Installing a bathroom light(fighting losing battle)

Berty

Hello,

I bought a new light fitting and the wiring has done my head in.

The fitting that came down had a blue and brown wire. Important? Now behind are 6 wires,

Two blue
Four brown

The new fitting has a diagram:

Pre wired to fitting side: L being live feed
Earth which is a metal link and N neutral

Here's where I am so far

I have the two blue wires coming from the wall in the N and have two brown in each.

The problem I have is:

When I have two brown in one order the light is on permanently and when I have the brown in another order the switch seems to operate the light in another room.

I'm currently at the "operating the other room" setup and I'm stopping for the night.

Worth noting there is a metal wire, not an electrical wire just a metal wire coming through the opening as well. Earth possibly? Not connected to anything mind.

Help greatly appreciated.

meercat

connect all the blues together in a connector block(CONNECT TO THE LIGHT LATER) these are your neutrals
connect all the green/yellows together in another connector(CONNECT TO THE LIGHT LATER)these are your earths

you now have 4 brown wires(,these are feeds,loop feeds,live to switch and switch wire)
3 of which should be in a connector block(NOT CONNECTED TO THE LIGHT )
the other brown connected to the light fitting

If you havnt marked them ,then its a process of elimination


make sure power is off from the board when you are working on this

Berty

That makes no sense to me I'm afraid

(1) I don't have green or yellow wires
(2) Why do I need more blocks, the last light only had one block and the new one only has one block.

I just need help figuring out the sequence of where to put the wires.

fuerte1976

Time for a qualified electrician before you or someone else gets hurt me thinks...

Berty

fuerte1976 wrote: »

Time for a qualified electrician before you or someone else gets hurt me thinks...

Electricity hurts ,yes, but not when the board is off. I'm not ready to call in an electrician for a job that I should be able to tackle myself with help on this forum.

meercat

Beer Baron wrote: »

That makes no sense to me I'm afraid

(1) I don't have green or yellow wires
(2) Why do I need more blocks, the last light only had one block and the new one only has one block.

I just need help figuring out the sequence of where to put the wires.

any chance of a pic
(1)possibly bare copper conductors(there should be an earth wire somewhere)
(2)you need connectors to continue power to the other room lights

connect all blues together in connector block(these will later connect into light fitting)

connect the 4 brown wires in a connector block and check all other lights are functioning correctly
remove 1 brown wire and see if this affects other lights
if it does then connect it back in
remove another brown wire until you find one that has no affect on any other light
when you find one then this is the one that you need to connect into the light fitting

Berty

I see what you're getting at now Meercat. It looks like many trips up and down the stairs to the board so before I find the the problem.

So I connect all the wires into the other/new connector and basically have all the lights on and through trial and error find the wire that doesn't affect the others, making this the wire that is for the new light fitting.

When I find it I connect this to the new fitting and then one or two blues(?). What do I do for earth?

Do I then continue to work with the two connectors?

meercat

Beer Baron wrote: »

I see what you're getting at now Meercat. It looks like many trips up and down the stairs to the board so before I find the the problem.

So I connect all the wires into the other/new connector and basically have all the lights on and through trial and error find the wire that doesn't affect the others, making this the wire that is for the new light fitting.

When I find it I connect this to the new fitting and then one or two blues(?). What do I do for earth?

Do I then continue to work with the two connectors?

So I connect all the wires into the other/new connector and basically have all the lights on and through trial and error find the wire that doesn't affect the others, making this the wire that is for the new light fitting. YES

When I find it I connect this to the new fitting YES

then one or two blues TWO BLUES

What do I do for earth?IT MAY BE HIDDEN BEHIND PLASTERBOARD

Do I then continue to work with the two connectors?YES,

Berty

Right okay. Home now and did the above with a new connector and all the light upstairs are on except for the box room, main room and en suite. It doesn't matter what brown wire is connected to the block or not.

