Damp/Mould/Mildew on Bedroom Ceiling

vicwatson

It's a North facing bedroom, plenty of ventilation - vent from extractor fan in en-suite, there is a vent in the bedroom itself and both windows in en suite and bedroom are left ajar most days of the week, insulation checked in attic and all seems ok there. 4/5 spots on the ceiling starting to mould.

Though I've done nothing to repair it yet it's driving me nuts, there is even mould starting on the ceiling where the internal partition wall meets the ceiling.



Any answers or help for me?

TIA

tommy2bad

Subscribed.
I have this myself and haven't found any satisfactory solution. Washed it off, repainted with mold resistant paint to no avail.
Hopefully some helpful boardsie will have found a working permanent solution to this.

MicktheMan

Mould needs moisture to thrive. So no moisture = no mould.

Assuming there are no leaks (roof, pipework, etc) then in majority of cases the moisture is internally generated and not exhausted sufficiently quickly to the outside (vented) leading to continuous high relative humidity. This moisture will then condense on any surface with a temperature below its dew point thus supplying what the mould needs (i.e. moisture).

To sort the problem permanently, the ventilation system/strategy needs to be adjusted to ensure sufficient ventilation along with increasing the surface temperatures either by extra heating or insulation improvement or both. It will also help the situation if the internal moisture load is reduced by using mechanical extraction when creating steam and not drying clothes indoors (e.g. on rads).

vicwatson

MicktheMan wrote: »

Mould needs moisture to thrive. So no moisture = no mould.

Assuming there are no leaks (roof, pipework, etc) then in majority of cases the moisture is internally generated and not exhausted sufficiently quickly to the outside (vented) leading to continuous high relative humidity. This moisture will then condense on any surface with a temperature below its dew point thus supplying what the mould needs (i.e. moisture).

To sort the problem permanently, the ventilation system/strategy needs to be adjusted to ensure sufficient ventilation along with increasing the surface temperatures either by extra heating or insulation improvement or both. It will also help the situation if the internal moisture load is reduced by using mechanical extraction when creating steam and not drying clothes indoors (e.g. on rads).

Thanks, that's one thing we don't actually do is dry clothes on the rads.

So, where do I go from here, how do I get rid of the existing patches and then is it worth buying that insulating paint that I've seen in Woodies, it's about 75 euro.

I would also consider other types of insulation that can go on to the existing ceiling if it doesn't bring the ceiling down too much, what options are there?

Thanks in advance for your assistance

username123

In addition to what MicktheMan has said:

Mold thrives on semi porous surfaces, so unless the insulating paint is non porous I cant see how it will prevent mold from forming on it.

I have a similar problem in my front hall which is a small room with a tiny radiator and a cheap single paned front door. One thing that has significantly improved the situation for me is a thermal door curtain which is just a heavy curtain with a thermal lining. It slows down the heat loss in the room, and puts a layer of material between the warm air and the cold surface of the door, I have had a big improvement in how often there is condensation on the door since I put it in. I am looking into replacing the door altogether but as a cheap temporary solution the curtain is working well.

I am currently monitoring my situation with thermometers and hygrometers, I am considering a dehumidifier but tbh, I think its the temperature of the room I need to address. It is rarely more than a couple of degrees above the outside temperature in there, although this has improved somewhat since I put the curtain in, its only a part solution and I suspect as winter gets colder Im going to continue to have the condensation issue.

MicktheMan

vicwatson wrote: »

vent from extractor fan in en-suite,

Does the extraction fan actually work (effectively, that is)? Where is the ducting from the extractor going, what type of ducting is it, is it insulated and how is it routed?

vicwatson wrote: »

So, where do I go from here, how do I get rid of the existing patches and then is it worth buying that insulating paint that I've seen in Woodies, it's about 75 euro.

I would also consider other types of insulation that can go on to the existing ceiling if it doesn't bring the ceiling down too much, what options are there?

Thanks in advance for your assistance

Is there an attic above this space? If so, how is it insulated? If not then what is above this space? Do you know the makeup of the ceiling?

