Eircom to Vodafone

NJOR

Tired of all the legality pages and small writing on service provider contracts.

I recently moved from Eircom to Vodafone (i didnt see why I should pay for an eircom landline rental when vodafone said this would be included in their broardband deal)

I asked Vodafone staff if I needed to contact eircom regarding the switch-over and they said no they handle everything.

Well all went well, vodafone package commenced and apart from occasional bb downtime all is well...................... until this morning

A bill from eircom for 300 Euro "Eircom residential line / broadband line early ceases charges"

Somehow I feel as if I have been screwed yet again by one of our "milk the customer service providers". I wonder if this had been a switch from Electric Ireland to Bord Gais and i was charged same would that be legal?

So lurking somewhere in the contract with eircom is the "early cease charge". I didnt read it, nor do i read all the other household service provider contracts I have... Do you?

But I smell a rat... I cant help thinking "one month notice period" should have been highlighted... by Eircom when the contracts were signed and Vodafone as a condition of moving over.

I just want to get on with trying to survive in this cash-strapped world. I can do without forking out 300 Euro for a switch over.. Does anyoe care about their customer anymore or is it just about money.

Deflated.

Procrastastudy

A word of advice; start reading the contracts you sign.

Except software EULAs - no one reads those - that's actually received legal recognition.

Other than that it's just basic common sense that if you say you are going to do something you should probably expect consequences if you don't.

NJOR

...and I know there is no point taking this up with Eircom or Vodafone... they deny everything and for them the customer is always wrong.

Just curious how my late 84 years mother would have been expected to read through all this mind numbing contract stuff

Procrastastudy

NJOR wrote: »

...and I know there is no point taking this up with Eircom or Vodafone... they deny everything and for them the customer is always wrong.

Just curious how my late 84 years mother would have been expected to read through all this mind numbing contract stuff

Deny what? You terminated a contract early and were charged. I'm not sure what your mother has to do with this? Most contracts are available in big print for older people.

OneIdea

How long were you with Eircom... ? I doubt you were charged €300 because of a 30day notice. Normally once a 12month term has finished, you are free to switch, but you would still receive a final bill from 30days of cessation and or call charges would be applied to your new providers bill.

If this is something new though... thanks for the heads-up.

NJOR

Points taken above. Yes I should read contracts. Taking the issue away from Eircom.. what about Vodafone...

They sell a service... shouldn't they at least be highlighting to their switch-over customers that Eircom will charge termination fees? Or that they should contact Eircom to find out if there is a switch over fee applies?

skinny90

NJOR wrote: »

Points taken above. Yes I should read contracts. Taking the issue away from Eircom.. what about Vodafone...

They sell a service... shouldn't they at least be highlighting to their switch-over customers that Eircom will charge termination fees? Or that they should contact Eircom to find out if there is a switch over fee applies?

That's none of vodafones business what eircom do or don't do.

OneIdea

NJOR wrote: »

Points taken above. Yes I should read contracts. Taking the issue away from Eircom.. what about Vodafone...

They sell a service... shouldn't they at least be highlighting to their switch-over customers that Eircom will charge termination fees? Or that they should contact Eircom to find out if there is a switch over fee applies?

It is ridiculous that a third party provider can have your contact terminated, thus no letters or phone calls where made on your behalf to protect you from a termination bill. Having said that, you moving away from Eircom is no loss to them as your land-line is still maintained by Eircom and Vodafone pay Eircom for your calls at a fraction of the cost. My gripe would be with Eircom for not protecting you as a customer of theirs and for a lousy €300 over your life span, no doubt you will never go back to them.

Can't really blame Vodafone, they are not to know where you are in your current contract.

On a side note, unless you can afford too... pay off the €300 at scheduled intervals.

TheDriver

sounds to me that you changed to another supplier before you had finished your minimum contract. How long were you with Eircom, its a defined time you must stay with them unless there are exceptional circumstances.
Moving to Vodafone, its none of VF business if you are jumping ship from a contract. The moving team will do all the steps for you but its up to you to ensure its ok to move away from Eircom as it is. Same as you cancelling the service after 2 months, same as cancelling sky after 3 months etc etc.
Sounds like its simply your fault OP and that kind of information is not hidden away in any contract but probably quite obvious. You should always know a)contract length b)how to get out of it

P.S. google your topic and lots of answers on it. You basically broke your contract. Same way if you move from VF before 12 months are up, they will charge you too for breaking contract. Basic stuff really

NJOR

Thanks guys and gals all noted.

