Aer Lingus Strike

C.O.Y.B.I.B

Hi ,

Hoping someone here can help . Im flying to London with Aer Lingus on 19th November (Day of the strike) and have to catch a connecting flight there with a 3hr layover. Now my flight isnt until 17.30 and my question is , what are the chances of a full day knock on effect from a 2 hr strike (10-12am).
As I understand it the route is operated by a 320 , but a different one every day and the plane seems to go to 3/4 different destinations every day .
So what happens if the plane i am due to fly on is in Zurich at 10am and the pilot/crew down tools for 2 hours and it leaves Zurich at 12.30 instead . Surely that flight will never make up the 2-2 1/2 hrs before 17.30. Also if the plane is in the sky at strike time what happens ?

Thanks for your help

Bessarion

I wouldn't worry too much. Ei have publicly stated that they will do as much as they can to minimise disruption. They will examine bookings and try to move transfer pax onto earlier flights. I would hazard a guess that they may reschedule some flight so they are before of after the 2 hour stoppage.

The union (SIPTU) have stated that the work stoppage will be from 10-12 at Aer Lingus stations. Any staff away from base will continue to work, so no chance of the pilots 'downing tools at Zurich'. (On that note the pilots and cabin crew are not SIPTU staff,in addition they work not want to be stuck abroad....there work time limit starts as soon as they leave home base)

In regards to you situation I think you will be fine. EI will protect transfers and be that time any backlog should be recovered.

Bearcat

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote:

So what happens if the plane i am due to fly on is in Zurich at 10am and the pilot/crew down tools
Thanks for your help

The pilots are not downing tools as you say......it's nothing to do with them.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

Bearcat wrote: »

The pilots are not downing tools as you say......it's nothing to do with them.

Yeah , I didnt actually realise they were a different union. Didnt mean to offend anyone . Im just worried because Im travelling for 13 hrs for a wedding and if I miss my connection in LHR I might aswell head back home. BA have said I can go on their earlier flight for €150 p.p. , but the budget is a bit tight and id rather not have to pay it if theres a good chance i'll be fine.
Thanks for the insight .

Stovepipe

if the timing is for 10-12, then it's been well calculated because departure peaks are 6-7, 9-10, and 1-2, so the heaviest EI departure times are being avoided, which is a shrewd move on behalf of the unions. It's a bite but not a serious bite. Normal service will continue.
regards
Stovepipe

A319er

off again but no doubt we will have more to write on this issue

C.O.Y.B.I.B

Just saw this now . Luckily I had decided to take my chances rather than pay the €300 change fee based on the responses here .
So thanks !

A319er

WELL DONE , I have to say as worker at Dublin I can assure you a robust plan is ready in the even of any stopage, I believe that Unions are aware they have a problem with actually having a strike at all as technicaly EI have done no wrong , the pension rules have quite rightly changed and now must be funded in a more robust way, of course OUR banks solved this same problem just by using OUR bailout funds to re finace their shortfalls but most pension funds are in the red , I ahve three pensions , all worth less that my contributions , not sure who I can go on strike against tho .......

Unions could be taken to court for any action against EI or DAA as neither company caused the problems ...

Pension problems are a huge problem Europe wide and as far as I can see the only GVT action is to hope fewer people live to pension age which they will keep increasing to ensure their great plan works lol

whitebriar

Cabin crew have voted to strike in support of the Snn crews.
Vote 90%+ in favour accordingto newstalk.

When's that starting?
Would it be 30 days notice from today?

basill

101 of labour relations with AL.....

Step 1 - offer to meet AL to discuss grievance
Step 2 - be told to feck off
Step 3 - seek a ballot
Step 4 - pass the ballot
Step 5 - offer to meet AL to discuss grievance
Step 6 - be told to feck off
Step 7 - countdown the days till strike is due
Step 8 - LRC and Govt jump in and bang heads together
Step 9 - Meet at LRC and reach an agreement with minutes to spare till strike is due
Step 10 - Strike called off
Step 11 - Have a cuddle
Step 12 - Start again at Step 1

kona

I wonder if they will tell the full story of the snn story!?

basill

You mean how they always wanted the base closed?

It's a business, not a charity.

If there's a business plan as to why the base should stay open, then let's fight tooth & nail to keep it open.

If not, then it's a business, not a charity.

andy_g

basill wrote: »

101 of labour relations with AL.....

