Getting power to out farm

maryc.

Can anyone help I want to get power to a outfarm, there waspower there around 10+ years ago in the old dwelling house but it wasdisconnected and meter removed (by ESB I presume) I want to get power to runelectric fence, the dwelling house and out houses are now derelict and falling in.

I plan to put upa small cattle shed on farm down the line which would need power for lights and water pump.I also was going to put a mobile home on the site just for shelter in case weget the odd wet day and to have a cup tea instead of leaving the farm

Do i need to put up a shed or house first to get a meter,could i just reroof one old houses and put meter in it they are old stonewalled. What are the costs??

New to this Board so sorry if i posted in wrong place

Victor

Moved from Accommodation & Property

Moderator

2011

This will be like any other electrical installation. Get a registered electrical contractor to wire to your requirements.

The contractor can issue the necessary paperwork to the ESB and organise reconnection of supply.

freddyuk

For an electric fence and some lights or other low powered devices you can easily set up a battery and solar panel to provide sufficient power.
This may be cheaper than paying for a new installation and the standing charge.

2011

freddyuk wrote: »

For an electric fence and some lights or other low powered devices you can easily set up a battery and solar panel to provide sufficient power.

You seem to have missed that the OP also requires power for a water pump and a mobile home. Somehow I do not think the solar panels and battery setup will be finincialy viable for all of this.

freddyuk

Err, no I did not miss the point at all! The OP said they wanted an electric fence now. Then "down the line" maybe put up a cattle shed.......
Lights and a pump are absolutely no problem for a simple solar set up. Also having a caravan for "the odd cup of tea" is not going to be a problem? The OP is not living there as I understand it.
As the power is only being used intermittently then it is ideal for solar.
An electric fence "now" does not warrant paying for a reconnection fee, safety check and ongoing standing charges. You need the fencer anyway so a battery and solar panel/controller is cheaper than reconnecting grid power by a country mile.

Dardania

Yes and no on the cost of reconnection - maybe the cable (expensive bit) is already in?

See page 50 of this: www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/ncp - all elec services should be done independant of the falling down buildings in my opinion

freddyuk

I would bet the cable to an old derelict farm building would be insufficient for a modern house connection. I very much doubt ESB would just connect it up without knowing the load requirement which would be up to modern standards. A new meter would be required etc. etc...
Someone will know but I do not think €250 will cover it?

2 stroke

When considering the financial viability of solar, the setup costs of mains electricty are often overlooked. But as you seem to be starting from scratch with either system, going solar seems to make sense here.
Solar electric fences are already available. For the mobile I would go solar with led lights with gas for teamaking/cooking. Likewise led lighting for cattle sheds. Presuming the water is for cattle, the waterpump would be the biggest draw.Consider a waterstorage tank rather than a huge bank of batteries and perhaps combined wind & solar.

freddyuk

As you will be getting a well pump anyway you could get a DC solar pump which can be run directly off a solar panel and fill a cistern. Depending on the water requirement and depth of the well you will need to work out how big a pump you need. I would still have a battery reserve but all these parts are easily available and need to be connected for best effect in a comprehensive kit. If you have distance to cover then consider using 24volts rather than 12volts which makes wiring much easier and cheaper. LED 12 volt bulbs can be used in standard fittings either bayonet or screw in.

2011

Dardania wrote: »

See page 50 of this: www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/ncp - all elec services should be done independant of the falling down buildings in my opinion

I don't think anyone is suggesting that any of the wiring should be installed in a building that is falling down.

In fact the OP seems to be suggesting fixing up the building first:

could i just reroof one old houses and put meter in it they are old stonewalled.

2011

freddyuk wrote: »

Err, no I did not miss the point at all! The OP said they wanted an electric fence now. Then "down the line" maybe put up a cattle shed.......

It is good practice to plan ahead and future proof especially when it is known that an expansion is planned.

Lights and a pump are absolutely no problem for a simple solar set up.

For the lights I concede solar may be an option at a push (farmers tend to use twin corrosion proof fluorescent light fittings), but a water pump for a cattle?