Forget that insulating paint (don't always believe what you read on a tin!).

tommy2bad

I'v got condensation on the window, a big picture window, every morning, could this be the source of the moisture?
Gona try a powered fan on/in the extraction vent to see if that helps but tbh I think the mold spores are in the ceiling plaster at this stage and need to be murdered before I repaint.

Villaines

Dettol mould & mildew is a good mould killer and also removes black stains before painting. Contains bleach though.

username123

tommy2bad wrote: »

I'v got condensation on the window, a big picture window, every morning, could this be the source of the moisture?
Gona try a powered fan on/in the extraction vent to see if that helps but tbh I think the mold spores are in the ceiling plaster at this stage and need to be murdered before I repaint.

The moisture in the air is condensing onto the cold glass of the window. Mold spores need damp to survive. They are everywhere all the time, but they need moisture and a porous surface to start growing on.

What room are you talking about? Relative humidity is a function of temperature, so unless you are introducing significant sources of moisture into the house from cooking, drying clothes etc then you probably need to raise the temperature of that room.

tommy2bad

Yeah raising the temp is the problem. It's the bedroom and sort of outside the trunk of the house (it's part of an extension)
The rad struggles as it last in the line and to top it all the windows north facing and surrounded by a wall and trees on the other sides. Might have to convert it into a pantry!

username123

Its the exact same issue as my hallway. North facing, last radiator, not part of the trunk of the building. In my case its a cheap front door too.

What about the window - is it double glazed? And what about insulation? Can you get the walls insulated?

vicwatson

Villaines wrote: »

Dettol mould & mildew is a good mould killer and also removes black stains before painting. Contains bleach though.

Is this actually called Dettol Mould and Mildew? Lookd for it in Tesco today and couldn't see it ?

vicwatson

MicktheMan wrote: »

Does the extraction fan actually work (effectively, that is)? Where is the ducting from the extractor going, what type of ducting is it, is it insulated and how is it routed?



Is there an attic above this space? If so, how is it insulated? If not then what is above this space? Do you know the makeup of the ceiling?

Forget that insulating paint (don't always believe what you read on a tin!).

Extractor fan is the bog standard but it's a small en suite with a window so it's probably capable.

There is an attic above the space and the insulation is regulation insulation (nothing hectic I wouldn't think) but I know it meets min requirements.

I didn't actually pick up a product to look, saw it on one of those tv's they have advertising products. Not fooled by stuff like that.

Ok, today I looked at the vent and noticed 1.the vents were pointing downwards so that air was not going towards the ceiling but the floor 2.the vent was shut over from day 1 3. when I took the vent down to turn it around and open it up I noticed some (not much) moisture/dew in the wavin pipe that forms the vent near where it is at the outside of the house - not sure if this has any revelance.

Not sure if the vent being closed and pointing the wrong was has any relevance????

Also, how/what is the best to clean the mould that's there presently ??

Thanks for all help

Villaines

vicwatson wrote: »

Is this actually called Dettol Mould and Mildew? Lookd for it in Tesco today and couldn't see it ?

Something like that, green bottle. Best stuff out there. Stinks like hell though.

vicwatson

Villaines wrote: »

Something like that, green bottle. Best stuff out there. Stinks like hell though.

Well where did you buy it? There are a 100 green bottles along the aisles in Tesco alone

3ndahalfof6

vicwatson wrote: »

Extractor fan is the bog standard but it's a small en suite with a window so it's probably capable.

There is an attic above the space and the insulation is regulation insulation (nothing hectic I wouldn't think) but I know it meets min requirements.

I didn't actually pick up a product to look, saw it on one of those tv's they have advertising products. Not fooled by stuff like that.

Ok, today I looked at the vent and noticed 1.the vents were pointing downwards so that air was not going towards the ceiling but the floor 2.the vent was shut over from day 1 3. when I took the vent down to turn it around and open it up I noticed some (not much) moisture/dew in the wavin pipe that forms the vent near where it is at the outside of the house - not sure if this has any revelance.

Not sure if the vent being closed and pointing the wrong was has any relevance????

Also, how/what is the best to clean the mould that's there presently ??