Step 1 - offer to meet AL to discuss grievance
Step 2 - be told to feck off
Step 3 - seek a ballot
Step 4 - pass the ballot
Step 5 - offer to meet AL to discuss grievance
Step 6 - be told to feck off
Step 7 - countdown the days till strike is due
Step 8 - LRC and Govt jump in and bang heads together
Step 9 - Meet at LRC and reach an agreement with minutes to spare till strike is due
Step 10 - Strike called off
Step 11 - Have a cuddle
Step 12 - Start again at Step 1

Spot the EI employeed :P

Sandwlch

basill wrote: »

101 of labour relations with AL.....

Step 1 - offer to meet AL to discuss grievance
Step 2 - be told to feck off
Step 3 - seek a ballot
Step 4 - pass the ballot
Step 5 - offer to meet AL to discuss grievance
Step 6 - be told to feck off
Step 7 - countdown the days till strike is due
Step 8 - LRC and Govt jump in and bang heads together
Step 9 - Meet at LRC and reach an agreement with minutes to spare till strike is due
Step 10 - Strike called off
Step 11 - Have a cuddle
Step 12 - Start again at Step 1

Find-Replace "grievance" with "staff not wanting to adapt to commercial reality" and I think you have it alright.

kub

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a business, not a charity.

If there's a business plan as to why the base should stay open, then let's fight tooth & nail to keep it open.

If not, then it's a business, not a charity.

With the way Shannon are embracing Ryanair again it is no wonder that EI are shutting down their base. Looks like there will only be EI t/a ops out of there eventually.

highlydebased

kub wrote: »

With the way Shannon are embracing Ryanair again it is no wonder that EI are shutting down their base. Looks like there will only be EI t/a ops out of there eventually.

It's a transatlantic crew base which FR would have no impact on realistically

kona

basill wrote: »

You mean how they always wanted the base closed?

Who cabin crew? They made a good mess of playing hardball.

basill

Actually it's a LHR/ T/A base and provides cover for Cork and Dublin for the inevitable sorry we got the numbers wrong again.

Roblestone

andy_g wrote: »

Spot the EI employeed :P

Save the humour for the off topic thread please.

LoonyLovegood

They've balloted for strike action how many times in the last ten years, but the last strike was around a decade ago. Honestly, if I hear of an EI strike ballot I never think it'll go ahead until it's the day of.

andy_g

Roblestone wrote: »

Save the humour for the off topic thread please.

Less of the back seat modding or it will be to the dungeons with you.

eatmyshorts

Roblestone wrote: »

Save the humour for the off topic thread please.

Brilliant.....but I fear it just went completely over the head.

Roblestone

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Brilliant.....but I fear it just went completely over the head.

Yeah, I think it went over his head too. Here's to remind him....

"Quote: Roblestone
Ok just to confirm, no humour in any thread here apart from the Off Topic thread? Correct?

Andy_g:
Thread's that have a serious topic will be treated as such, for laugh and banter off topic was created.


I guess it's one rule for him, another for us. Seems fair I guess.

dubdaymo

They've balloted for strike action how many times in the last ten years, but the last strike was around a decade ago. Honestly, if I hear of an EI strike ballot I never think it'll go ahead until it's the day of.

A decade? LOL. Methinks you need to check the facts and come back to us. I'll give you a clue, FR/Monarch.

Roblestone

CTYIgirl wrote: »

They've balloted for strike action how many times in the last ten years, but the last strike was around a decade ago. Honestly, if I hear of an EI strike ballot I never think it'll go ahead until it's the day of.

January 2011

LoonyLovegood

Roblestone wrote: »

January 2011

I stand corrected, forgot about that one. Teaches me to double check my 'facts'!

cruais

Last aerlingus was ten years ago. January 2011 was when employees were suspended by the ceo.

Google people, google!

dubdaymo

Last aerlingus was ten years ago. January 2011 was when employees were suspended by the ceo.!

Pray, tell us why they were suspended, then:)? Ah. I'll save you the trouble. They refused to carry out their duties as required by their employers (those who pay their wages) so they were effectively on strike - let's not mince words.

Preset No.3

Normally Im not one to support a strike, because you always have the 'arent they lucky to have a job' rabble coming on and giving out.

From what I can see, EI cc have time and time again given for the sake of the airline. Never has the company given back. Granted, Muller has transformed the airline into a decent profit making business, but does he deserve the bonus's he has gotten?

