at a wake recently?


and 2) The pro offered an additional 20 per cent discount, apparently without being coerced, so why should you worry about whether or not he makes a profit?

TrapperChamonix

GreeBo wrote: »

20% off Halfpenny prices is hardly you being selfless!


Whats a "Greenbo"?

Irony Dear Boy, Irony.

Of course it was selfish. All commercial transactions are. Neither my golf Pro nor myself are running charities.

GreeBo

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Irony Dear Boy, Irony.

Of course it was selfish. All commercial transactions are. Neither my golf Pro nor myself are running charities.

So the entire point of this thread is...?

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

So the entire point of this thread is...?

I think the point of this thread is.... fairly evident from its title.
Support your Local Pro
You may not think this is supporting the Pro but you may not always be right either.
Here's my take on the thread, it may help clarify the OP's and my thinking on the matter!

OP gets a great deal with Pro....starts a thread to tell people to support their local Pro.

I don't believe there was a gun involved (that is a metaphor... for anyone about to jump on the next passing tangent)
The Pro offered the additional discount... the OP has already stated that he would have purchased if price was matched....the Pro didn't need to offer the additional discount.

Everyone is assuming the Pro sold at a loss, this may not be the case.
Even, If it was at a loss, there are more benefits to selling at a loss than just getting future footfall into the shop, there are several other benefits that the Pro could derive from having that €500 in his hand. Some, but not all may be short term, but they are benefits none the less.
Here are a few
*Pro needs cash immediately for Wages/Taxman/Supplier/Bank (short term)
*Pro sells at a loss, Pro and fellow Pros around the country may benefit as OP has raised awareness in lead up to Christmas
*Pro has seen these clubs gathering dust, assuming he paid for them months ago, it would be a perfectly good call for him to "get rid" of this stock in order to purchase a newer set that he can sell at a higher margin without having to discount, thus recouping some of his loss in the medium/long term by turning over his stock.
To avoid confusion, Selling at a loss is not a advisable long term strategy for the Pro, but there are many other benefits that can be derived.

The only thing wrong with this case is that the Pro is not going about his business in the best way he should!
He's giving unforced discounts unnecessarily.
I certainly wouldn't tell him not to bother with the discount if he offered it to me without me forcing him to.
Would I ask for a few quid off? Yes
Would I expect it? No
Would I buy them if he offered same price or even a marginal bit extra? Yes
Would I understand if he couldn't match? Yes
Would I bad mouth pro if he couldn't match? No

Maybe my heart doesn't bleed enough!

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I think the point of this thread is.... fairly evident from its title.
Support your Local Pro

Well the OP has just admitted that he was being selfish, so I really dont see how its supporting anyone? (other than himself)

Jazzzman

What a ridiculous thread.

Support your local pro if you can.

/thread

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

Well the OP has just admitted that he was being selfish, so I really dont see how its supporting anyone? (other than himself)

I think OP has done himself a disservice by branding it selfish... To me it's just common sense.

I can call myself selfish too, if that means taking a lower price that is willingly offered for something without pressurising any pro/person.

Unless the Pro is clueless in running a business, it is supporting him.
We should give the Pro the benefit of doubt that he is in fact able to make good business decisions.
I've listed ways in which it may support him.

And who else does this support? My family

Alrite Chief

This thread is typical of the golf section. Lad would argue over anything here. Even better pick something about a post and bring them to the slaughter just to get one up. Look like the chap and impress the internet lads.

Totally agree with the OP. He is supporting his pro. Its very easy to go into McGuirkes, Halfpenny or AG and avail of one of their 'very special offers'. You would swear these retailers are not making a cent and pricing things at rock bottom. All he did was ask his pro. His pro obliged so he is just sharing his experience. If there is something i have in mind i want ill compare the retailers online. Then when im at the club mention it to the pro. He'll either say you'd be better off grab that in the retailer or he's say leave that with me i should be able to do better. Its not like he is gonna go order stuff in lose money.

Id encourage anyone to do the same. The customer service our pro provides is excellent. I never even try haggle with him. For the simple reason one of the first things i bought i had money in my account from a prize. The trousers i got were 60 on the shelf. The exact amount i had in my account. Next time i went to get something else he only put them through for 40. Without even asking he applied his best price. You'd never get that in a retailer.

neckedit

Alrite Chief wrote: »

This thread is typical of the golf section. Lad would argue over anything here. Even better pick something about a post and bring them to the slaughter just to get one up. Look like the chap and impress the internet lads.

Totally agree with the OP. He is supporting his pro. Its very easy to go into McGuirkes, Halfpenny or AG and avail of one of their 'very special offers'. You would swear these retailers are not making a cent and pricing things at rock bottom. All he did was ask his pro. His pro obliged so he is just sharing his experience. If there is something i have in mind i want ill compare the retailers online. Then when im at the club mention it to the pro. He'll either say you'd be better off grab that in the retailer or he's say leave that with me i should be able to do better. Its not like he is gonna go order stuff in lose money.

