Is vegetarian food becoming more difficult to find in Ireland ?

SilverLiningOK

From discussion on shortage of supply of Quorn in Dublin, I decided to start this separate topic. It does deserve some further talking about.

As previously mentioned on that thread, people are noticing a reduction or withdrawal of Quorn products from some of the main supermarket chains. It's not something that I know about as I rarely good near the major supermarkets. I am in a minority in that respect but it's how my shopping/eating habits have developed over time. I would be interested in how others are finding things on the ground.

Vegetarian food is seen as something of limited interest by the main supermarket chains, especially in Ireland. Why is this reduction of choice happening ? Well firstly compared to the UK, our population is quite small. So the number of vegetarians are even fewer. As many of you have probably experienced, getting vegetarian food outside the larger urban centres can be sometimes difficult. Supermarkets also value shelf space by sales and may want to replace the vegetarian stuff with faster moving products.

Keeping away from supermarkets altogether might be a smart move. Learning to cook decent meal using basic wholefood ingredients and making the most of fridge and freezer by cooking additional portions. A quick and easy alternative to meat may not be the answer. Going from a meat centred Western diet to a vegetarian version of the same thing may not be that wise. It means lots of processed food, lots of added fat and sugar. Simply lots of everything except fruits, vegetables and whole grains.

It is important for vegetarians to be able to fend for themselves without over relying on industrialised food. I don't mean to sound preachy but I believe this to be important.

Of late Dublin has definitely shrunk a little for vegetarians. With the closure of Juice and the more recent shutting down of Fresh, the selection of vegetarian eateries has dramatically reduced. What's left ? Cornucopia, Govindas and some other places with varying vegetarian options. To live as a vegetarian in Dublin, you have to inventive. With less places to eat out and now, as reported here, less offering from mainstream shops, it's time learn how to survive. Yes, there are foodstuffs from health shops and places such as the Dublin Food Co-op but sometimes, as pointed out, these can be expensive.

Slaphead07

Given that "vegetarian food" is everything that isn't meat, fish or poultry the answer is clearly NO.

Slaphead07

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

I don't mean to sound preachy but I believe this to be important.

Well you do sound very preachy and not content with telling us what we should eat you now tell us where not to shop. You back this up with completely unrelated information about restaurants closing as if there's some conspiracy against vegetarians. You conveiniently neglect to mention the many new restaurants that cater very well for vegetarians.

I've been a vegetarian in Dublin for over 3 decades now and I can assure you it's an awful lot better than the days where breakfast 'out' would have been eggs on toast or, if vegan, toast.

SilverLiningOK

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Well you do sound very preachy and not content with telling us what we should eat you now tell us where not to shop. You back this up with completely unrelated information about restaurants closing as if there's some conspiracy against vegetarians. You conveiniently neglect to mention the many new restaurants that cater very well for vegetarians.

I've been a vegetarian in Dublin for over 3 decades now and I can assure you it's an awful lot better than the days where breakfast 'out' would have been eggs on toast or, if vegan, toast.

Where are these new restaurants ? I certainly haven't found too many. Yes there are a few but no new ones just doing vegetarian food.

I don't intend to sound preachy at all. I am trying to highlight the benefits of reducing dependence on industrialised food. I know that there is no real conspiracy against vegetarians but options have certainly reduced. It is still not widely understood as a dietary choice in Ireland. I know that it is much better than in the past.

I rarely depend on places to cater for me but if they do it's a nice surprise. Having a plan B is always a good idea such as some emergency food on hand. Eating out with others may not always be about the food but the social side. Eating what ever vegetarian options are available sometimes has to do but not depending on the situation to provide dinner/lunch.

Eriopis

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

Where are these new restaurants ? I certainly haven't found too many. Yes there are a few but no new ones just doing vegetarian food.

I don't intend to sound preachy at all. I am trying to highlight the benefits of reducing dependence on industrialised food. I know that there is no real conspiracy against vegetarians but options have certainly reduced. It is still not widely understood as a dietary choice in Ireland. I know that it is much better than in the past.