I decided to try the same with the existing block that came with the fitting that has the earth Pre connected to the unit but the best I can manage is all lights are working except I cannot get the ensuite to switch off.

This was just after my first attempt with the connector block. Again the box room, main bed nor the en suite worked.

Berty

Something I noticed as well. It appears the extractor fan in the ensuite is also connected in some way through these wires as it has not worked when the en suite light has not worked. It has it's own switch next to the light switch.

onliner

Looks to me like you have a metal light fitting which requires an earth wire. You do not have any earth wire shown. Judging by the picture you have the 6 wires entering the fitting through a small hole. The insulation could be damaged or could at a future time make contact with the matal fitting thus making the fitting live. In a barhroom or kitched this is particularly dangerous. So get this fitting properly earthed or get a plastic fitting which does not require an earth. The connections to get this to operate correctly are not as important as safety.

Berty

Folks I gave up in the end and a local electrician is coming by this evening on his way home from a job. He said "I could tell you now how to fix it but it's better that I fix it myself" When I asked how much he said "Nope, nothing I don't want anything for the job".

We agreed we would offer him money when he arrives later. He is a fully LTD Electrical company doing domestic and commercial with about 6 guys working for him so. Had I known electricians work for free I would have just got him to do it straight away.

He says that 3 brown need to be connected into one location(sounded like he was going to connect two to one of them and that one into the block), one brown is the earth and the blue are neutral of course and it is only a matter of figuring out which is which. He has worked on these houses before apparently.

vicwatson

Beer Baron wrote: »

Folks I gave up in the end and a local electrician is coming by this evening on his way home from a job. He said "I could tell you now how to fix it but it's better that I fix it myself" When I asked how much he said "Nope, nothing I don't want anything for the job".

We agreed we would offer him money when he arrives later. He is a fully LTD Electrical company doing domestic and commercial with about 6 guys working for him so. Had I known electricians work for free I would have just got him to do it straight away.

He says that 3 brown need to be connected into one location(sounded like he was going to connect two to one of them and that one into the block), one brown is the earth and the blue are neutral of course and it is only a matter of figuring out which is which. He has worked on these houses before apparently.

Lets know the result please.

Berty

vicwatson wrote: »

Lets know the result please.

Using his multi meter with the light switch on he found out which cable was live and connected that to the light fitting along with the two neutrals. The other 3 brown wires he connected to the connector block. I had a triple one but he just snipped it off into a single section as seen in the picture.



I honestly tried to get him to take money and he refused. Time is money after all irrespective of the size of the job.

meercat

meercat wrote: »

3 of which should be in a connector block(NOT CONNECTED TO THE LIGHT )
the other brown connected to the light fitting

fair play to him anyhow


there should be an earth wire there though

Berty

meercat wrote: »

fair play to him anyhow


there should be an earth wire there though

There's an earth in the wall behind the unit connected to the wiring.

meercat

Beer Baron wrote: »

There's an earth in the wall behind the unit connected to the wiring.

should be connected onto the metal plate though(middle connector block)
not having a go now:D

SweetCaliber

meercat wrote: »

should be connected onto the metal plate though(middle connector block)
not having a go now:D

Yeah, could be changing the bulb one day, might be a fault with the light or a live might come loose and touch the metal casing, you touch the metal and next thing you know your in your neighbor's garden

Now that you know how to connect it, I would strongly recommend you connect the earth wire to it. Really surprised the electrician didn't do this.

onliner

There should be an earth connected. By the way is the fan running at all times now or how is the fan switched ?.

Berty

No the fan was on its own switch which he wasn't at all happy about. He said that it should be together or at least that's the way he'd do it.

So the fan is now working but on its own switch like before.

Bruthal

meercat wrote: »

there should be an earth wire there though

Wouldnt of put the cores through a metal fitting with such a tight hole myself anyway, and with no bushing or profile, if it is indeed metal.