The most recent example of the EI way or no way was the sacking of the staff who had started their training for the 757 services. The crew did not want to operate with 4 crew on a transatlantic flight, so everyone was sacked! Simple, effective, do what we say or F**K OFF! I simply cannot see how 4 crew looking after a flight for 7-8 hours will work. My most recent United flight on a 757 had 2 in business class, and 4 down the back.

So come on crew, strike STRIKE STRIKE!!!! Drive the airline price down, so that Muller's 1.5million shares will be worth f**k all!!!!

Preset No.3

Preset No.3 wrote: »

So come on crew, strike STRIKE STRIKE!!!! Drive the airline price down, so that Muller's 1.5million shares will be worth f**k all!!!!

Leaving us all without a way to get across the Atlantic, to the UK or Europe other than Ryanair, UK or US airlines. Sure, that'll stick it to the man.

Preset No.3

So you would not be happy with:

American Airlines
Delta
United
US Airways

to various destinations across the atlantic?

Or:

Aer Lingus Regional
CityJet
Ryanair
British Airways
various others

across the Irish sea and mainland Europe?

We, the travelling public have loads of options for flights. The cabin crew member that has seen her workload double, her salary half in the last couple of years, while Mueller gets big bonus's just wants a decent wage for the job!

Bessarion

dubdaymo wrote: »

A decade? LOL. Methinks you need to check the facts and come back to us. I'll give you a clue, FR/Monarch.

Roblestone wrote: »

January 2011

From Nov 2010 EI crew were working to rule and the company themselves stated that the dispute was having a minimal effect on passengers. Once the busy season was over EI decided it was time to turn the screws and they began forcing crew to sign new agreements as they came into work.

dubdaymo wrote: »

.......They refused to carry out their duties as required by their employers (those who pay their wages) so they were effectively on strike - let's not mince words.

Aer Lingus suspended 2/3 of their cabin crew as they refused to accept new workings conditions that were unilaterally introduced by the company even though Labour Relations Commission were still in the process of acting as an "independent arbitrator" The crew were 'working to rule' as in carrying out their duties as stipulated in the contracts that they had signed.
Some crew were suspended for sitting down for 20 minutes on a turnaround to eat a meal during a 10 hour working day.

The Aer Lingus crew were adherring to the mutually agreed contract and working conditions that was implemented as part of the Greenfield plan in 2010. )The company then decided that they wanted more than that and ignored some elements while introducing new parts.


I'll love to see your reaction if your employer did the same to you; "Thanks for the 15% salary reduction and the 10% productivity increase last year, it really helped to turn the company around.........however we now need you in at 7am somedays rather than 9am tomorrow and might have to hold you for longer than 5pm, but we will only tell you that when you get into work that day. Lunch breaks must now be taken standing up beside the toilet in your workspace. If you ever get sick you will still have to come to work to be seen by the company doctor and you will receive calls when off duty asking you to come in to work"

"P.S. You can apply for holiday time but we will allocate up to 20% of your entitlement without having to give you more than 4 weeks notice"

cruais

dubdaymo wrote: »

Pray, tell us why they were suspended, then:)? Ah. I'll save you the trouble. They refused to carry out their duties as required by their employers (those who pay their wages) so they were effectively on strike - let's not mince words.

Correct me if I am wrong but if my memory stands, ei crew did not receive the migration package unlike the rest of the ei employess. Also, their average day seems to be between 10 - 12 hours and they were being told that they werent allowed a 30 minute meal break.

You would have to be robotic and have a heart of stone if you were to agree with this.

If you work, can u honestly tell me that you would be prepared to stand on your feet for a twelve hour day without a chance of having a 30 minute break.

That comes across as a bit of a slave worker.

Im a frequent flyer and at this stage would know alot of the crew to see, and give them.my 100% support in their bid for survival in the airline industry!

Bessarion

cruais wrote: »

......Also, their average day seems to be between 10 - 12 hours and they were being told that they werent allowed a 30 minute meal break.

You would have to be robotic and have a heart of stone if you were to agree with this.

If you work, can u honestly tell me that you would be prepared to stand on your feet for a twelve hour day without a chance of having a 30 minute break.....

As with so many companies, the staff at the coalface are expected to do things that the mgmt wouldn't dream of........I'm a great believer in leadership by example and mutual respect.

cruais

Bessarion wrote: »

Not to worry....an EI cabin crew manager recently stated...."Don't you get to sit down for take-off and landing"
I really wish that I was making that up but farcically I am not.

