Scart to HDMI

djsim101

The wife was on to be there to start thinking about Christmas presents :rolleyes:

I was thinking about getting one of these:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/scart-to-hdmi-convertor-1080p-518788

Anyone here have one? I have my doubts on the output quality?

And the MAIN question, will it make my retro consoles even better

docentore

djsim101 wrote: »

The wife was on to be there to start thinking about Christmas presents :rolleyes:

I was thinking about getting one of these:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/scart-to-hdmi-convertor-1080p-518788

Anyone here have one? I have my doubts on the output quality?

And the MAIN question, will it make my retro consoles even better

If your tv does not have full rgb scart input then then I'd say it will be better than composite. But if it does stay with that and don't waste your wife's money

djsim101

thanks man. So over RGB, i wont see any different at all?

What about when one uses emulators, the games often look a lot better on the PC with all the effects that you can add?

Would this magic not do the same, but with the real hardware ( wishful thinking)

J_E

djsim101 wrote: »

thanks man. So over RGB, i wont see any different at all?

What about when one uses emulators, the games often look a lot better on the PC with all the effects that you can add?

Would this magic not do the same, but with the real hardware ( wishful thinking)

The emulators tend to use a lot of extra filters the consoles never originally had though.

CiDeRmAn

Real hardware is not as expensive as you think.
In fact, for a small outlay of, say, €60 on Adverts you could pick up the retro console of your choice with some decent games.
All you need to do then is ask around friends and family for a portable telly, something with a CRT and you are sound as a pound!
Always better on original hardware.
Yes, you should do all of this with NTSC hardware and games, either Jap or US, but that can be a little intimidating and if all you want to do is dip your toes in the ocean of retrogaming goodness then some cheap Pal consoles are a great way to dive right in!

djsim101

Cheers CiDeRmAn, I have every retro console under the sun - okay a slight exaggeration

Just wondering, would the above upscaler improve the picture while using a megadrive \ snes \ saturn etc?

o1s1n

That device is what's known as a scaler. It adds extra lines to the RGB signal to make it fill the HDMI image.

It all depends on how good of a scaler it is. Cheap ones tend to produce not so nice results - good ones dont come cheap unfortunately.

I just ordered one of these myself from Arcade Forge. You can get a complete kit here. This will even give you scanlines on your LCD tv to make games look like they should.

http://www.arcadeforge.de/product_info.php?products_id=29&XTCsid=4sc7bo48reql9dr8d28n00ruo2

J_E

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Always better on original hardware.

I don't know...I think that tends to be a more psychological thing. A lot of major emulators are pretty damn good at either perfectly replicating the console or even improving on the image. I guess I don't get spending €100+ euro on scalers and stuff when you can use an emulator that does the job. I bet if I had two screens, one with the original and one with the emulator, you could only tell the difference by the blurriness!

o1s1n

Cydoniac wrote: »

I don't know...I think that tends to be a more psychological thing. A lot of major emulators are pretty damn good at either perfectly replicating the console or even improving on the image. I guess I don't get spending €100+ euro on scalers and stuff when you can use an emulator that does the job. I bet if I had two screens, one with the original and one with the emulator, you could only tell the difference by the blurriness!

As someone who spends far too much of his income on classic games and consoles, I can tell you that it is not a phychological thing :P

The image coming out of the original console, displayed in the correct aspect ratio on a CRT screen with scanlines is how the artwork was designed to look. It doesn't look 'blurry' or 'noisy' if you display it through a proper RGB cable (Which again, were around at the time when these consoles were released). RGB gives pixel by pixel clarity.

Sure, emulators can look and run well...but they'll always be off. Be it someone playing an emu on an LCD screen without scanlines, or in the wrong aspect ratio, or emulation timing issues. Hell, they can't replicate plugging a cart into a console - and to me, that's more than enough to go with original hardware

On the scaler issue, you don't necessarily need one. Just get a CRT with scart sockets and that's all the display you'll ever need for old consoles.

Megadrive + Sony Trinitron flat screen CRT = about €50 in total, and will be the best classic gaming experience you can get. As, well..it's the real deal.

Retr0gamer

Cydoniac wrote: »

I don't know...I think that tends to be a more psychological thing. A lot of major emulators are pretty damn good at either perfectly replicating the console or even improving on the image. I guess I don't get spending €100+ euro on scalers and stuff when you can use an emulator that does the job. I bet if I had two screens, one with the original and one with the emulator, you could only tell the difference by the blurriness!

It's really not the same. Also you really shouldn't be using filters like edge enhancers, they destroy the detail in the pixel art and look terrible. If you really must use a filter at least go for one that properly emulates how it looks on a RGB screen with scanlines. Good ones however can be very processor intensive.

Emulators don't run games anywhere near perfect. Most emulators fudge the timing of games so that they run correctly. What you get is popular games running well after years of tweaking but other games with timing issues. An example being the shin megami tensei fan translations that have timing issues but run perfect on real hardware. The closest you will get to great emulation is BSNES which requires a silly amount of processing power. It's still not perfect. Other emulators are just fudging it. When you get to 32-bit machines from saturn and PS1 onwards emulation is just disgraceful.

Myrddin

Cydoniac wrote: »

I bet if I had two screens, one with the original and one with the emulator, you could only tell the difference by the blurriness!