Procrastastudy

OneIdea wrote: »

It is ridiculous that a third party provider can have your contact terminated, thus no letters or phone calls where made on your behalf to protect you from a termination bill. Having said that, you moving away from Eircom is no loss to them as your land-line is still maintained by Eircom and Vodafone pay Eircom for your calls at a fraction of the cost. My gripe would be with Eircom for not protecting you as a customer of theirs and for a lousy €300 over your life span, no doubt you will never go back to them.

Can't really blame Vodafone, they are not to know where you are in your current contract.

On a side note, unless you can afford too... pay off the €300 at scheduled intervals.

I have to agree on this one in all honesty. I know I tried to swap from 02 to 3 and they came back to me on a similar situation. OP you could contact your local FLAC for some advice - at the very least COMREG should probably be informed.

lala88

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Deny what? You terminated a contract early and were charged. I'm not sure what your mother has to do with this? Most contracts are available in big print for older people.

I always laugh when someone says something like that to try and back up there point

martina36

I have recently moved from Eircom to Vodafone, and everything went well until I got a bill from Eircom billing me 97 Euro for the cease of residential line service. I have been with Eircom since 2009 and am not aware of any such charge. When I have asked the Vodafone people about any issues with my previous provider they told me since I have been with Eircom since 2009 I have no problem to cancel my services and I have agreed to any services changes through phone with Eircom they have no right less is signed contract. All this seems like everyone is trying to tricked me and not caring about custumers.

As I see many people have experienced the same problem, does anyone knows what is the best to do in this situation.

Thanks

NJOR

Hi Martina..
Its seems like Vodafone is not making Eircom crossovers aware of Eircom service conditions to win the sale...I feel they should alert customers to potential charges from previous service provider.

I'd never have crossed over if I had known and like you Vodafone verbally told me there was no need for me to communicate with Eircom.

Now I am receiving threatening letters from Eircom debt collectors to pay up or else..

In addition the Vodafone broadband service is "DREADFUL" Can't believe they get away with providing such a poor service.

Anyway, they dont care about people like you and me. The big picture is revenue as all costs

martina36

Thanks for your reply

I am just really annoyed with myself that I have let this to happen, the Vodafone people came to my door and I let them to talk me into this they also said that there will be no problem in transferring to Vodafone and if I have agreed to anything on the phone it is not legal.

How can they be treating their new customers like that it is so annoying, they have told me that within seven days someone will call me whether I want to complete the change, of course I was very busy at the time only to find out later that they did not call and in small writing on the contract it said that if after seven days you decide to change your mind reconnection to my rpevious provider may be required, I presume that is of another charge since I have been with Vodafone I have not recieved any phone call, I am so annoyed.

Also Eircom is charging for two months when I have already stopped being their customer

Don't get it

Procrastastudy

Guys please please please let this be a lesson to you and anyone else. (I'm not gloating it genuinely p***** me off when people are ripped off.)

If a company is using door to door sales avoid them.

I was in sales for a number of years with some reputable and some not so reputable companies. I can assure you that as soon as a company resorts to D2D sales they don't give a toss about their customers only revenue.

Its one thing to put leaflets through the door or even knock the door and offer information but as soon as a company is signing people up on the door step they are <SNIP>. To be clear I don't have an issue with the people themselves - they're just trying to make a buck in difficult economic times - but companies like Vodaphone, Eircom Phone watch, Airtricy et al are just <SNIP>, ran by <SNIP>.

Rant over complain to Comreg and the NCA not that either can do very much.

Menas

One issue I have noticed is that if you are with a provider for a number of years you are clearly outside of the 12 month initial contract period and free to leave on giving 30 days notice.
But if they have contacted you over the phone offering you, their loyal customer, a reduced cost bundle or some change like this they normally advise you that accepting this new offer puts you back on a 12 month contract.

