Early frosts and Parlour equipment freezing-advice

Farfield

I put in a new parlour last year and all been going grand all year. This past week or two i have noticed when it is "minus 1 or 2" at night the milk pump in the pit not that happy for the first row of cows and this morning the vacuum regulator was froze, whole system shut down. Any tips/what u guys that milk in the winter have for keeping all going?? I cant believe there are problems with only a wee bit of frost.

bbam

Farfield wrote: »

I put in a new parlour last year and all been going grand all year. This past week or two i have noticed when it is "minus 1 or 2" at night the milk pump in the pit not that happy for the first row of cows and this morning the vacuum regulator was froze, whole system shut down. Any tips/what u guys that milk in the winter have for keeping all going?? I cant believe there are problems with only a wee bit of frost.

Your best defence is to thoroughly drain the machine after milking, you'd be surprised the amount of problems that can be avoided if this is done properly..

Then you need to look into reducing the cold wind access to the parlour..

whelan1

How open is your parlour? As bbam says drain all water leave alk taps open. Leave inplate cooler open at bottom and maybe even leave lights on in parlour

shy_boy

bbam wrote: »

Your best defence is to thoroughly drain the machine after milking, you'd be surprised the amount of problems that can be avoided if this is done properly..

Then you need to look into reducing the cold wind access to the parlour..

in the FJ there is a advertisement, im not sure what there called but there plastic strips that hang down in an open area to retrict wind from getting in

Farfield

The parlour is well closed up and accesses into the cows. Its not the water thats causing the problems at this stage though, its the bloody equipment. Cant get over the vacuum regulator sticking this morning.Looks like i will have to start to use a space heater. Not a nice feeling working away and all shuts down and drops off.You immediately think its the electric and then look up and see the lights still on. Only then i noticed the vacuum level up over 60. Hit the thing a knock and turned all on and away all went again.

Leaving the lights on all night helps. On very cold nights that is what I do, and I find it makes a difference.
The parlour is open on one side, but is well lit (8 sets of double fluorescents).

Markcheese

As it's still a new parlour ring the crowd who put it in .. See what they have to say... And drain every thing ... If you have to put a hot rinse through the system before you start ....

martin.covan

Those things should not be freezing at -1 or -2
Two years ago,they didn't do that on us and it was below minus 10 at night,freezing in the day and a level 19 inches of snow in the yard Xmas week.

We put 2 oil filled electric heaters in the parlour on all day and night between mil kings and had to leave taps running.

If you're having trouble now,how on earth would you cope in proper cold.

Contact the installer.

bogman_bass

like was said drain the pump.
we used to cover the pulsators wirth old jackets too

freedominacup

No sure about the regulator problem but for pipework etc put a bit of salt in the water for the final rinse. Much lower freezing temp for salt water over fresh. Quick rinse with freshwater before milking and off you go. No need to split pipes etc worked two years ago in those minus 10 and 12's.

grumpyfarmer

Draining everything and leaving the jetters and clusters hanging down works for me. a neighbour who has a machine with recording jars installed 3 or 4 red lamps over the pit on a thermostat switch to come on automaticly, with mixed results... both parlour are full exposed to the rear. as for the regulator freezing there must be moisture getting in to the vacuum line which shouldn't be. as others said contact your installer especially since its such a new machine...

Farfield

The regulator vents out through a North facing wall - its one of those new quiet type ones to keep the noise down. Moisture probably getting up that pipe.
How much salt do you put into the final rinse? Does it do any harm to the electronic meters etc? Do you dump this all out at the end or leave in system?

freedominacup

Farfield wrote: »

The regulator vents out through a North facing wall - its one of those new quiet type ones to keep the noise down. Moisture probably getting up that pipe.
How much salt do you put into the final rinse? Does it do any harm to the electronic meters etc? Do you dump this all out at the end or leave in system?

Just the final rinse, drain as you would any other time. 2-3 kgs in last 100 litres should do it.

Farfield

Freedominacup i take it that you use just normal table salt that you would put on your dinner!! - Do you have jars or electronic meters?

freedominacup

Farfield wrote: »

Freedominacup i take it that you use just normal table salt that you would put on your dinner!! - Do you have jars or electronic meters?

No the milling salt you get in the merchants in 25kg bags. No problem for elec meters.

bbam

freedominacup wrote: »

Just the final rinse, drain as you would any other time. 2-3 kgs in last 100 litres should do it.

Farfield wrote: »

Freedominacup i take it that you use just normal table salt that you would put on your dinner!! - Do you have jars or electronic meters?

There should be no need for this, maybe in extreme weather.
If your having problems in such light frosts the problem is either;

1. The machine has been installed incorrectly and won't drain.
2. The installer hasn't shown you how to properly drain the machine.
3. You're not draining the machine as shown.
4. The parlour is very exposed and would benifet from closing up a bit.

Get the installer back out, have the machine serviced as there may be water in the vacuum regulator.
Have him go through the proper drain procedure, make sure everyone knows how to drain the machine properly.

