VIGIL FOR SAVITA - SLIGO SAT 17th

wizardmorgan

hello all we are organising a vigil for Savita at the top of o connell st opposite the post office at 4.00 pm sligo sat the 17th coming,all are welcome and please spread the word ...this is a link to the facebook page please share and invite https://www.facebook.com/events/261988813924324/

shellyriver

Why are you holding a vigil?

This is a medical issue which has to be investigated?

You have read the Constitution? You have heard of the X-case? You have heard of the Medical Council? Please do not allow any politicians to have involvement with this emotive issue.

In my opinion this issue has simply being seized by pro-choice lobbyists - I'd imagine those there (I'd guess you will have about 20 present) are women's right activists etc, etc, all paid by the State. I suppose we will have nonsense of Labour party activists there also - knowing the cordial relations between the pleasant Sligo labour representatives that should be fun.

Just because her husband alleges that his late wife was denied an abortion because it is a Catholic country pro-choicer lobby has swung into full force.

Using the death of this Indian lady - who has become the poster girl for pro-choice- is just a sad and tragic exercise.

Gyalist

Her name is Savita. Unless you are trying to get the pro-cannabis crowd to turn up.

red sean

wizardmorgan wrote: »

hello all we are organising a vigil for Savita at the top of o connell st opposite the post office at 4.00 pm sligo sat the 17th coming,all are welcome and please spread the word ...this is a link to the facebook page please share and invite https://www.facebook.com/events/261988813924324/

What's the reason?

SprostonGreen

red sean wrote: »

What's the reason?

Grief junkies get a day out.

wizardmorgan

The vigil is being held in respect and rememberance of Savita Halappanavar's life and to create awareness surrounding the lack of legislation in regard to abortion in this country..

red sean

Is this a pro-abortion gathering by another name?

8_Ace

While this is indeed a tragedy, it's ultimately a medical negligence case. Why a group of people who didn't know the woman feel the need to celebrate her life is beyond me.

wizardmorgan

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/i-will-fight-till-ireland-changes-its-abortion-law/article4099135.ece

Mint Sauce

shellyriver wrote: »

Why are you holding a vigil?

This is a medical issue which has to be investigated?

You have read the Constitution? You have heard of the X-case? You have heard of the Medical Council? Please do not allow any politicians to have involvement with this emotive issue.

In my opinion this issue has simply being seized by pro-choice lobbyists - I'd imagine those there (I'd guess you will have about 20 present) are women's right activists etc, etc, all paid by the State. I suppose we will have nonsense of Labour party activists there also - knowing the cordial relations between the pleasant Sligo labour representatives that should be fun.

Just because her husband alleges that his late wife was denied an abortion because it is a Catholic country pro-choicer lobby has swung into full force.

Using the death of this Indian lady - who has become the poster girl for pro-choice- is just a sad and tragic exercise.

Whilst I agree that it is a medical issue, it has also brought up again a huge moral and ethical issue that has been dragged out since the X-Case. Its also very sad that it has taken the death of a none national for it to be brought to the attention of some. As for the Labour represetitives, some of our local Labour councilors have already made their voices heard on this.

red sean

I do'nt think India or any other nation should have any interference in the legislation of Ireland.
India has a pretty poor health record of it's own to sort out.
This sad case, as already outlined by others, appears more a medical negligence issue.
We must wait for all inquiry findings before passing judgement on what, if anything, needs changing.

Ghost Buster

red sean wrote: »

I do'nt think India or any other nation should have any interference in the legislation of Ireland.
India has a pretty poor health record of it's own to sort out.
This sad case, as already outlined by others, appears more a medical negligence issue.
We must wait for all inquiry findings before passing judgement on what, if anything, needs changing.

On nation already does. Its called The Vatican

shellyriver

Ghost Buster wrote: »

On nation already does. Its called The Vatican

Actually, not being pedantic, but 'on nation' is a city and principality!

Ghost Buster

shellyriver wrote: »

Actually, not being pedantic, but 'on nation' is a city and principality!