I rarely depend on places to cater for me but if they do it's a nice surprise. Having a plan B is always a good idea such as some emergency food on hand. Eating out with others may not always be about the food but the social side. Eating what ever vegetarian options are available sometimes has to do but not depending on the situation to provide dinner/lunch.

You may not intend to sound preachy, but you certainly do look it from this side of the screen.
You make it sound like we all a) don't know how to cook from scratch (we do!)
b) are fully reliant on "industrialised food", while you seem to be obviously unaware than the "industrialised food" you refer to is not actually made of factory-floor scrapings, but actually the same ingredients you and we otherwise use in "from scratch" cooking, just pre-prepared, for convenience on the odd night where coming in late from work someone might need to grab something quickly from the freezer, not as a general rule. Have a look at the vegetarian dinner thread in this forum, the vast majority of food there is home-cooked and healthy.
c) that other vegans and vegetarians are not clever enough to plan ahead and e.g. take a plan B with them, I'm pretty sure we all do that; you're kind of preaching to the choir here.

Also, on a last note, advising people to stop using supermarkets is counter-productive. Since supply is demand-driven, using the supermarkets less will actually exacerbate the situation, leading to even less vegan or vegetarian products being offered. I'd love to see the day when nutritional yeast and vital wheat gluten were readily available in Tesco's, frankly.

Slaphead07

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

Where are these new restaurants ? I certainly haven't found too many. Yes there are a few but no new ones just doing vegetarian food.

Again you miss the point so as to argue... What I said was

You conveiniently neglect to mention the many new restaurants that cater very well for vegetarians.

Apart from Fade St, Salamanca, Aobaba on Capel street (as praised on this very forum) and many more what have the restaurants ever done for us? I've recently eaten in Thortons, The Residence and L'Ecrivian - all top end restaurants and all with separate vegetarian menus. If I'm stuck for breakfast in town I have Cornupoia, Wuff, The Larder or The Pepperpot Cafe. I'm sure there's more.
Yes we would all like more 100% vegeatrian or vegan restaurants but I'd have to assume that there isn't a big enough market or someone would open one. For now we're not doing too bad though.

Tar.Aldarion

There is FAR more veggie food than there used to be. More options, more mainstream. Not more veggie restaurants because there is not enough demand. But in a lot of shops/restaurants there is just more veggie stuff available in general. I've just booked a meal at the farm restaurant. 6 veggie mains, did I feck get anywhere like that in the old days. A lot of places have wholly vegetarian menus like slaphead said. There are also more foreign cuisine restaurants which tend to have vegetarian dishes.


I get the idea from your posts that you don't think people that use meat substitutes can cook without them? They certainly can, people eat them because they taste nice. They are not necessary, it's not like you have them at every meal like a lot of people do with meat! It's not like you see restaurants even using the stuff.

schemingbohemia

As an oul'fella I remember when virtually the only vegetarian item in supermarkets here was "beanfeast"!

Things are so much better now, as Slaphead says even the top end restaurants now cater for vegetarians, another example being Pearl Brasserie.

I think you're extrapolating way too much from a reduction in quorn supplies in some supermarkets.

Slaphead07

schemingbohemia wrote: »

As an oul'fella I remember when virtually the only vegetarian item in supermarkets here was "beanfeast"!

Oh God yeah... and we were glad of it! (poor but happy etc.) There were "Hera" products in health food stores too. All much the same but it was ok.

SilverLiningOK

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Again you miss the point so as to argue... What I said was


Apart from Fade St, Salamanca, Aobaba on Capel street (as praised on this very forum) and many more what have the restaurants ever done for us? I've recently eaten in Thortons, The Residence and L'Ecrivian - all top end restaurants and all with separate vegetarian menus. If I'm stuck for breakfast in town I have Cornupoia, Wuff, The Larder or The Pepperpot Cafe. I'm sure there's more.
Yes we would all like more 100% vegeatrian or vegan restaurants but I'd have to assume that there isn't a big enough market or someone would open one. For now we're not doing too bad though.

