Do We Really Need Non-Eu Workers?

UCDVet

According to the DJEI there are a bunch of 'strategically important occupations' that are, well, of strategic importance to Ireland. So they make it easier for non-eu immigrants to come and work here.

Do we really need them?

If we *do* need them - we do keep increasing the cost for them to work here? GNIB is increasing the price of their annual cards to 300 euro and a 2-year green card costs 1000 euro.

That works out to 66 euro per month.

If these positions are truly important - why aren't we encouraging qualified applicants? Keep in mind, even aside from the registration fees, these people will pay all the same taxes as Irish workers while being ineligible for many of the benefits.

If we *don't* need them - why do we allow them here at all? Surely there are plenty of unemployed folk who can already work here legally. Shouldn't we care more about the people that are already here than someone who isn't?

9959

What do you mean by "do we really need them", are you an employer?

phasers

I dunno

Shryke

I'm sick of seeing your trolling everywhere OP and I don't know how anyone is still humouring you. Piss off and read up on what being part of the international community entails in full. Mostly, just piss off.

Pottler

I for one am eternally grateful for the influx of Sechuan Chefs, almost every saturday evening. Mmmm.

admiralofthefleet

yes. they have much better manners than 99% of Irish workers

Chuck Stone

For non and semi-skilled jobs?

Not really.

There's more than enough competition for jobs at the 'lower' end.

The King of Moo

I'd imagine so OP. Otherwise, why would the government allow non-Eu nationals to come for these jobs, if they could fill them more easily with EU citizens?

Also: the government seems to be trying to encourage Irish schoolkids to do better in the subjects relevant to these positions, so they clearly are trying to see that, in the long term, as many of these positions as possible are filled from here.

jam_mac_jam

No, lets just send them back? whats your point exactly?

petersburg2002

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

yes. they have much better manners than 99% of Irish workers

Have to agree. Was staying in a hotel in Dublin 4 while attending a conference. Most of the staff were non-EU nationals. Very polite and excellent standard of service from every one if them.

UCDVet

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No, lets just send them back? whats your point exactly?

My point is, if we need them, why are we increasing the price of GNIB cards by 100% and charging 1000 euro for a work permit?

Ellis Dee

Provided they actually live up to their name and work, we need non-EU workers a hell of a lot more than we need all the Irish dossers here who wouldn't work in a fit.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

UCDVet

Chuck Stone wrote: »

For non and semi-skilled jobs?

Not really.

There's more than enough competition for jobs at the 'lower' end.

Nah - these are skilled jobs in areas the government has deemed important.
I think the full list is at the end of this .PDF

UCDVet

Shryke wrote: »

I'm sick of seeing your trolling everywhere OP and I don't know how anyone is still humouring you. Piss off and read up on what being part of the international community entails in full. Mostly, just piss off.

You have an interesting definition of trolling.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=31&Lang=1

From the 19th November 2012 a fee for this card is €300

That's a 100% increase from the previous amount, starting on Monday. It seems pretty relevant a topic to me.

But yeah, *I'm trolling* and you're just being a good fella telling people to piss off....:rolleyes:

P.S. There is an Ignore feature supported on boards.ie - I'd kindly invite you to ignore me and the other trolls you can't stand (just click my name and 'Add UCDVet to Ignore List). Life's too short and I certainly don't want to ruin your online fun Cheers

Pumpkinseeds

I'm guessing those positions are the ones that are dirty, thankless and badly paid jobs that none of us want to do. what about making our n'er do well lazy gobsh*te skangers, who have no intention of ever doing an honest days work those positions? Hell it might make em think twice about breeding if they had to do a crappy job in order to get the Rent allowance/Council house.

Shryke

UCDVet wrote: »

You have an interesting definition of trolling.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=31&Lang=1


That's a 100% increase from the previous amount, starting on Monday. It seems pretty relevant a topic to me.

But yeah, *I'm trolling* and you're just being a good fella telling people to piss off....:rolleyes:

You are a troll. I've seen you in other threads trolololing. The increase might be a topic. Not "Do we need de foregners". That's trolling. TROOOOOOL.

admiralofthefleet

petersburg2002 wrote: »

Have to agree. Was staying in a hotel in Dublin 4 while attending a conference. Most of the staff were non-EU nationals. Very polite and excellent standard of service from every one if them.

was in heatons in tralee a while ago. i asked a girl (irish and local) where something was. her reply was a shrug of the shoulders.
upstairs in the sports dept. i asked a girl (eastern european) where something was. her reply was 'let me show you'. she then brought me down to what i was looking for, and while i was browsing she played with my son; making him very happy

Lumbo

I interviewed 5 people yesterday. One applicant was a waste of time and I think he only wanted to be interviewed so they could continue to get the dole. That was the Irish applicant.