Remember to drain the machine after morning milkings on frosty days, people get very caught out on that.

I spent years installing, servicing and doing callouts on milking machines and you shouldn't be having these problems at this stage, it just hasn't been frosty enough..

Farfield

BBAM i am having the installer come out to service the thing in the next week or so. I actually am draining all down in a text book fashion as they told me.
I reckon condensation has got up the pipe coming in from the outside into the regulator and must be freezing a bit. Is there an emergency shut off on the vacuum pump that caused it to stop sunday morning when the levels rose away above 60?
Re the milk pump, it goes ok, but sounds rough on a frosty morning for the first row or two of cows and then fine. There is a wee bung right next to it which is opended to let the water out every morning and night, so dont know how water is freezing/sticking in here.
The parlour is actually well closed up.

John_F

Farfield wrote: »

I put in a new parlour last year and all been going grand all year. This past week or two i have noticed when it is "minus 1 or 2" at night the milk pump in the pit not that happy for the first row of cows and this morning the vacuum regulator was froze, whole system shut down. Any tips/what u guys that milk in the winter have for keeping all going?? I cant believe there are problems with only a wee bit of frost.

out of curiosity what make of parlour is it (i know what happened the cat)

Viewtodiefor

bbam wrote: »

There should be no need for this, maybe in extreme weather.
If your having problems in such light frosts the problem is either;

1. The machine has been installed incorrectly and won't drain.
2. The installer hasn't shown you how to properly drain the machine.
3. You're not draining the machine as shown.
4. The parlour is very exposed and would benifet from closing up a bit.

Get the installer back out, have the machine serviced as there may be water in the vacuum regulator.
Have him go through the proper drain procedure, make sure everyone knows how to drain the machine properly.

Remember to drain the machine after morning milkings on frosty days, people get very caught out on that.

I spent years installing, servicing and doing callouts on milking machines and you shouldn't be having these problems at this stage, it just hasn't been frosty enough..

I agree with bbam on this you shouldn't be having these problems it is hardly freezing really to be honest -1 r -2 that's not cold.
Get back to your dealer tell him it's not good enough and he has to sort it out.
There is something wrong. Be persistent and annoying if you ain't getting the right responses!

bbam

Farfield wrote: »

BBAM i am having the installer come out to service the thing in the next week or so. I actually am draining all down in a text book fashion as they told me.
I reckon condensation has got up the pipe coming in from the outside into the regulator and must be freezing a bit. Is there an emergency shut off on the vacuum pump that caused it to stop sunday morning when the levels rose away above 60?
Re the milk pump, it goes ok, but sounds rough on a frosty morning for the first row or two of cows and then fine. There is a wee bung right next to it which is opended to let the water out every morning and night, so dont know how water is freezing/sticking in here.
The parlour is actually well closed up.

No shutoff on the pump related to vacuum, however if the pump is overloaded enough the overload protection in the starter probably tripped the motor.

What brand of machine? New or second hand?
I'm not familiar with a breather on the regulator but I have been away from machines for a while.

You need to get his nailed down now as when we actually have frost you'll be tortured.

Farfield

BBAM the vacuum pump is a new Fulwood one and the vacuum regulator is a Kingston one with a filter in it - looks a bit like a flying saucer!! All the gear is new, well 10 months old at this stage. I defo reckon condensation getting up the vent pipe into it from outside, its just inside the wall and freezing. Having said that, its strange that it milked the first row grand and ballsed up on the second row. I didnt know why all dropped off, but then i noticed the vacuum gauge at over 60, so i simply thumped it a few times and went and reset the pump and away all went & grand since.

You know what, maybe its not the frost at all re the regulator, maybe the bloody thing is going to start giving bother- sticking. Well its under warranty and i will chase this up. I agree with you on the Vacuum pump, i think it overloaded & tripped out as i had to "reset" the on/off to get it going again.

marknjb

the best job to stop the freezing is to put in a few red lamps over anything that is likely to freez and have them switched on by a frost stat

i did this in my friends paurlor a few year ago and he gets no trouble

whelan1

jeez if you have these problems at only just below freezing imagine what it would be like at - 15:D

6480

Farfield wrote: »

I put in a new parlour last year and all been going grand all year. This past week or two i have noticed when it is "minus 1 or 2" at night the milk pump in the pit not that happy for the first row of cows and this morning the vacuum regulator was froze, whole system shut down. Any tips/what u guys that milk in the winter have for keeping all going?? I cant believe there are problems with only a wee bit of frost.

how did u manage two years ago we were in the middle of it at this stage , i think u have some other problem with ur milking machine

Viewtodiefor

Farfield wrote: »

BBAM the vacuum pump is a new Fulwood one and the vacuum regulator is a Kingston one with a filter in it - looks a bit like a flying saucer!! All the gear is new, well 10 months old at this stage. I defo reckon condensation getting up the vent pipe into it from outside, its just inside the wall and freezing. Having said that, its strange that it milked the first row grand and ballsed up on the second row. I didnt know why all dropped off, but then i noticed the vacuum gauge at over 60, so i simply thumped it a few times and went and reset the pump and away all went & grand since.