You move in very different social circles than I do. I wouldn't consider going near these top end restaurants. From looking at their vegetarian options/menus previously, I see that the food usually involves way too much dairy. That again would match the abundant use of butter, cream and cheese in the non vegetarian offerings. They may have nice surrounding and will cost a bit but vegetarian will again have to make do. The portions are very often very stingy as well.

I really like Cafe Paradiso in Cork and go there about once a year. Again here there is an over use of dairy products with the only vegan options usually being tofu. The particular tofu dish in question is the only way I cook tofu now on the rare occasion. I still like eating there but have to prepare by abstaining from dairy for some time in advance.

Yes, I do agree with you on that there are many more choices for the vegetarian today. The concept of vegetarianism seems to be not much cherished by catering college trained chefs. There is some underlying philosophy at work here. They seem to think that vegetarians don't like food and treat them accordingly. There are much welcome exceptions to this and that's good. Catering for vegetarian can vary widely on quality content.

On breakfasts, eggs still feature strongly. It's a long time since I had more than a cup of coffee in the morning out and about. I prefer to eat at home or bring something with me.

Slaphead07

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

You move in very different social circles than I do. I wouldn't consider going near these top end restaurants. From looking at their vegetarian options/menus previously, I see that the food usually involves way too much dairy. That again would match the abundant use of butter, cream and cheese in the non vegetarian offerings. They may have nice surrounding and will cost a bit but vegetarian will again have to make do. The portions are very often very stingy as well.

You're really struggling for things to complain about. I wouldn't be a regular in any of those btw but an occasionaly treat is deserved.

I love Cafe Paradiso as well but again, time constraints mean it's an annual trip - I HIGHLY recommend visiting their suppliers Gort na Nain near Kinsale as well. You can do a two night two dinner deal staying overnight in each place which is really good value. http://www.gortnanain.com/

schemingbohemia

schemingbohemia wrote: »

another example being Pearl Brasserie.

Have you been? I would to try them out.

We have never had a better range of food stuff available to us on this island.
Go back 15 years, and try find yourself something simple like a pomegranate, asparagus or feta.
These are utterly standard now, even in the back end of nowhere.

I think places like Juice, are actually a victim of us having a better selection of choices.
I know I rarely frequent the veggie only places in Dublin anymore.

Slaphead07

Moonbaby wrote: »

I think places like Juice, are actually a victim of us having a better selection of choices.

Also the staff were obnoxious.

strandroad

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Also the staff were obnoxious.

I don't know, I had a great an attentive waiter the only time I was there - because their lunch was good value, but evenings were way overpriced.

Slaphead07

mhge wrote: »

I don't know, I had a great an attentive waiter the only time I was there - because their lunch was good value, but evenings were way overpriced.

Well I can only go by my own experience. I found them really rude and full of themselves. The food wasn't great either!:D

Humans eh!

Ha !
Try living outside the pale me hearties.

My local supermarket does have a limited quorn selection. But as for eating out forget it. I was recently informed in one restaurant that the vegetarian option was "The Chicken"
Foolishly I said that I don't eat meat and was patronisingly told (as If I had become vegetarian that morning) that -and I quote-
"Chicken isn't meat....its poultry"

Where I live (in Co.Monaghan, which I love btw) saying you are a vegetarian elicits scorn and incomprehension, and most believe that it is done as a sort of attention seeking thing, like I want to hear ignorant opinions and barely veiled sneering every time I fancy a meal. And paying €13 for a plate of dried penne with a scutter of manky tomato sauce is the norm. With added spit/snot/ and semen for being a nuisance to the chef. Of course there are exceptions but they are very rare.
'Escape' in Bray a few years ago was a superb treat. Literally menu's were unnecessary.
Ask the waiter to bring 'anything' from the menu and you were guaranteed deliciousness.
But yeah its hard enough being veggie in Ireland, and in certain rural places it best not to mention it.