The rest of the applicants were great, very enthusiastic and had prepared for the interview. None of them were from the EU.

mikemac1

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I'm guessing those positions are the ones that are dirty, thankless and badly paid jobs that none of us want to do. what about making our n'er do well lazy gobsh*te skangers, who have no intention of ever doing an honest days work those positions? Hell it might make em think twice about breeding if they had to do a crappy job in order to get the Rent allowance/Council house.

That has nothing to do with it

The OP is talking about highly skilled positions where the employer has to demonstrate they can't get an EU employee before they can get someone else in on a work permit.
And even then there is a list of jobs that you have to check

Nobody is talking about badly paid jobs.

These are top jobs, like knowledge in American law or Japanese finance or international sales.

Work permits are available for occupations with an annual salary of €30,000 or more.
Work permits for jobs with an annual salary below €30,000 will only be considered in exceptional cases
Work permits will not be considered for occupations listed as ineligible for work permits -

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/migrant_workers/employment_permits/work_permits.html

UCDVet

Shryke wrote: »

You are a troll. I've seen you in other threads trolololing. The increase might be a topic. Not "Do we need de foregners". That's trolling. TROOOOOOL.

If you think everyone in Ireland agrees on whether or not we should hire Non-Eu workers; I think you're closer to trolling than I am....

Anyway, I was trying to illustrate what I viewed as a contradiction and see what other people felt on the matter. If we do benefit from non-eu workers filling positions in these strategically important jobs - aren't we shooting ourselves in the foot by increasing fees and making it difficult for people to do so?

Or, if we don't benefit from non-eu workers, aren't we also making a huge mistake of letting them work here at all? It's cheaper to hire an Irish guy than to hire a Canadian and pay the Irish guy's dole - even with these fees.

Nodin

UCDVet wrote: »

If you think everyone in Ireland agrees on whether or not we should hire Non-Eu workers; I think you're closer to trolling than I am....

Anyway, I was trying to illustrate what I viewed as a contradiction and see what other people felt on the matter. If we do benefit from non-eu workers filling positions in these strategically important jobs - aren't we shooting ourselves in the foot by increasing fees and making it difficult for people to do so?

Or, if we don't benefit from non-eu workers, aren't we also making a huge mistake of letting them work here at all? It's cheaper to hire an Irish guy than to hire a Canadian and pay the Irish guy's dole - even with these fees.

"we"? You were saying you were a non-Irish non-EU national if I recall.

charlemont

We have half a billion people in the E.U, So I don't think we need too many non-EU workers. Well I can understand having Asians working in a in a Chinese restaurant etc but with unemployment at 24 percent in Spain etc We should be looking after our own fellow EU citizens when it comes to work.

Mr Trade In

Who would you rather serve you your burger in Burger King, Dr. Ragesh a Neurosurgeon from the mean streets of Bombai, or Mercedes Brennan the single mother junkie from Dublin.

UCDVet

Nodin wrote: »

"we"? You were saying you were a non-Irish non-EU national if I recall.

You're right. My apologies if that came across wrong.

I'm not Irish
I'm not from the EU

But I did use the word 'we'. As a legal resident/worker of Ireland I feel like I'm impacted more by the policies and general well being of Ireland than I am of any other country.

HavingCrack

I think people are getting mixed up between EU and non EU workers here, Polish/Lithuanian etc. are all EU citizens and don't need work permits.

squod

Lumbo wrote: »

I interviewed 5 people yesterday. One applicant was a waste of time and I think he only wanted to be interviewed so they could continue to get the dole. That was the Irish applicant.

The rest of the applicants were great, very enthusiastic and had prepared for the interview. None of them were from the EU.