These calls are recorded and stored by the service provider and form the basis of a contractual agreement.
So if you then forget about this new agreement and then cease the contract they are entitled to bill you for the non-usage part of the remaining term of this new contract.

Regarding the comment that Vodafone BB is much worse than Eircom BB this initially sounds ridiculous because from an infrastructure point of view they are the exact same (eircom is wholesaling the service to vodafone).

But having made that very switch some years ago I did notice a degradation of my BB service, plenty of down time, lower SNR and 20% slower speeds).
Eventually after many attempts to resolve with Vodafone I had to deduce that the reason for the degradation was Eircom not caring as much about vodafone customers as they do about their own. Stupid huh?
I am with UPC now.

YoYoGotToGo

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Guys please please please let this be a lesson to you and anyone else. (I'm not gloating it genuinely p***** me off when people are ripped off.)

If a company is using door to door sales avoid them.

I was in sales for a number of years with some reputable and some not so reputable companies. I can assure you that as soon as a company resorts to D2D sales they don't give a toss about their customers only revenue.

Its one thing to put leaflets through the door or even knock the door and offer information but as soon as a company is signing people up on the door step they are <SNIP>. To be clear I don't have an issue with the people themselves - they're just trying to make a buck in difficult economic times - but companies like Vodaphone, Eircom Phone watch, Airtricy et al are just <SNIP>, ran by <SNIP>.

Rant over complain to Comreg and the NCA not that either can do very much.

<SNIP> ? I see so the largest communications company on the globe outside china telecom are <SNIP> going door to door .
Providing jobs
Creating Saving
Breaking Eircoms sranglehold and monopoly

Airtricty<SNIP> ?

lmao very slanderous comments from someone that Obviously NEVER worked in door to door sales , if you had you would know that none of the companies above do door to door sales the contract IRISH companies to do it

YoYoGotToGo

NJOR wrote: »

Hi Martina..
Its seems like Vodafone is not making Eircom crossovers aware of Eircom service conditions to win the sale...I feel they should alert customers to potential charges from previous service provider.

I'd never have crossed over if I had known and like you Vodafone verbally told me there was no need for me to communicate with Eircom.

Now I am receiving threatening letters from Eircom debt collectors to pay up or else..

In addition the Vodafone broadband service is "DREADFUL" Can't believe they get away with providing such a poor service.

Anyway, they dont care about people like you and me. The big picture is revenue as all costs

Please READ the forms from both EIRCOM and Vodafone they state in different wording but plainly in view in normal writing

" I am aware that if i am in contract with another provider i may be liable to cease charges "

A rep cannot know if you are in contract or not , the best pratcise would be to ask a potential customer how long they are with there current provider as a guideline .Then secondly ask if they have changed there package or been provided a new modem in the past 12 months , outside those there is no real reason to have entered a new contract therfore making the first question the main source of judgement

You break any contract with any company your going to pay out regardless of phone electricity etc .

I know there are reps that will ignore the fact of asking those questions and will also lie about cancelation fees there and it is unfortunate

However a Rep on the door in a shop on the phone will NOT tell you to ring your current provider as they will potentially lose the sale to counter offers .Its hard enough getting someone that dosnt slam a door in your face and treat sales people like **** to lose any chance of a sale , but asking those questions and having the decency to say "you might be in contract " should always be the policy taken

YoYoGotToGo

martina36 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply

I am just really annoyed with myself that I have let this to happen, the Vodafone people came to my door and I let them to talk me into this they also said that there will be no problem in transferring to Vodafone and if I have agreed to anything on the phone it is not legal.

How can they be treating their new customers like that it is so annoying, they have told me that within seven days someone will call me whether I want to complete the change, of course I was very busy at the time only to find out later that they did not call and in small writing on the contract it said that if after seven days you decide to change your mind reconnection to my rpevious provider may be required, I presume that is of another charge since I have been with Vodafone I have not recieved any phone call, I am so annoyed.