Humans eh!

Humans eh! wrote: »

Ha !
Try living outside the pale me hearties.

My local supermarket does have a limited quorn selection. But as for eating out forget it. I was recently informed in one restaurant that the vegetarian option was "The Chicken"
Foolishly I said that I don't eat meat and was patronisingly told (as If I had become vegetarian that morning) that -and I quote-
"Chicken isn't meat....its poultry"

Where I live (in Co.Monaghan, which I love btw) saying you are a vegetarian elicits scorn and incomprehension, and most believe that it is done as a sort of attention seeking thing, like I want to hear ignorant opinions and barely veiled sneering every time I fancy a meal. And paying €13 for a plate of dried penne with a scutter of manky tomato sauce is the norm. With added spit/snot/ and semen for being a nuisance to the chef. Of course there are exceptions but they are very rare.
But yeah its hard enough being veggie in Ireland, and in certain rural places it best not to mention it.

Je suis also une bogger, and I heartily disagree.
I haven't meet an attitude like that from an Irish person in years.

I love eating out. I do it everywhere.
That is just not my experience at all.
Outside of wedding fare, and the shoddiest of pub grub.
Where are you going?

I know that The Nuremore has a dedicated veggie menu up your way.
Nevin Magaires place McNean house and The Olde Poste Inn in Cavan have too.
I haven't eaten in any of those places yet, but I hear good things about them all.

Must give this escape place a go. It sounds great

Can remember rude staff in Juice.
It is ten years since my one and only visit.
I still remember how medicore and overpriced my meal was.

fillefatale

Another culchie here ... we're all familiar with that sunday lunch out with the family. Only the horror that enters your bones as you pull up outside some dated country hotel with a noticeboard announcing the "Carvery" within. You meekly follow your folks in, and as you're seated you ask the waitress if the soup is made with vegetable stock, and you're met with a vacant stare - "I'll ask the chef". Of course, the "homemade" soup is made from a tub, and theres confusion as The Chef has to trouble himself to check the ingredients of the tub, and yes, theres chicken. I'll have the mashed potato and some of those soggy carrots then.

Slaphead07

a recent family celebration in Dundalk was crowned by 3 cremated, but previously frozen, pizzas.

I've found with a bit of homework or local knowledge you can find a decent vegetarian meal almost anywhere in Ireland now.

Shenshen

fillefatale wrote: »

Another culchie here ... we're all familiar with that sunday lunch out with the family. Only the horror that enters your bones as you pull up outside some dated country hotel with a noticeboard announcing the "Carvery" within. You meekly follow your folks in, and as you're seated you ask the waitress if the soup is made with vegetable stock, and you're met with a vacant stare - "I'll ask the chef". Of course, the "homemade" soup is made from a tub, and theres confusion as The Chef has to trouble himself to check the ingredients of the tub, and yes, theres chicken. I'll have the mashed potato and some of those soggy carrots then.

This.
It's one of my main problems about being vegetarian. My husband and me don't often travel abroad, but we do often go for weekend breaks up and down the country.
And we nearly always have the problem of finding dinner... We will usually be walking around the town where we're staying reading menus outside every pub and restaurant we come past. Most of them will have one vegetarian option, if any. And nine times out of ten, that's penne with tomato sauce, for €13.
many of them will not even state what they've got for vegetarians, their menu simply reads "vegetarian option".

We usually try and find an Indian or Italian rather that an Irish restaurant or pub.
It is sad, and it does make me angry, but on the other hand I suspect it's simply down to demand. If hardly anybody ever orders it anyway, why would the restaurant bother?

fillefatale

Shenshen wrote: »

This.
It's one of my main problems about being vegetarian. My husband and me don't often travel abroad, but we do often go for weekend breaks up and down the country.
And we nearly always have the problem of finding dinner... We will usually be walking around the town where we're staying reading menus outside every pub and restaurant we come past. Most of them will have one vegetarian option, if any. And nine times out of ten, that's penne with tomato sauce, for €13.
many of them will not even state what they've got for vegetarians, their menu simply reads "vegetarian option".

