Suggestions for prcing up a 4 acre parcel of good tillage / grazing land for yearly l

An Ri rua

How do.

My parents have been renting a 4 acre parcel of land to an adjoining farmer for a number of years at €320pa.

I always thought this was low but now I believe its closer to half price? And lower again the way 2012 prices are going.

Was working through a lot of threads here last night and Farmer's Journal news articles on latest prices. Some of which are skyhigh-crazy, like recent tillage leases achieved in south Laois. We're close by, in Offaly, on very good, well-draining land in a single field; with lane access to a road and a couple of hundred yards from a large town.

I was wondering how many have dabbled with the idea of allotments for good land so close to a town boundary? I know that good allotments are more than just good land; they require a good investment in ancillary services such as paths, parking etc. Has anyone here toyed with it or done it?

Also, what would be a good price for leasing to a neighbour who's been using it going on almost a decade. Grazes it, then does usually one cut of silage off of it. Although I saw it take 2 in some years. I saw prices of 100 an acre for silage alone, off the stem. Am I right that we should be looking to charge anywhere between 130-170 an acre in the current climate?

This land hasn't been reseeded in 15 years I'd say; but gets a good lot of slurry every season.

I know there's a lot of threads like this but I'd appreciate any thoughts. I have a general feel for the various leasing scenarios and of taking into account a good tenant etc; but this lad does nothing in terms of ditch maintenance. If anything, has opened up gaps into another rented field, between us and their own farm; as if he owns the place. He does fertilise it well though, in terms of upping silage yield.

ps I'm not a farmer. Have an outsider's view; raised on a part-time farm but I'm not versed in land letting at all.

bob charles

An Ri rua wrote: »

How do.

My parents have been renting a 4 acre parcel of land to an adjoining farmer for a number of years at €320pa.

I always thought this was low but now I believe its closer to half price? And lower again the way 2012 prices are going.

Was working through a lot of threads here last night and Farmer's Journal news articles on latest prices. Some of which are skyhigh-crazy, like recent tillage leases achieved in south Laois. We're close by, in Offaly, on very good, well-draining land in a single field; with lane access to a road and a couple of hundred yards from a large town.

I was wondering how many have dabbled with the idea of allotments for good land so close to a town boundary? I know that good allotments are more than just good land; they require a good investment in ancillary services such as paths, parking etc. Has anyone here toyed with it or done it?

Also, what would be a good price for leasing to a neighbour who's been using it going on almost a decade. Grazes it, then does usually one cut of silage off of it. Although I saw it take 2 in some years. I saw prices of 100 an acre for silage alone, off the stem. Am I right that we should be looking to charge anywhere between 130-170 an acre in the current climate?

This land hasn't been reseeded in 15 years I'd say; but gets a good lot of slurry every season.

I know there's a lot of threads like this but I'd appreciate any thoughts. I have a general feel for the various leasing scenarios and of taking into account a good tenant etc; but this lad does nothing in terms of ditch maintenance. If anything, has opened up gaps into another rented field, between us and their own farm; as if he owns the place. He does fertilise it well though, in terms of upping silage yield.

ps I'm not a farmer. Have an outsider's view; raised on a part-time farm but I'm not versed in land letting at all.

your not getting that bad a deal, from reading what you say the farmer replimishes what nutrients he takes each year. Sky high rents and this wont happen. Considering its only a 4 ac field this has to come into the equation aswell. Probably a 100 an ac would be closer to the market value for such a small parcel.

An Ri rua

Appreciate that input.

An Ri rua

Anyone else any views on this?

Was chatting a good farming friend last night and he said 200 an acre the way things are going for good grazing / silage land, even at 4 acres? We're in Offaly. This field is good for tillage or grazing or silage. Its seen it all

Viewtodiefor

An Ri rua wrote: »

Anyone else any views on this?

Was chatting a good farming friend last night and he said 200 an acre the way things are going for good grazing / silage land, even at 4 acres? We're in Offaly. This field is good for tillage or grazing or silage. Its seen it all

Sure tell him send on the guys paying that money n Ull gladly take it. Be aware they might not always be there though!

crackcrack30

If that guy respects the field, and is relativly trouble free, dosen't outwinter ect i'd be inclined to keep him.......,maybe sign a 5year contract with reseeding built in, or get him to do some ditch cutting & fencing as an add on, will benifit future leases ect...

Looked (googeled) up on the alotments onetime and I think there is deffo some potential there,,,,but insurance can be an issue, I think you need to set up a committie and contracts/rules which are found easily online................what u really need is someone to open and close a secure gate or atleast make sure everyone locks the gate, do you sink a well . do you allow hoses? parking? dumping? there is a lot of work but probably enjoyable if thats ur thing

6480

i would stick with the man that already rents your 4 acre field i rent an outlying farm and i keep in good order for the owner and it cost 1200 a year for 15 acres , the last few boys that had it rented never paid for it

An Ri rua

6480 wrote: »

i would stick with the man that already rents your 4 acre field i rent an outlying farm and i keep in good order for the owner and it cost 1200 a year for 15 acres , the last few boys that had it rented never paid for it

I hear you but no one would step (steps) on our land without paying in advance. Money talks.

ps I used to collect debts for my own business and for an oil company. I even collected dead debts 7 years old. How anyone lets anyone off money due is beyond me. How anyone gives credit where its not required (leasing land) is beyond me. Just deduct 5% say for cash upfront and price it back into the rental. Only an ejit would let someone use anything for a year before paying.

An Ri rua

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Sure tell him send on the guys paying that money n Ull gladly take it. Be aware they might not always be there though!

YOu're talking like a lad who resents renting what's not his. I want the best price and the best tenant. What's hard to figure out about that. Enough of the glib stuff, you're adding nothing.

mf240

4 acre parcel is hardly worth the hassel to anyone that isnt joining it (you didnt mention handling facilities) he prob just opened the gap to save him walking stock on the road.