I have two screens, & trust me, anyone would tell the difference, casual gamer or hardcore collector. Run the same game on one crt tv & an original console, & the other on an emulator through an lcd/plasma screen. Guess which one sh1ts all over the other...here's a hint, it's not the emulator/lcd

Yes you can buy scalers etc to give the look of a crt on an lcd, personally though I'd always advocate using a crt wherever possible if you have the space, coupled with an rgb connection, the picture is absolutely gorgeous.

Emulators are fine for pick up & play type gaming maybe, but if your serious about your hobby, whatever that hobby may be, you want the truest experience possible. If you sit with both setups running side by side, as I have before, there's a clear winner for both visual quality & playing games the way they were intended to be played.

The one exception I found is when it comes to arcade cabs. Again I compared like for like, real board versus emulated rom...to my eye, I was extremely happy with the emulated look & feel of the games I owned as pcb's, so decided to sell them off & stick to emulation in the cab. I've no doubt though the low res arcade monitor crt is making all the difference there though

djsim101

I am sitting on both sides of the fence :-)

When you get to 32-bit machines from saturn and PS1 onwards emulation is just disgraceful.

I must admit that PS1 emulation is actually very good. ePSXe version 1.8 is out now and I spent a lot of time configuring the settings and for the games I want to play, is actually better than playing them on the real hardware, certainly in my case anyway, as I have a large LCD. As with most of you, I have 1000's of games to hand on PC, and emulation is a great way to get into playing retro games for nothing.

On the other hand though, I LOVE collecting retro hardware. It is like a drug. I started of with getting all the consoles I had as a kid, megadrive, C64, Saturn etc and I thought I would stop with these, but no.....just keep on collecting.

Emulation & Original hardware can also work great together. The best thing I purchased in a long while is my C64 flash cart, having all my games on micro card, while playing on my C64, now that my friends, is pure gold -)

Myrddin

djsim101 wrote: »

I must admit that PS1 emulation is actually very good

Its really not, sure it plays the games, but it looks & feels nothing like playing them on a PS1. Its an over-complicated plugin ridden mess that through its use of filters & processing after effects, looks nothing like what PS1 games actually look like. N64 isn't much better either

o1s1n

If someone here says they don't use emulation they're lying! I remember the now MIA Pyongyang used to state this and even he slipped up once by mentioning that he tested out an arcade PCB in MAME before buying it!

They work great in conjunction with each other. I generally use emulation to test out games i want to buy.

As of late, I've fallen into this middle ground of using flash carts and burning disc based games. Something I said I'd never do!

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

I remember the now MIA Pyongyang used to state this and even he slipped up once by mentioning that he tested out an arcade PCB in MAME before buying it!

I believe he's actually KIA...a modified Gnet board electrocuted him while he was trying to play original bootleg games

djsim101

Everyone uses emulators, but in fairness to us all, we also buy the original games \ hardware so there is no harm done.

EnterNow Quote:
Originally Posted by djsim101
I must admit that PS1 emulation is actually very good

Its really not, sure it plays the games, but it looks & feels nothing like playing them on a PS

Shame on you, I have Pong working 99.99% true to the original hardware

Retr0gamer

djsim101 wrote: »

I spent a lot of time configuring the settings and for the games I want to play

And there lies the big problem with it. You mess around with plug ins for ages and it still doesn't look anything close to the real hardware and anything but the big name games are riddled with timing issues that can break games. You are better off chipping a PS1, it's what I have.

johnboysligo

Cydoniac wrote: »

I bet if I had two screens, one with the original and one with the emulator, you could only tell the difference by the blurriness!

Not really, accuracy is always an issue for emulators. That can be visual FX not rendering as intended, missing or distorted audio fx (or even whole channels just a tiny bit off) or inaccurate color reproduction, you would be surprised at how many popular games require specialized code to run at a playable fps.

Usually its down to the emulator running the games code too fast or executing it out of order or even some functions of a specific component not being fully understood and feasible to replicate in software.

Accurately emulating all functions and timings of a console is extraordinarily difficult, its only in the past 5 years that near perfect Nes and Snes emulators have been able to run at playable levels.

Its easier to see these inaccuracies on a N64 because a lot of games ran specialized microcode (think drivers like on your pc) that are really tough to fake the results the microcode wants / needs in order to function correctly.
Rogue Squadron is a good example, its totally unplayable but if the emulator had near perfect accuracy it could be playable.



That said you have to really really look and listen for most of those imperfections before they begin to stand out and then you cant "un-see" them

djsim101

Quote:
Originally Posted by djsim101
I spent a lot of time configuring the settings and for the games I want to play

And there lies the big problem with it

TBH, call me strange, but I kinda enjoy tweaking the settings, see which settings improve \ wreck the game emulation. I feel it as a challenge and have to take it on. Spend 2 hours getting it right, then spend 2 mins playing the game, never to return to it. That is a Saturday nite well spent

CosmicSmash

EnterNow wrote: »

I believe he's actually KIA...a modified Gnet board electrocuted him while he was trying to play original bootleg games

Sad news to hear, he just wouldn't listen. That last pcb was just a pcb to far, it must have pushed him over the edge. Here's hoping he can 1cc everything on the other side.