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20 years later who won the cold war? Who has changed more since?

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  • 17-11-2012 12:21am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭


    Given the break up of the USSR most people would assume that the USA was the victor in the Cold war. Looking deeper into the war the route of the differences seems to have been the battle between ideologies, the collective group think state control of the USSR versus the individual making their own way to success in the USA.

    My question is based on the currently evolving situations in both America and modern day Russia. America seems to embracing greater state control of healthcare, state interventions in industry have been welcomed, greater rights and benefits for unemployed- no mean achievement for an anti socialist nation! Russia despite their embracing of the free market still retains values of a collective commune based system, particularly outside of the cities. In fairness this is based on their system of commune based law going back to the mid 19th century.

    So I would say both nations have come to the centre from their left and right wing starting points- which has changed more?
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  • Registered Users Posts: 78,352 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Those are two very different questions.
    20 years later who won the cold war?
    The southern countries (Central and South America, Africa, Asia) are the winners, as there is no longer the same level of politico-military interference and disruption.
    Who has changed more since?
    They have both changed in different ways. However, it can be argued that the Soviet Union lost the greater amount of (direct) influence.

    Of note, the Cold War was both a political war (Camp A -v- Camp B) and an idealogical one (capitalist -v- communist, democrat -v- authoritarian).


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    China won. Look at Africa. They've changed most since the death of Mao.

    Japan did very well too but few social / political changes.

    The US and USSR went broke spending on systems that were only of use in WWIII. Even recently Romney could speak of handing the military two trillion dollars. US health care is very expensive. It's more of a subsidy for private industry / middle class health care workers than it is for the poor - so not really socialism.

    The USSR lost a full generation when it broke up. Health care dropped off the radar , education failures left a void of engineering/technology filled by believers in aliens and clairvoyants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    If you look at the post cold war political snapshot, I believe it's clear the US won.
    However, they have squandered that advantage since 2001 at least, are over extended militarily and economically.
    But still miles ahead of the competition yet...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭Canvasser


    Given the break up of the USSR most people would assume that the USA was the victor in the Cold war. Looking deeper into the war the route of the differences seems to have been the battle between ideologies, the collective group think state control of the USSR versus the individual making their own way to success in the USA.

    My question is based on the currently evolving situations in both America and modern day Russia. America seems to embracing greater state control of healthcare, state interventions in industry have been welcomed, greater rights and benefits for unemployed- no mean achievement for an anti socialist nation! Russia despite their embracing of the free market still retains values of a collective commune based system, particularly outside of the cities. In fairness this is based on their system of commune based law going back to the mid 19th century.

    So I would say both nations have come to the centre from their left and right wing starting points- which has changed more?

    Are you joking? There is no state control of healthcare, there has always been bailouts for big business in American history and the unemployed in the US are the worse off since the Depression. You sould like a Tea Party member. In the 60s and 70s, America had a welfare state and it doesn't anymore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 thehistorian


    I think it's hard to deny that the US won the Cold War. In the 1990s, the US came to dominate the world, while the Russian economy collapsed and their influence drained away. The economic turmoil in Russia and the other Soviet republics in the 1990s testify to that. Many ex-Soviet republics are still very poor now, even if Russia has more than recovered.

    The interesting point though is that while the US has easily been the most dominant country in the world over the last two decades, its relative economic power has continued to decline as a result of the rise of developing countries. Over the last few years, with the rise of powers such as China and Brazil, the world is increasingly coming into a Cold War style situation - during the Cold War countries the USA and USSR competed with each other for power and influence in countries around the globe. Now, countries can increasingly turn to China or Brazil if they need economic support - they compete with the US like the USSR used to.

    In terms of which has changed more, I would have to say Russia. It went from an economic collapse and instability to a strengthening economy and a return to an authoritarianism under Putin not seen in the country since the early 1980s. Fortunately for the US, its system helps to ensure that it is nowhere near as unstable.
    When Putin finishes his terms in office, who knows what will happen in Russia? We can at least sure that the US will have a stable hand over of power in 2016..


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