Also Eircom is charging for two months when I have already stopped being their customer

Don't get it

" if I have agreed to anything on the phone it is not legal. "

This is different to my previous post , and is wrong on behalf of the reps. knowing misleading the customer . Please report this to Vodafone .
There are 1000`s of people in sales and its those reps that destroy it for everyone

YoYoGotToGo

Trigger Happy wrote: »

One issue I have noticed is that if you are with a provider for a number of years you are clearly outside of the 12 month initial contract period and free to leave on giving 30 days notice.
But if they have contacted you over the phone offering you, their loyal customer, a reduced cost bundle or some change like this they normally advise you that accepting this new offer puts you back on a 12 month contract.

These calls are recorded and stored by the service provider and form the basis of a contractual agreement.
So if you then forget about this new agreement and then cease the contract they are entitled to bill you for the non-usage part of the remaining term of this new contract.

Regarding the comment that Vodafone BB is much worse than Eircom BB this initially sounds ridiculous because from an infrastructure point of view they are the exact same (eircom is wholesaling the service to vodafone).

But having made that very switch some years ago I did notice a degradation of my BB service, plenty of down time, lower SNR and 20% slower speeds).
Eventually after many attempts to resolve with Vodafone I had to deduce that the reason for the degradation was Eircom not caring as much about vodafone customers as they do about their own. Stupid huh?
I am with UPC now.

Eircom is two seperate companies wholsale and retail , retail is noting but a customer of wholesale like the rest of the providers , Wholesale could care less who the provider is as the line rental fees are what generates revenue

Procrastastudy

YoYoGotToGo wrote: »

<SNIP> ? I see so the largest communications company on the globe outside china telecom are <SNIP> going door to door .
Providing jobs
Creating Saving
Breaking Eircoms sranglehold and monopoly

Airtricty<SNIP> ?

lmao very slanderous comments from someone that Obviously NEVER worked in door to door sales , if you had you would know that none of the companies above do door to door sales the contract IRISH companies to do it

So Vodaphone airtricty etc aren't accepting the clients these companies sign up?

I really don't give a hoot who is contracting with who to do door to door sales. The director at what ever level has lost all sense of perceptive when they engage in such shoddy underhand tactics. In the UK a number of police forces have told people not to engage with people buying and selling on the door step and produced leaflets and stickers to go on people's door.

Any time I get a door to door person I politely tell them to naff off and will make a complaint to the company they purport to be working for.

BTW slander and libel are now one tort of defamation. Even so my comments would be potentially be libellous not slanderous. The comment would have to be untrue to be either.

Menas

YoYoGotToGo wrote: »

Eircom is two seperate companies wholsale and retail , retail is noting but a customer of wholesale like the rest of the providers , Wholesale could care less who the provider is as the line rental fees are what generates revenue

And the ownership of these two 'seperate' companies?

lala88

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Guys please please please let this be a lesson to you and anyone else. (I'm not gloating it genuinely p***** me off when people are ripped off.)

If a company is using door to door sales avoid them.

I was in sales for a number of years with some reputable and some not so reputable companies. I can assure you that as soon as a company resorts to D2D sales they don't give a toss about their customers only revenue.

Its one thing to put leaflets through the door or even knock the door and offer information but as soon as a company is signing people up on the door step they are <SNIP>. To be clear I don't have an issue with the people themselves - they're just trying to make a buck in difficult economic times - but companies like Vodaphone, Eircom Phone watch, Airtricy et al are just <SNIP>, ran by <SNIP>.

Rant over complain to Comreg and the NCA not that either can do very much.

Bit harsh there. People complain (boards.ie a prime example) that things cost too much and when they can get it for cheaper they dont bother there arse to go get and and complain more when people bring it to them. If people wont join up by themselves how do they get new costumers?

ABajaninCork

We had to get an Eircom line when I first moved over. It was always our intention to change over to BT (now Vodafone), and Eircom were aware of that.

We got the Eircom line and working (after a bit of a struggle), then changed it over. Changeover went through smoothly, and all we got was a termination bill from Eircom for E36. No problem.