Thanks for all help

I think by your own investigation you have found the problem, what you were trying to get rid of was being reintroduced to the ceiling and other areas, it will be interesting to see the results if you alter the vent positioning.

Cushie Butterfield

vicwatson wrote: »

Well where did you buy it? There are a 100 green bottles along the aisles in Tesco alone

Look out for THIS ONE!

biko

I've had good results from using white vinegar in a spray bottle and simply spraying, wait a minute and wiping the mould off with kitchen paper.

vicwatson

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

I think by your own investigation you have found the problem, what you were trying to get rid of was being reintroduced to the ceiling and other areas, it will be interesting to see the results if you alter the vent positioning.

The result thus far was noise and breeze

I need to clear the ceiling now and get it back to "normal" state and then see if the change of vent position has any effect.

How in the hell are we supposed to heat our homes in this country when we have 6" vents open in every room :eek:

vicwatson

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

Look out for THIS ONE!

Tks, I found it in Tesco and read the back of it, it seems to be more for mould and mildew around showers and sink and in between tiles? Ever use it for mould/mildew on ceilings ??

"Suitable for: chrome & stainless steel, formica & plastics, ceramic basins & toilets, acrylic bath tubs & showers, glazed ceramic tiles & white grouting"

biko wrote: »

I've had good results from using white vinegar in a spray bottle and simply spraying, wait a minute and wiping the mould off with kitchen paper.

Just pure white vinegar? No dilution??

Thanks.

quietsailor

tommy2bad wrote: »

Yeah raising the temp is the problem. It's the bedroom and sort of outside the trunk of the house (it's part of an extension)
The rad struggles as it last in the line and to top it all the windows north facing and surrounded by a wall and trees on the other sides. Might have to convert it into a pantry!

Is the last rad lukewarm where the others on the same line are hot?

On the outlet of most radiators is a second valve called a balancing valve. It's used to set the water flow rate through each radiator.

First check how open the one on the last rad is.

You could try closing in all these valves on the radiators BEFORE the one in the cold room and seeing if that forces more water into the last radiator. If you do this keep a record of how much you close those valves - it might not work and you will need to reset everything back to the way it was.

If that doesn't work and your house has zoned heating each zone will have another balance valve on the main pipe for each zone so it may be a case of taking water (heat) from another zone and sending it to the zone with your cold rad. At this stage though unless your a very strong DIYer I'd advise resetting all the individual balance valves to their original position and getting
in a plumber.

biko

vicwatson wrote: »

Just pure white vinegar? No dilution??

Yup, just pure. It doesn't stain or anything*

*at least not in my experience.

MMAGirl

All of the problems here will be solved by a dehumidifier. Put it on in the morning and let it get the moisture level down to 50%

If you can get a silent one that you can leave on during the night that would be even better.

Just breathing raises the moisture content of the room overnight. Water is condensing on every cool surface even if you can't see it.

Remove the moisture and mould won't grow.

username123

MMAGirl wrote: »

All of the problems here will be solved by a dehumidifier. Put it on in the morning and let it get the moisture level down to 50%

My neighbour (well all my neighbours) have the same problem as me and more than one of them have dehumidifiers and the problem still exists.

I have hygrometers around the apartment and relative humidity has a direct relationship with temperature so even when the rest of the place is warm and shows an RH below 50%, the hallway is still baltic and showing an RH of way above 50%.

MMAGirl

username123 wrote: »

My neighbour (well all my neighbours) have the same problem as me and more than one of them have dehumidifiers and the problem still exists.

I have hygrometers around the apartment and relative humidity has a direct relationship with temperature so even when the rest of the place is warm and shows an RH below 50%, the hallway is still baltic and showing an RH of way above 50%.

Have you tried a dehumidifier yourself and ensured you are operating it correctly?

Another thing that makes the problem worse is people not turning on the heat in one or two rooms.
Big temp differentials plus moisture equals trouble. I'm 100% certain a dehumidifier will help many times more than vinegar or bleach. Bleach first then use a dehumidifier. Keep the moisture out and mold won't come back.