You know what, maybe its not the frost at all re the regulator, maybe the bloody thing is going to start giving bother- sticking. Well its under warranty and i will chase this up. I agree with you on the Vacuum pump, i think it overloaded & tripped out as i had to "reset" the on/off to get it going again.

By any chance is there water in the vacuum line? Double check!! can it drain properly?
Your milk pump should not give problems if drained. And if not drained at 1r 2deg c is unlikely to give problem either.

bbam

Farfield wrote: »

vacuum regulator is a Kingston one with a filter in it - looks a bit like a flying saucer!!

I wouldn't rate the kingston regulator, better with a two part Alfa one, more accurate and more reliable..

whelan1

how was your parlour this morning?

Farfield

Well Whelan, i have now taken off the air inlet pipe to the regulator that comes thru the wall from outside off so its getting its air from inside the parlour now and thats now grand and no big difference in noise at all -will leave it like that.
But the milk pump still not happy for first 15-16 cows. I even put in a big space heater in the pit on a time clock to go for an hour before milking this morning and it defo took out the chill, so something wrong with the pump i think. Parlour guys comin to service all in the next fortnight and as its under warranty i think i want it replaced. I am defo draining all the best i can.
Do u use space heaters at all? They work well but by god they like their diesel - a gallon an hour, you do the sums!! Not cheap heat.
What way ur parlour?

Also cows could not go out t stand in the yard after milkin as it was like a bottle - had t put them straight back in. Its a real balls trying t scrape passage ways and do the cubicles when the cows are in the shed.

whelan1

Farfield wrote: »

Well Whelan, i have now taken off the air inlet pipe to the regulator that comes thru the wall from outside off so its getting its air from inside the parlour now and thats now grand and no big difference in noise at all -will leave it like that.
But the milk pump still not happy for first 15-16 cows. I even put in a big space heater in the pit on a time clock to go for an hour before milking this morning and it defo took out the chill, so something wrong with the pump i think. Parlour guys comin to service all in the next fortnight and as its under warranty i think i want it replaced. I am defo draining all the best i can.
Do u use space heaters at all? They work well but by god they like their diesel - a gallon an hour, you do the sums!! Not cheap heat.
What way ur parlour?

Also cows could not go out t stand in the yard after milkin as it was like a bottle - had t put them straight back in. Its a real balls trying t scrape passage ways and do the cubicles when the cows are in the shed.

ours was fine, dont powerwash outside when you know there is frost coming.... only time we used a heater was in the real hard snow 2 years ago , used a superser... also covered milk pump etc with old coats etc..... leave lights on and close all doors

bbam

It depends what sort of lights you have.. Flourescents use so little energy that there is near no heat given off.. Particularly within the IP rated fittings.

I think needing a space heater for this weather is mad... I'm thinking the milk pump is the problem rather than the frost..

The only negative I can think of from removing the breather pipe from the regulator is it may get dirtier inside, that would be the purpose of piping in fresh air rather than the noise.

Regarding keeping the milk pumps frost free in bad weather.. I've wondered about the trace heater elements used in seed beds, flexible so it could be carefully wound round the head of the pump.

http://www.johnstowngardencentre.ie/soil-warming-cable----parasene/soil_cable_parasenepd.aspx

Only 50W so it wouldn't be a bear on the electricity either...

Of course care would be needed as you're bringing a power source to the machine/pit which is inevitably wet...

Farfield

I agree, i think the milk pump is the problem. Am going to get it changed under warranty. In the spring i will pipe in fresh air to the regulator from outside again. In the mean time it can stay in during winter.
My flourescent lights are all big doubles, but new type and there is no heat off them at all.

bt12

milk pump shouldnt give any trouble in this sort of weather, i have a couple of customers with nz style parlour and arent giving any bother. i think the milk pump isnt draining fully, is it a flomax or fullwood pump, there should be a drain point under the pump head, is the drain point at the lowest point on milk line? re regulator id try get a different make, u want to keep vac stable at all times

Farfield

BT12 its a fulwood pump and the wee drain valve beside the pump is let run out after every milking and it is the lowest point in the milk line alright.
Time to get a new one me thinks and the drain fully checked out. The installer didhave to take out the wee propeller in it back in the spring and grinded it down a bit with grinder as it was sticking. So all in all that should not be needed.

bt12

ya agree, get the regulator sorted aswell

whelan1

how did you get on this morning?

Farfield

All grand this morning. Got all serviced also this week. Regulator getting its air now from inside parlour and there is a bearing gone in the milk pump. Its going t hav t b replaced under warranty. God knows It didnt last long!!

Street like a bottle though so all straight back into sheds and usual hassle of beddin cubicles and scraping passages with cows tramping about not as easy. But better than doing the splits in the yard!!

What about u??