OP. I know reading the small print bores you. It would bore most people. But this should be a lesson to you. ALWAYS READ THE SMALL PRINT! If there's anything you don't understand, then call the service provider. Try to get any responses they make in writing.

dudara

Posters - Please stick to the original topic and do not go off-topic with a discussion of door-to-door sales. I have had to close threads in the past because of such behaviour.

dudara

Marsman

Looks like all these phone/broadband providers just walk over you and ignore fair play and customer's rights.
In my case I'd been with Vodafone 4-5 years. All okay till the broadband went downhill badly. Switched to UPC (already had the cable TV with them).
Then got a bill for €300 from Vodafone!
Why? Apparently they phoned me one day 6 months earlier gave me an "upgrade" of extra free minutes to USA/Canada which I did not need and this tied me to a new 12 month contract!
I had forgotten this call, nothing mentioned to UPC or me at the switch-over time. Also, there was nothing in writing, e-mail or otherwise confirming the new contract. Nothing to sign, no paperwork whatsoever and no record for me.
I am supposed to remember every detail of an uninvited and unwanted phone call from their sales agent for up to 12 months and this is all LEGAL!!
If you want to exit from Vodafone because of the poor broadband, make sure you document every phone call, confirm time/date by e-mail, tape the phone calls if you can (they will tape Your calls).

Best of Luck

counterlock

Its as simple as this. If you break your contract with any service provider, expect them to charge you for the remaining period. Don't blame company A for not letting company B know that you were switching, it is not their responsibility to check the ins and outs of your contract.

And if a company calls you to 'upgrade' you or renew your contract, you are well within your rights to ask for their proposal in writing, but its a bit rich complaining if you cant even remember what was agreed on a call a week ago.

wmpdd3

I agree that company B should not have to sort out you contract with company A, but I really have an issue with this signing you up to another contract over the phone. It is sneaky and this is coming from someone who used to work in outbound sales!

My mother rang eircom to find out how much it would be to call an australian mobile and she was rail roaded into a international call bundle contract. She had to keep insisting that her call be recorded and kept saying I do not want a contract with eircom, like a robot. I had warned her before how these things work.

This is very shady practice and at the very least it should come under the distance selling act and there should be written notification and a 7 days cooling off period.

RangeR

wmpdd3 wrote: »

at the very least it should come under the distance selling act and there should be written notification and a 7 days cooling off period.

It does. Distance Selling relates to phone and internet contracts.

Marsman

Thanks everybody for all your comments. Glad to note general agreement this activity comes under the distance selling regulations.
However, do I have to go to court to have them enforced?
Just to point out to "Counterlock" that is was six months later I had forgotten the phone call, not a week later!
Also, the distance selling regulations require the service provider to provide the written confirmation...the customer does not have to ask for it.;)

RangeR

Distance Selling doesn't apply to you. You left it much too late

Marsman

RangeR wrote: »

Distance Selling doesn't apply to you. You left it much too late

I don't really understand the comment "left it too late"
If the phone company had simply e-mailed me confirmation of the new 12 month contract following the verbal phone agreement, I would have this on record.
Thus, several months later, when the subject of switching to another provider came up, this record would be there to remind me of the contract still in force.
(My limited human memory failed to recall this phone call many months later).

RangeR

Marsman wrote: »

I don't really understand the comment "left it too late"
If the phone company had simply e-mailed me confirmation of the new 12 month contract following the verbal phone agreement, I would have this on record.
Thus, several months later, when the subject of switching to another provider came up, this record would be there to remind me of the contract still in force.
(My limited human memory failed to recall this phone call many months later).

Unfortunately, distance selling only applies up to 7 days after contract starts. Its a legal cooling off period.

They also nave no obligation to email you a reminder.

slimjimmc

RangeR wrote: »

Unfortunately, distance selling only applies up to 7 days after contract starts. Its a legal cooling off period.

They also nave no obligation to email you a reminder.

But they do have an obligation to provide you with written confirmation of certain contract details which they are legally obliged to tell you about before signing up.

If, as the OP claims, he didn't receive written confirmation of the new minimum contract period then there may be a technical breach of the regulations which might conceivably allow him an exit.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/distance_selling.html

RangeR

slimjimmc wrote: »

But they do have an obligation to provide you with written confirmation of certain contract details which they are legally obliged to tell you about before signing up.