After all I think that it is fair to assume that the OP intends to put cattle in the cattle shed.

Speaking from experience of wiring a cattle yard I was astounded by the amount of water that it required for a few cows. Without serious investment in solar panels, batteries etc. I would be very surprised if this option is financially viable for all but the smallest of pumps.

As the power is only being used intermittently then it is ideal for solar.

That is just it, I don't think that the requirements would be intermittent cattle drink a lot of water. Pumps have a high starting current (generally 5 to 8 times full load current). Starting and stopping of the pump will reduce battery life.

I wired a farm yard many moons ago. The entire yard was originally fed from an extension lead from the farmers house. First of all the farmer could not justify getting in a supply for "a couple of lights". Then it grew, from lights in a shed, to yard lights, to a pump for the yard, welder sockets, 3 electric fences, milking parlour, industrial units until I eventually had to install a 3 phase supply.

Modern farm yards use a lot of electricity, even with small yards cattle drink lots of water.

Solar panels are great for some applications (such as charging an iPhone when camping), but unless this is a very special farmyard with very low power requirements it is unlikely that it would be financially viable, practical or reliable to go with this option. Otherwise many farmers would be doing it and speaking as someone that was practically brought up on a farm in the sticks I don't know any.

Look around, PV solar panels have not exactly caught on in Ireland. There is a reason for that.

freddyuk

Quote:It is good practice to plan ahead and future proof especially when it is known that an expansion is planned.

Yes indeed and solar is perfect for that as it can be added to quite easily. Add panels/add batteries. No problem at all. Any good design would have a level of flexibility.

Quote: For the lights I concede solar may be an option at a push (farmers tend to use twin corrosion proof fluorescent light fittings), but a water pump for a cattle?

After all I think that it is fair to assume that the OP intends to put cattle in the cattle shed.

Speaking from experience of wiring a cattle yard I was astounded by the amount of water that it required for a few cows. Without serious investment in solar panels, batteries etc. I would be very surprised if this option is financially viable for all but the smallest of pumps.

Vapour proof fittings make no difference. LED lighting is very effective in stables/barns as I know from experience. Low wattage for high lumen output ensures the power demand is low. If you want to leave the lights blazing all night then no, it is not viable off a battery.

Quote: That is just it, I don't think that the requirements would be intermittent cattle drink a lot of water. Pumps have a high starting current (generally 5 to 8 times full load current). Starting and stopping of the pump will reduce battery life.

What I was saying is the pump will fill a cistern so that it works when the power is available. There is no need for a constant draw. I have no idea how much water a cow will need per day but we have just specified a system to pump 3000 litres per day (only because the well could not deliver the 6000 litres it could have pumped.) The pump is designed to run off a solar panel; in good sun obviously; and it will pump 1800 litres per hour at 300 watts. In less sun it will pump less but then it can run all day long if required down to about 80 watts.
So in reality that is no real drama. Your assumptions refer to a main voltage pump not a 24 volt DC supplied pump.

I would never suggest a modern farm yard should be run off a solar panel and that is not what the OP was asking so I have offered a cheap and easy solution to the problem as it was presented. There is no indication of a full time farm operation in the near future.
Just re reading the post again I really cannot see any signs of a large herd being kept here?
If you would like to see a properly designed solar pumping system then I am happy to send you details. It may dispel some of the myths.;)

2011

The pump is designed to run off a solar panel; in good sun obviously; and it will pump 1800 litres per hour at 300 watts.