We usually try and find an Indian or Italian rather that an Irish restaurant or pub.
It is sad, and it does make me angry, but on the other hand I suspect it's simply down to demand. If hardly anybody ever orders it anyway, why would the restaurant bother?

Give them some credit, some offer more ~exotic options like a stir fry! €12-15, same price as the meat main. /sarcasm

Harveys Point in Donegal offered to make me a stir fry ... it was onions and carrots drowned in a sickly sweet sauce on a bed of rice. I had stomach cramps after ten minutes of attempting to eat it.

I usually do my research before hand/ring ahead, but if its a spur of the moment thing you can't be stubborn and insist on going somewhere to cater for you, the minority. So you end up with unexciting, overcooked veg, for the same price as the meat eaters meal.

Shenshen

fillefatale wrote: »

Give them some credit, some offer more ~exotic options like a stir fry! €12-15, same price as the meat main. /sarcasm

Harveys Point in Donegal offered to make me a stir fry ... it was onions and carrots drowned in a sickly sweet sauce on a bed of rice. I had stomach cramps after ten minutes of attempting to eat it.

I usually do my research before hand/ring ahead, but if its a spur of the moment thing you can't be stubborn and insist on going somewhere to cater for you, the minority. So you end up with unexciting, overcooked veg, for the same price as the meat eaters meal.

We usually try and plan ahead, but when you've got a hotel in Spanish Point in November, there is a limited numer of places to choose from, and not all of their online information is always up to date.

We tend to build our own courses... A starter and some chips, something like that.

fillefatale

Moonbaby wrote: »

Can remember rude staff in Juice.
It is ten years since my one and only visit.
I still remember how medicore and overpriced my meal was.

I went to Juice twice. It was nice having a sit down veggie meal. But the food was totally mediocre. Good concept, the food let it down. It was always quiet when I was in there. Whats there now instead?

two wheels good

OP, I share your concerns about the dominance of supermarkets and the extent of "industrialised food production". So I'm puzzled about your use of Quorn as a kind of vegetarian benchmark. Some have described it is "a high-processed food, concocted in the laboratory of a multi-national corp. trying to exploit the vegetarian market."
(Sorry, off topic I know)

SilverLiningOK

two wheels good wrote: »

OP, I share your concerns about the dominance of supermarkets and the extent of "industrialised food production". So I'm puzzled about your use of Quorn as a kind of vegetarian benchmark. Some have described it is "a high-processed food, concocted in the laboratory of a multi-national corp. trying to exploit the vegetarian market."
(Sorry, off topic I know)

That definition pretty much clinches it. I don't see quorn as a bechmark at all. It fits in with most of the other fake meat products but it a much more recent contender. Just like omnivores it's very possible for vegetarians to eat highly processed foods. Choosing a vegetarian diet can have many motivations and health may not even feature.

My OP question was slightly tongue in cheek in seeing these fake meat products as a choice by many as a substitute for meat. On a practical level, Ireland has no shortage of vegetarian food if one follows a mostly plant based wholefood diet. Turning it into diverse balanced meals involves cooking and much research.

Serendipity99

Can someone let me know if any of the vegetarian-friendly restaurants in Dublin that were mentioned on this discussion thread are also vegan-friendly?

I'm looking to compile a list of vegan-friendly restaurants throughout Ireland and I'm working with Vegan Ireland on this.

Thanks people!

Tar.Aldarion

I'm not sure how many are vegan friendly due to heavy reliance on things like cheese etc. In 'the farm' for instance, tehre was 6 vegetarian mains, one of which was vegan. That was also the most veggie mains I had seen anywhere really.

Serendipity99

That's fine - even if there is only one vegan item on a menu then we are interested in listing the restaurant.

You say 'The Farm' has a vegan option?

Cheers!

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah it's lovely http://www.thefarmfood.ie/a-la-carte-menu/
It's also on their earlybird, 3 courses for 25e.