You can also get ones that duct the moist air out and the dried air back in.
The machine doesn't have to be in the same room. They cost less than 1c an hour to run. Might be worth checking with an expert to look at your problem

username123

MMAGirl wrote: »

Have you tried a dehumidifier yourself and ensured you are operating it correctly?

No point, my neighbour with the exact same layout and problem in the same room uses one and it doesnt change a thing. He has borrowed my hygrometers and thermometors and we have comparable conditions. On top of that, I have sinus problems that (too) dry air will irritate.

The issue (for me anyway) is that the room is not correctly insulated, is as cold as outdoors, has a tiny radiator that loses all its heat through the cheap single paned front door.

Its worth noting that one neighbour replaced the front door and the problem is solved because the room stays warmer. I cant afford that right now though.

slimjimmc

username123 wrote: »

Its worth noting that one neighbour replaced the front door and the problem is solved because the room stays warmer. I cant afford that right now though.

A good heavy curtain or a thermal door curtain across the front door would help a lot.

username123

slimjimmc wrote: »

A good heavy curtain or a thermal door curtain across the front door would help a lot.

Yeah, I put one up about a month ago. It has worked to some degree alright. I do still get some condensation when the outside temperature is very low - its not airtight ya know?

Im planning on replacing the door, just not right now.

vicwatson

So, I've cleaned off the mould with vinegar, and the vent is now open (getting blown out of it and freezing so hope its worth it).

Should I use some type of special paint over the small patches where the mould was ?

If it doesn't stay away with the vent open I don't know what to do.

clappyhappy

Sorry for dragging up an old thread.

Painting my sons room this week, bit of mould in one corner. I think it's where the roof meets an angled roof on the front of the house. Think a bit of rain is getting in around the lead, but I can't get up there myself to fix it.

Will try the vinegar to clean the ceiling now and get the special paint to cover it up, then paint normal white over it.

I suppose getting the lead sorted on the roof is the only permanent way to resolve this.

jigsey

Sorry for Re-opening this thread :-)

I am having the same problem since the House was Built in 2007

North facing Bay Windows.on each corner of this facing wall.... We get black mould.. Every year we wipe it away with Mould X and it stays away for another year...

Yesterday after conducting this Annual ritual, i said id investigate the space above... (Large Bungalow with insulated floor attic space -)

The insulation is the Gray fibre stuff thats sprayed in between all the joists...

In each corner of the affected area, its restricted. I managed to get my hand in, and found no insulation... For some reason the insulation contractors missed these important bits...

So this week i shall insulate, hopefully that will solve the problem

Jigsey

king size mars bar

Come across this problem a lot in work, 9 times out of 10 it's due to no insulation sitting on slab above the area of mould, nearly always around the edges of the ceilings at eaves up in attic. Ensure that the insulation is covering the slab out to the wall plate and we use HG mould remover to get rid of the mould on the ceiling beneath it, the stain block the affected area. Hope this helps.

jigsey

Can i buy the Gray fibre stuff or will i have to use the Rolls??

Cheers

king size mars bar

I'd use what is used in the attic but if you wanted to use rolls I couldn't see problem with that.

Calahonda52

jigsey wrote: »

....
1 The insulation is the Gray fibre stuff thats sprayed in between all the joists...


2 So this week i shall insulate, hopefully that will solve the problem

What exactly do you mean by statement 1: grey stuff.... sprayed?

What exactly do u mean by statement 2: I shall insulate...?

You may well cause another problem if you don't do it properly.

https://www.nsai.ie/S-R-54-2014-Code-of-Practice.aspx
may help
as might the ACDs here
http://www.environ.ie/en/TGD/

I dont believe you will be able to solve the problem with rolls, as access is limited and air will pass under the rolls, making the insulation useless.

equally: mars bar is on the money as to the cause.

Search this website using google advanced search with boards.ie in the site domain and put ion key words to find other posts on this problem.

jigsey

Sorry typo Gray stuff is the Recycled clothing and wool eco stuff....

Keeps the rooms below cool in Summer and Warm in winter....

It was very expensive to install....

But im guessing guessing the areas i mentioned were missed..

Calahonda52

Is it sprayed on?

jigsey

Yep it came in a big tank sprayer