Not being pedantic but regardless of what goal posts get moved as the international status of that place they have no more right to meddle in the running of a secular state than India.
Not being pedantic perhaps but being a grammar nazi!
I meant 'one nation' You win the internet!

red sean

wizardmorgan wrote: »

The vigil is being held in respect and rememberance of Savita Halappanavar's life and to create awareness surrounding the lack of legislation in regard to abortion in this country..

Ah! So it's about anti-catholicism rather in rememberance of this unfortunate lady.
Remember the majority of people in this country are Roman Catholics, and if their vote in a democratic referendum is decided by the teachings of that church, then they're entitled to that. It's called democracy.
Same as Hindu's etc. would vote according to their teachings, and are equally entitled to.

Ghost Buster

wizardmorgan wrote: »

The vigil is being held in respect and rememberance of Savita Halappanavar's life and to create awareness surrounding the lack of legislation in regard to abortion in this country..

You get from this.......

red sean wrote: »

Ah! So it's about anti-catholicism rather in rememberance of this unfortunate lady.
Remember the majority of people in this country are Roman Catholics, and if their vote in a democratic referendum is decided by the teachings of that church, then they're entitled to that. It's called democracy.
Same as Hindu's etc. would vote according to their teachings, and are equally entitled to.

to this????
Thats a leap!
You also have a poor understanding of how democracy in an officially secular country should operate.
Can you explain to me exactly how the post in question is anti catholic?

red sean

On nation already does. Its called The Vatican

Your own quote answers your question!

cassi

red sean wrote: »

Ah! So it's about anti-catholicism rather in rememberance of this unfortunate lady.
Remember the majority of people in this country are Roman Catholics, and if their vote in a democratic referendum is decided by the teachings of that church, then they're entitled to that. It's called democracy.
Same as Hindu's etc. would vote according to their teachings, and are equally entitled to.

Wait! What?

How is raising awareness on the issue suddenly anti catholic??

Catholic or not the law is very shady. Ireland has also changed a lot since the last referendum on abortion and I feel it should be put to the people to vote on again.

The poor woman suffered needlessly for days before she died. It's a disgrace and does nothing for the image of Ireland abroad.

Ghost Buster

red sean wrote: »

Your own quote answers your question!

I didnt ask a question

red sean

Ghost Buster wrote: »

You get from this.......

to this????
Thats a leap!
You also have a poor understanding of how democracy in an officially secular country should operate.
Can you explain to me exactly how the post in question is anti catholic?

I think thats a question!

wizardmorgan

where is the argument here,a woman died because of bad legislation...we need to relegislate so no more womens lifes are lost..its that simple ..surely as humanbeings we can agree on this

Ghost Buster

red sean wrote: »

I think thats a question!

See. Its easier when you use the quote function correctly.
So a post demanding that a Govt enact, after 20 years, legistlation advised by a supreme court is anti catholic because The Vatican State feels that, like India it can meddle in a secular states affairs.
Please explain

Ghost Buster

wizardmorgan wrote: »

where is the argument here,a woman died because of bad legislation...we need to relegislate so no more womens lifes are lost..its that simple ..surely as humanbeings we can agree on this

Apparently its anti catholic

Ghost Buster

wizardmorgan wrote: »

The vigil is being held in respect and rememberance of Savita Halappanavar's life and to create awareness surrounding the lack of legislation in regard to abortion in this country..

red sean wrote: »

Ah! So it's about anti-catholicism rather in rememberance of this unfortunate lady.
Remember the majority of people in this country are Roman Catholics, and if their vote in a democratic referendum is decided by the teachings of that church, then they're entitled to that. It's called democracy.
Same as Hindu's etc. would vote according to their teachings, and are equally entitled to.

Red sean:
See the bit in bold?
can you explain to me, without reference to anything outside of the post, exactly how it suggests that the vigil will be anti catholic?

wizardmorgan

maybe a bit of humour is in order http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk part 2 http://www.anyclip.com/movies/the-meaning-of-life/every-sperm-is-sacred-the-protestant/#!music/ and how ever you percieve this to be,no anti catholic sentiment is meant

Knight who says Meh

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Red sean:
See the bit in bold?
can you explain to me, without reference to anything outside of the post, exactly how it suggests that the vigil will be anti catholic?