Id encourage anyone to do the same. The customer service our pro provides is excellent. I never even try haggle with him. For the simple reason one of the first things i bought i had money in my account from a prize. The trousers i got were 60 on the shelf. The exact amount i had in my account. Next time i went to get something else he only put them through for 40. Without even asking he applied his best price. You'd never get that in a retailer.

I hope this is not intended towards me?, I stated in my first thread it was A genuine ask , a few times in posts that I didn't feel the OP did anything wrong I simply asked was this seen as supporting your Pro, and I asked the questions purely form a personal point of interest as I have been the PGA pro in the Shop and I now am A high street retailer, I have little or no interest in one up man ship or looking the chap on an internet discussion site.
If not towards me......excuse my paranoia.......

Alrite Chief

Haha sorry. I don't mean it to be directed at anyone in particular. I suppose you just got the ball rolling but the response has resulted in the OP getting a hard time for just being helpful. Its a common thing here. I did see you stated you were genuinely asking a question so apologies if you felt i was having a go at you.

PARlance

Don't be so paranoid Neckedit, a group of us were just PM'ing each other there saying that you shouldn't be so paranoid... amongst other stuff
Only messing!

TrapperChamonix

My final post on the matter.
Yesterday evening I picked up 2x Golfbags, 1 x putter, 1 x Ping G20 5W, 1 x crested putter cover and one pair of FJ Socks. I have to pick up the G20 3W on the weekend. As I mentioned I'm buying for several members of extended family Xmas presents. I spent €600. After paying, my club Pro thanked me with great enthusiasm and then threw in another pair of socks into the bag as he was giving them a wipe.

So I asked his opinion. Specifically I asked him if after the discount he viewed this as good business?Did he feel that he had to do deals he didn't want to as he was obligated as the club Pro? His response was 3 fold.

1. He viewed it as a good deal. If he felt he couldn't do a deal he would be honest and say so. He would not force himself into something that he didn't want to. He has and would continue to say to members that he can't match certain deals and advise them to buy in one of the multiples. It is an amicable discussion.
2. Cashflow is an important. Turning over stock is important. The G20's will be superseded next year and its in his interest to keep his stock turning over.
3. The percentage of members golf purchases through the pro shop is low. This is the same in all clubs. If the percentage was high, club pros would be much better off. He's delighted to see anyone come in an look for a deal as it allows him to compete for business. The difficulty for him is when someone buys in a Multiple. He misses the opportunity. He doesn't say this in a negative way nor is he whining about it but it is business he would love to have.

Some may say he only said that because I had bought stuff off him or that he felt obligated. I don't really care.
The intent of the Thread and still is, was to encourage those of you thinking of Golf Christmas Presents to give your Club Pro a chance. I really have no idea how or why it went in a different direction.

Seves Three Iron

Hi Trapper Chamonix. You sound like a great guy, I'm a great guy, let's be friends. There we did it. We're buds for life.

Okay, now down to the nitty gritty. I would like to be included on your Christmas list. My spec is stiff shafts on the woods, multi compound grips and Pro V1s. V1 'x' by the way.

Oh, and have a great Christmas. Card in the post from my end.


(Disclaimer: Not taking the piss out of Trapper by the way. Just don't think this thread requires any more sensible answers. How anyone could possibly argue for three pages about supporting your local pro is beyond me.)

alxmorgan

To be fair to those who have questioned the OP on here I was expecting something different when I read the title of the thread too.
The word support didn't suggest to me getting 20% better than the multiples.
It suggested buying off the pro despite the same or even slightly higher prices cause it was seen as the right thing to do.

That is not an attack on the OP at all and fair play to him for going to his pro.
But I can understand how people view this slightly differently given the wording.
It would sit nicely under the deals thread !!

But I'm fairly sure 99% (cause there's always some) would echo the underlying sentiment

onlyfinewine

GreeBo wrote: »

So you are only happy to selflessly :rolleyes: support your local pro when he gives you a better deal than you can get elsewhere and then come onto boards.ie and make out like you did him a favour?

On yer bike!

What a ridiculous assumption. If this is the standard we are sinking to it's time to change something!

mafc

onlyfinewine wrote: »

What a ridiculous assumption. If this is the standard we are sinking to it's time to change something!

Well said !

WHIP IT!

onlyfinewine wrote: »

What a ridiculous assumption. If this is the standard we are sinking to it's time to change something!

Old Celtic-Tiger-Charge-Em-What-You-Like habits die hard with some retailers... there's a lot of bitterness and refusal to face reality out there.

OP has conducted a good deal which suits everybody involved and paid €600 in cash to a local business. He deserves a pat on the back and hopefully whichever of them new clubs he bought for himself is good to him when he takes it on the course!

goodgolfer64

without letting it rest ...I myself work in the golf retail sector...my PGA boss at times will let certain stuff go at cost price or a tiny loss..that he has made some profit from that model already...knowing its going to be superseeded just wants rid of it.....and also cashflow a major problem at times in pro shops