If, as the OP claims, he didn't receive written confirmation of the new minimum contract period then there may be a technical breach of the regulations which might conceivably allow him an exit.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/distance_selling.html

Agreed. Requesting a copy of the recorded call would be best bet. No recording means no contract. Recording should also mention new contract. If it doesn't, then you don't have one.

tvman2

Same happened recently changed to Vodafone from Eircom - got a bill for hundreds of euros. Thing is I haven't had any contact with Eircom for years bar paying the bill. Got a replacement modem over two years ago or maybe more. Why did I get that bill.They upgraded the speed recently would this be the reason - no new contract involved as far as I am concerned.

hughowen

There should be a system where if you cancel a contracted monthly bill that you have to be told by both the existing supplier and the new supplier that the charge will be xxx amount before you will be moved over and incur charges and both providers should have a system where it would help us, the customer, and not them the provider to make money from people that are just trying to get better deals out there.
The underhandiness of the whole thing stinks to me and I was caught before in the same thing and have learned a valuable lesson, I won't get caught again.

Moral, know what you sign up for

Marsman

tvman2 wrote: »

Same happened recently changed to Vodafone from Eircom - got a bill for hundreds of euros. Thing is I haven't had any contact with Eircom for years bar paying the bill. Got a replacement modem over two years ago or maybe more. Why did I get that bill.They upgraded the speed recently would this be the reason - no new contract involved as far as I am concerned.

Think back how the speed was upgraded. Did this come as an offer that you actively accepted?. Any upgrade "which you agree to" whether by phone, e-mail, text or post will, according to their terms and conditions,constitute a new minimum term contract which they will try and enforce.
However,the speed improvement may have been provided to all customers without individuals having to take any action.
In this case there is no new contract unless, as I suspect, there was some sort of sneaky "opt out" provision provided. Then, if you did not "opt out" they would consider you accepted the "upgrade" and the attached new contract term would apply.
Remember, these companies employ dozens of legal experts constantly working out ways to circumvent rules and regulations and keep themselves "barely legal"
My advise is do not pay this bill unless they provide you with real evidence that you agreed to a new contract.

tvman2

Thanks for the reply,
The speed changed just when I switched to Vodafone, cannot be sure exactly the day as I only noticed the change when I downloaded a large file and it downloaded in a very short time (speed went from 2 to current 15Mb/s) I thought at the time (about a month ago) that it was thanks to Vodafone or the new modem, but as Vodafone use Eircom nets??. The Eircom broadband map indicates that my area hasn't been upgraded to efibre yet, if that is the plan. Could Eircom have upgraded the network prior to efibre rollout. Anyway I have contacted Eircom for an explanation as to what contract they refer to in their final bill, they said will get back to me within ten days, that was 7 days ago.

emeldc

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Any service provider who rings and offers something for 'free' is usually tying you into an extended contract.
I'm out of contract with Vodafone for the landline and this is a conversation I had with a rep a few weeks back :rolleyes:

Vodafone: I see your landline is up for renewal, are you happy to continue with us?

Me: Oh no, are you going to cut me off?

V: Of course not, we just want to know if you are happy with the service and want to continue with us.

Me: But surely if I wasn't happy I'd be ringing you?

V: Yes, but we just want to see if you want to continue with us......

Me: So if I say no, then will you cut me off.

V: No, not unless you want us to.

Me: I don't want you to, but if I say yes, will I be tied into another contract.

V: Ermm (pause) No

Me: So why are you ringing me, I'm kind of busy.

V: Sorry about that.

Me: See ya.

irishgirl19

make a complaint to vodafone about being misold and they should let u break the contract and when u go to eircom they'll waive the early cease charge

tvman2

irishgirl19 wrote: »

make a complaint to vodafone about being misold and they should let u break the contract and when u go to eircom they'll waive the early cease charge

Will wait and see what Eircom say re. the 'contract' Don't want to go back to Eircom. Their bundle was costing over €55 a month Vs Vodafone at €30. Rarely use the land line for calls, tried a USB modem - erratic download speed. The Vodafone package is ideal. BTW rang Eircom before changing to see if they could match Vodafone offer or if there were any issues with the account with them, answer was no to both questions.