(1) Special pleading
(2) If youre not wid us youre agin' us....

red sean

Ghostbuster,
The Vatican did not meddle in our legislation. The members of Christian church whose HQ is the Vatican voted, probably according to their religious beliefs, which they're entitled to.

Wizardmorgan,
For starters at the moment we do not know the exact circumstances of this lady's unfortunate death. We are depending on the media and her families responses. We should wait for the full details before getting involved and blaming anyone or anything.
Too many bandwagon jumpers with their own agendas tend to hijack moments like this.

Knight who says Meh

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Red sean:
See the bit in bold?
can you explain to me, without reference to anything outside of the post, exactly how it suggests that the vigil will be anti catholic?

red sean wrote: »

Ghostbuster,
The Vatican did not meddle in our legislation. The members of Christian church whose HQ is the Vatican voted, probably according to their religious beliefs, which they're entitled to.

Wizardmorgan,
For starters at the moment we do not know the exact circumstances of this lady's unfortunate death. We are depending on the media and her families responses. We should wait for the full details before getting involved and blaming anyone or anything.
Too many bandwagon jumpers with their own agendas tend to hijack moments like this.

I also an interested in how the post in bold is anti catholic. Your reply did not address it.
Any chance?




Quite some time later.........

.......
.....
I guess not

red sean

The post in bold which was posted by Wizardmorgan was to highlight what that poster said was the main reason for this gathering.

This post by Ghostbuster puts a different slant on it:

Ghost Buster wrote: »

On nation already does. Its called The Vatican

Knight who says Meh

red sean wrote: »

The post in bold which was posted by Wizardmorgan was to highlight what that poster said was the main reason for this gathering.

This post by Ghostbuster puts a different slant on it:

No no no. Nice try but no. Ghost Busters post is aside from Wizardmorgans. You refered directly to Wizardmorgans post as evidence that the vigil is anti catholic
WHAT IN WIZARDMORGANS POST IS ANTI CATHOLIC??????

red sean

If I made a mistake then I made a mistake! No need to shout!
Internet etiquette etc.
If you read the whole thread you'll see where I stand on this.
Until we have full facts there is no need for all this so-called concern.
If it was medical negligence then no leglislation would prevent the terrible event.
But we need to wait and see if that was the case.

And as far as India demanding our laws be changed, the term people in glasshouses etc. springs to mind.
They're record on health, workers entitlements, general human rights etc. leave a lot be desired.
How many Savitas die there every day of the week from easily cured ailments?

Bebo stunnah

wizardmorgan wrote: »

a woman died because of bad legislation...

Which the people of Ireland voted for. Now everyone is up in arms about it. What is it with this country?

red sean

Maybe The Hindu as linked in post #9 would be better addressing itself to this link from Human Rights Watch:
http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/07/12/india-target-driven-sterilization-harming-women

And how any Indian Govt. Minister can "demand" we change our laws is beyond me!

All this public grief is fine and I'm sure well intended by most, but is totally unnecessary for any reason other than making someone feel good about themselves after. Or for bandwagon jumping!

warriorpoet

Have to say I'm a bit sad reading the thread...... hard to believe how people can be so totally opposed to each others views in the complete absence of any facts. It seems a bit like people are forgetting the tragedy of this young woman's death..

I'm not criticizing any of the posts as such (tho some seem a bit extreme!), but it just seems all a bit... disrespectful or something?

For what it's worth, it seems to me to be unhelpful and too soon to start blaming anyone for Savita's death, and quite distasteful that any attempt might be made to use it to support any cause, be that either "pro-life" or "pro-choice"........

I'll leave it at that.

warriorpoet

wizardmorgan wrote: »

where is the argument here,a woman died because of bad legislation...we need to relegislate so no more womens lifes are lost..its that simple ..surely as humanbeings we can agree on this

I agree that we have to legislate.... that has already been established by the original X case ruling by our courts, and legislation should follow...