There is a good link to pump efficiency here

A truly frictionless pumping system would in theory be 100% efficient; i.e. all the energy applied to it could reappear as hydraulic energy output. However, in the real world there are always friction losses associated with every mechanical and hydraulic process. Each component of a pumping system has an efficiency (or by implication, an energy loss) associated with it; the system efficiency or total efficiency is the product of multiplying together the efficiencies of all the components. For example, a small electrically driven centrifugal pump consists of an electric motor, (efficiency typically 85%), a mechanical transmission (efficiency if direct drive of say 98%), the pump itself (optimum efficiency say 70%) and the suction and delivery pipe system (say 80% efficient). The overall system efficiency will be the product of all these component efficiencies. In other words, the hydraulic power output, measured as (static head) x (flow) (since pipe losses have been considered as a pipe system efficiency) will in this case be 47%, derived as follows:

0.85 x 0.98 x 0.70 x 0.80 = 0.47

Based on the approximate figurers above:
300 watts output would mean about 300/0.47 = 638 watts of input power required.

If we include the power required to light a shed and mobile home plus the power for the electric fence then this would push the power requirements to over 1000 watts (or 1kW).

I will not pretend to be an expert on PV panels, but according to this website "one meter square solar panel will produce about 100 watts of electricity". I am sure that this will vary from country to country, but just to keep numbers round, it would seem to me that about 10 square meters of solar panels would be required to produce 1kW, but only when the sun is shining. I would imagine that this amount of solar panels would not come cheap.

I accept that the figures are very approximate, so I am open to correction on this.



So a 300 watt output can pump 1.8 metric tonnes of water in one hour, that sounds impressive. But this does not tell us much until we know the height that it can pump the water to.

If this pump can pump 1800 litres/hr that is = 5 litres per second.

Head height = (Time x Power) / (Mass x Gravity)

The pump is 300 watts, so power = 300 (watts)
Time = 1 (second)
Gravity = 10m/sec^2
Mass = 5 kg (a litre of water weighs 1 kg)
Hight = ?

⇒ height = (1 x 300) / (5 x 10)
⇒ height = 6m

Therefore assuming that there are no losses in the pipe (which of course is impossible) your 300 watt pump can only pump 1800 litres per hour if the well is 6m deep. Somehow I think that the average well that can produce this amount of water will be a lot deep than 6m. It does not sound very impressive anymore

I would never suggest a modern farm yard should be run off a solar panel and that is not what the OP was asking so I have offered a cheap and easy solution to the problem as it was presented.

If the solar panels are to power an electric fence, several lights and the pump (even for a 6m deep well) I don't think this will be a cheap option. There are also the costs associated with the batteries, and maintaining the batteries.

The cable run to the 24VDC pump will have to be very short or the cables will have to be larger than they would for a 230V pump as the current will be large (about 25A) for a pump with a 300W output. This will not help keep costs down either. If the pump is required at night or when the sun is behind the clouds the drain on batteries could be high enough.

freddyuk

Maybe you could check the attachment from a well known manufacturer -
http://www.lorentz.de/en/products/submersible_solar_pumps/ps150.html

2011

freddyuk wrote: »

Maybe you could check the attachment from a well known manufacturer -
http://www.lorentz.de/en/products/submersible_solar_pumps/ps150.html

It all looks very impressive, but it also looks very expensive.

I am sure they are very cost effective in the Australian bush when the sun is very intense and the nearest mains supply is hundreds of miles away.


Would be interested to know what size solar panels (for Irish conditions) I would need to supply power to the pump you described (300W, 24VDC able to pump 1800 litre / hr).
Also was my calculation correct (6m head) ?
Does link to pump efficiency align with the pump you described?

just do it

maryc. wrote: »

Can anyone help I want to get power to a outfarm, there waspower there around 10+ years ago in the old dwelling house but it wasdisconnected and meter removed (by ESB I presume) I want to get power to runelectric fence, the dwelling house and out houses are now derelict and falling in.

I plan to put upa small cattle shed on farm down the line which would need power for lights and water pump.I also was going to put a mobile home on the site just for shelter in case weget the odd wet day and to have a cup tea instead of leaving the farm

Do i need to put up a shed or house first to get a meter,could i just reroof one old houses and put meter in it they are old stonewalled. What are the costs??

New to this Board so sorry if i posted in wrong place

Hi MaryC

It maybe worth posting in the farming and forestry forum as plenty farmers there will have already faced the same problem.

JIT