I interviewed ten people last month. The Irish applicants were more suited, had better dress sense and more experience. So there!

flazio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AziJW9p2amM

SEPT 23 1989

Yes

Those happy ending massages wont do themselves

shrewd

if they have the necessary skills, knowledge and experience. i don't see why we should deny them a position because they are non-eu.

take note that Australians, Americans, Africans, South-americans, Canadians and Asians are non-EU.

i also found that they are need for business reasons as well, for example, a company willing to expand to the Middle-east market might employ a business analyst who is middle-eastern and experienced with that type of market to help build their bridge to such market

Madam_X

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

was in heatons in tralee a while ago. i asked a girl (irish and local) where something was. her reply was a shrug of the shoulders.
upstairs in the sports dept. i asked a girl (eastern european) where something was. her reply was 'let me show you'. she then brought me down to what i was looking for, and while i was browsing she played with my son; making him very happy

Two incidents? Ah well now that's pretty conclusive stuff. Definitely means non EU workers dealing with the public are more polite than "99 per cent" of Irish ones.

I dont have a problem with non EU workers, just hyperbole.

Big Bottom

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

was in heatons in tralee a while ago. i asked a girl (irish and local) where something was. her reply was a shrug of the shoulders.
upstairs in the sports dept. i asked a girl (eastern european) where something was. her reply was 'let me show you'. she then brought me down to what i was looking for, and while i was browsing she played with my son; making him very happy

We should keep the Eastern European girl and ship that ignorant Irish one out!

That would be a right turn out wouldnt it?!

Furious_George

Shryke wrote: »

I'm sick of seeing your trolling everywhere OP and I don't know how anyone is still humouring you. Piss off and read up on what being part of the international community entails in full. Mostly, just piss off.

I didnt look at who the OP was but as soon as i read ur post i knew it was ucdvet :-). Even had a little bet with myself b4 scrolled bk up on phone. Super-troll

UCDVet

Furious_George wrote: »

I didnt look at who the OP was but as soon as i read ur post i knew it was ucdvet :-). Even had a little bet with myself b4 scrolled bk up on phone. Super-troll

You pay so little attention to names you read through the thread title, clicked the thread, read the first post and didn't think 'Gee - obvious troll, I wonder who it was?', kept reading, found someone calling the OP a troll

THEN you made a bet with yourself that it was UCDVet - because, in the past, you've read posts you feel are trolling and decided to commit the poster to memory....but that list is small enough that you were able to connect 'troll' and 'UCDVet'?

Are you saying I'm the only troll on Boards.ie?

Anyway, it all sounds very unlikely, but thank you for sharing your story. I'm glad I could help you win your bet.

The King of Moo

Mr Trade In wrote: »

Who would you rather serve you your burger in Burger King, Dr. Ragesh a Neurosurgeon from the mean streets of Bombai, or Mercedes Brennan the single mother junkie from Dublin.

Neither. I'd prefer Mr. False Dichotomy from Cloud Cuckoo Land.

3ndahalfof6

They are here, they are working (sometimes in shiiit conditions) yep we do need them because most of the work they do is beneath the Irish, "I get more on the dole so why work for a few more pennies",

someone has to fill the vacuum, the jobs our parents and grandparents were glad to do, to make ends meat, (for the young who don't know the history, it was to feed the family).

oldyouth

Never had a bad experience doing business with what is called a 'non-national'. I certainly can't say the same with a fellow Irish born counterpart. I would employ a Polish, Lithuanian, Slovakian, Malaysian or Indian person in a heartbeat

Furious_George

UCDVet wrote: »

You pay so little attention to names you read through the thread title, clicked the thread, read the first post and didn't think 'Gee - obvious troll, I wonder who it was?', kept reading, found someone calling the OP a troll

THEN you made a bet with yourself that it was UCDVet - because, in the past, you've read posts you feel are trolling and decided to commit the poster to memory....but that list is small enough that you were able to connect 'troll' and 'UCDVet'?

Are you saying I'm the only troll on Boards.ie?

Anyway, it all sounds very unlikely, but thank you for sharing your story. I'm glad I could help you win your bet.

Actually pretty much yeah except i didnt think oh obvious troll i thought what a ridiculous point of view. Then when the other poster commented i had an aha moment and the penny dropped because ya always catch me.

The bus seats thread was almost a work of art...this one not as good but keep trying :-).

cournioni

They most likely have language skills, where it is more than likely that we don't.

HavingCrack

oldyouth wrote: »

Never had a bad experience doing business with what is called a 'non-national'. I certainly can't say the same with a fellow Irish born counterpart. I would employ a Polish, Lithuanian, Slovakian, Malaysian or Indian person in a heartbeat

Polish, Lithuanian and Slovakian are all EU nationals, the thread title refers to non-EU workers.

Linvia

sigh......