HOWEVER.... it is a bit of a leap to suggest that Savita "died because of bad legislation.." Truth is, neither you, nor I nor anybody else knows at the moment why she died, and whether the legislation that has been so long delayed would have changed the medical intervention, treatment, and outcome.

blackiebest1

What is clear to me is that this lady should be alive and working as a dentist. Granted this is based on what the media have been reported. It is shocking that this could occur in Ireland in 2012. It makes me ashamed and I have been afraid to think out my reaction if it were my wife.

I hope to be outside the post office tomorrow, with my wife and daughter, candle in hand to lament this terrible shameful death of a stunning young woman.

My mind boggles at the inability of so many to see the true tragedy in all of this, the reinforcement of a twisted belief that Ireland is a stagnant inward thinking place with stunted people!

fillefatale

SprostonGreen wrote: »

Grief junkies get a day out.

I'm going to have to warn you against any further posting of this nature. Extremely disrespectful comment to make in this context.

blackiebest1

Will sadly be unable to attend the vigil due to work commitments! I will be there in spirit though, today I will paddle the beautiful Lough Gill and remember Savita as we go!

I pray that when my daughter turns 18 in 10 years from now that she will live under a political system which we as a society can be proud of. Today I feel that we are much further away from 'civilized' than I would like!

Shame on Éire to allow circumstances exist that result in a the needless death of a talented young woman with her whole life ahead of her!

shellyriver

blackiebest1 wrote: »

Will sadly be unable to attend the vigil due to work commitments! I will be there in spirit though, today I will paddle the beautiful Lough Gill and remember Savita as we go!

I pray that when my daughter turns 18 in 10 years from now that she will live under a political system which we as a society can be proud of. Today I feel that we are much further away from 'civilized' than I would like!

Shame on Éire to allow circumstances exist that result in a the needless death of a talented young woman with her whole life ahead of her!

Wow - Shame on Eire etc! That sense of national inferiority must be a heavy burden to bear!

Paragon India - that allows on demand abortion if the fetus is handicapped in any way or if the girl is indeed under 18 years.

With 11 million abortions a year, its wonderful caste system, dire poverty and its nuclear arsenal - India has a shameful disregard for human life.

There are many wonderful things about India and its culture, however, its abortion regime is hardly any to aspire to.

We have many things to be embarrassed about in this State - but this vigil is just another one to add to the list. In the main these vigils are organised by people involved in organisations like Marie Stopes and the like etc, etc.

This is not a vigil in memory of someone you simply didn't know - its a pro-choice lobby grouping seeking to liberalise Irish abortion laws - shame on you, what callousness.

AllGunsBlazing

blackiebest1 wrote: »

Shame on Éire

Classic "Paddy Irish man" reaction ...shame on us all for everything!

Perhaps you could walk barefoot up a mountain for all our sins?

SprostonGreen

fillefatale wrote: »

I'm going to have to warn you against any further posting of this nature. Extremely disrespectful comment to make in this context.

Disrespectful to whom or to what? Your sensitivities?

shellyriver

SprostonGreen wrote: »

Disrespectful to whom or to what? Your sensitivities?

Now, now - be careful. Subjective sensitivities, rational and/or irrational must always be respected, and placed on a higher value plane, so to ensure sane thoughts and views that subjectively unpalatable can never be aired;) A half page photograph by Irish Times page 1 is a more measured approach.:rolleyes:

wizardmorgan

this vigil was not organised by people that have anything to do with maire stopes,and have not bee paid by any government agency..this vigil was for savita,some members of the indian community came this evening one man in particular from india, spoke of savita he knew her personally, was a friend of the family,and was in the hospital when she died,he thanked us personally for organising this vigil for savita

cassi

We all know India has a dire human rights record but its not about India, its about the Ireland and the lack of human rights shown to this woman, where it should be different.

This woman was denied a procedure that may have saved her life because of what i see as a backward law.

Personally i dont see the shame in pro choice lobbists using this to highlight the need to change the system. Its the perfect example of a woman not having the choice in what happens to her. It wouldnt have affacted you or anyone else in the slightest but a woman might be alive and husband might have his wife again.

A vigil to either remember the woman or highlight the need for change is not an embarrasment.