You are sure of getting paid off this guy. There are lots of guys to outbid for land on day one but they may never pay.

Another guy might just spread straight nitrogen on it for a few years then leave it there when its run out.

If it was my field id ask 500.

The hedgecutting is usually left up to the land owner around here.

An Ri rua

crackcrack30 wrote: »

If that guy respects the field, and is relativly trouble free, dosen't outwinter ect i'd be inclined to keep him.......,maybe sign a 5year contract with reseeding built in, or get him to do some ditch cutting & fencing as an add on, will benifit future leases ect...

Looked (googeled) up on the alotments onetime and I think there is deffo some potential there,,,,but insurance can be an issue, I think you need to set up a committie and contracts/rules which are found easily online................what u really need is someone to open and close a secure gate or atleast make sure everyone locks the gate, do you sink a well . do you allow hoses? parking? dumping? there is a lot of work but probably enjoyable if thats ur thing

Nice input, thanks.

An Ri rua

Thanks folks, nice few answers there.

Ah yeh, I don't want to be hard on a neighbour. It is adjoining land to his neighbours, which he also rents (between us)> So opening gaps is not on.

But I don't want us to be soft on him and short-change my now widowed mother. 500 sounds like a reasonable middle ground alright. I don't think he's going to like it. But sure that's life.


ps
Surely a 4-acre parcel is well worth it though if we were to talk re-seeding it, fertilising it and selling silage off the stem or maybe even selling wrapped bales ourselves? Wouldn't risk-free winter feed be worth a 20 mile trip sure..

crackcrack30

At the end of the day i'ts just 4 acres, and 100 euro prob wont make or brake either of you, just like 4 acres won't make or brake the farmer,................... the time alone nevermind the fees, fertilizer, weather et ect, would put me off self saving the silage.

Have a chat with him and sort out 5yrs.........then put it out of ur mind.

Juniorhurler

At parcel size of four acres trust me, if you don't have an adjoining farmer interested you'll find it hard to set it.

Usually rented land about here is paid for at the end of the year so €400 for cash up front would sound fair, give him a five year lease on condition that he reseed it would be my suggestion.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.

13Ballymore

Jesus for an extra 100-120 euro, you're doing serious nitpicking. If he's a good tenant, leave him be. You could get another farmer who would destroy the land with heavy stock. Sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Sam Kade

An Ri rua wrote: »

How do.

My parents have been renting a 4 acre parcel of land to an adjoining farmer for a number of years at €320pa.

I always thought this was low but now I believe its closer to half price? And lower again the way 2012 prices are going.

Was working through a lot of threads here last night and Farmer's Journal news articles on latest prices. Some of which are skyhigh-crazy, like recent tillage leases achieved in south Laois. We're close by, in Offaly, on very good, well-draining land in a single field; with lane access to a road and a couple of hundred yards from a large town.

I was wondering how many have dabbled with the idea of allotments for good land so close to a town boundary? I know that good allotments are more than just good land; they require a good investment in ancillary services such as paths, parking etc. Has anyone here toyed with it or done it?

Also, what would be a good price for leasing to a neighbour who's been using it going on almost a decade. Grazes it, then does usually one cut of silage off of it. Although I saw it take 2 in some years. I saw prices of 100 an acre for silage alone, off the stem. Am I right that we should be looking to charge anywhere between 130-170 an acre in the current climate?

This land hasn't been reseeded in 15 years I'd say; but gets a good lot of slurry every season.

I know there's a lot of threads like this but I'd appreciate any thoughts. I have a general feel for the various leasing scenarios and of taking into account a good tenant etc; but this lad does nothing in terms of ditch maintenance. If anything, has opened up gaps into another rented field, between us and their own farm; as if he owns the place. He does fertilise it well though, in terms of upping silage yield.

ps I'm not a farmer. Have an outsider's view; raised on a part-time farm but I'm not versed in land letting at all.

A village near us put in allotments last year €25 a plot. I know a woman with allotments near Blarney €120 plot with her advice not many takers though.

DK man

Tillage is making €200/ acres here in Louth - however unless there are big tillage fields beside you a farmer is unlikely to travel far for four acres.

€80 is cheap land IMO - if I could get a field at that price I would definatly take it - but some of the points here about a good tenant are relavant

Overall I'd say ask for a bit more between 100 - 120 and everyone should still be happy

JohnBoy

There's nothing wrong with raising the rent in line with the market, but a good tenant is worth more than the top rent.

I'd be inclined to say a small bump in the rent and try and get some sort of lease in place plus a requirement for fencing, or reseeding or ditch maintenance, whichever will be most beneficial to the land.

An Ri rua

13Ballymore wrote: »

Jesus for an extra 100-120 euro, you're doing serious nitpicking. If he's a good tenant, leave him be. You could get another farmer who would destroy the land with heavy stock. Sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

I'm a nitpicker Is that alright Ballymore? There's 2 currencies. Time and money. Right now in this country we all have more time and less money. Simples.

An Ri rua

Thanks folks, lots to chew on there.

@13Ballymore, like I said originally, I'm not a farmer. So I wanted to get inside all of the various issues that present in leasing a field:- short / long term, re-seeding, ditch maintenance, selling it off the stem. I'm much wiser now after the exchanges here. Great advice and good counsel on holding onto a good tenant. He's also an old neighbour so that bears heavily too.
Nitpicking online makes for better decisions offline, I find. That's the whole point of forums like Boards @13Ballymore. Just like farming for me, sure you're only learning this stuff too :-D

All the best folks and have a great 2013. I hope to God that www.exactaweather.com aren't anyway right with their forecasts this year. Not looking great.