The mind baffles. Im presuming you work there. How as a company are they getting away with that in terms of legality?

kona

cruais wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but if my memory stands, ei crew did not receive the migration package unlike the rest of the ei employess. Also, their average day seems to be between 10 - 12 hours and they were being told that they werent allowed a 30 minute meal break.

You would have to be robotic and have a heart of stone if you were to agree with this.

If you work, can u honestly tell me that you would be prepared to stand on your feet for a twelve hour day without a chance of having a 30 minute break.

That comes across as a bit of a slave worker.

Im a frequent flyer and at this stage would know alot of the crew to see, and give them.my 100% support in their bid for survival in the airline industry!

theres plenty of jobs in aviation that do 12 hour days sometimes more, sometimes people wont see the light of day for months. EI cabin crew arnt the only section working their bollix off yet they seem to be the only ones going on strike?? other areas didnt get the migration deal either.

I do agree that you cant be made work like a slave and Im sure some cabin crew do, and they do a great job, but I cannot stand playing the victim role.

cruais

Its the whole break issue that I just dont get! How is this allowed?

If my boss said to me tomorrow morning that k wasnt entitled to a 30minute break for the rest of my career id take him to the european courts of human rights.

Sure even the inmates in mountjoy get a bit of down time

kona wrote: »

theres plenty of jobs in aviation that do 12 hour days sometimes more, sometimes people wont see the light of day for months. EI cabin crew arnt the only section working their bollix off yet they seem to be the only ones going on strike?? other areas didnt get the migration deal either.

I do agree that you cant be made work like a slave and Im sure some cabin crew do, and they do a great job, but I cannot stand playing the victim role.

christy c

cruais wrote: »

Its the whole break issue that I just dont get! How is this allowed?

If my boss said to me tomorrow morning that k wasnt entitled to a 30minute break for the rest of my career id take him to the european courts of human rights.

Sure even the inmates in mountjoy get a bit of down time

I'm just going from memory and could be miles off but I think they are allowed a break but it is in flight not on the ground, I think that's what the 2011 strike was about

Bessarion

christy c wrote: »

I'm just going from memory and could be miles off but I think they are allowed a break but it is in flight not on the ground, I think that's what the 2011 strike was about

Previously it was on the ground due 50-60 minutes turnarounds....it was often not bothered with in order to make up time....who wants to deliberately lengthen your day?

Shorter turnarounds (which mostly only work on paper in this case) mean no break...so inflight was decided.....doesn't really work on 4 1 hr 20 sectors..... then later.....told take 30 minutes in 5 minutes sections.

The company imposed suspensions in 2011 (no strike happened)were over a range of issues, the break was an easily explained flashpoint.


To answer Kona above......I agree....cabin crew are merely the tip of the iceberg in EI at present. EI mgmt have been cutting to the bone throughout the organisation. All other sections are under pressure and keeping things held together through staff being flexible. All so some power point presentation can get a productivity bonus for middle mgmt. Other sections are similarly simmering over as EI mgmt are not actually dealing with problems merely putting 'band-aid solutions' over them.

Locker10a

I hope the LRC resolve the current dispute soon! Fingers crossed! And I truly hope EI dont begin to outsource its front line employees especially cabin crew it would be a terrible shame.

Mc Love

A lot of lives will be ruined if they pull the SNN base!

Suasdaguna1

Mc Love wrote: »

A lot of lives will be ruined if they pull the SNN base!

Wouldn't say management are loosing any sleep over the implications .:(

munchkin_utd

Mc Love wrote: »

A lot of lives will be ruined if they pull the SNN base!

lives ruined?
Because Aer Lingus is abandoning short haul at SNN and the union members doing short haul routes dont want to continue in that role on a long haul flights. In other airlines getting to do long haul is seen as a promotion.
In shannon its "ruining your life".

well, strangely the cabin crew are now happy to do the transatlantic routes which is nothing to do with the bribe that Aer Lingus are having to pay them.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/overnight-breakthrough-in-talks-between-aer-lingus-and-cabin-crew-29756600.html

Preset No.3

All cabin cew will receive eight additional "credits" worth a total of €36 per trip.

In addition, senior cabin crew will receive an extra 12 credits per return trip worth €54

---

Well they sold out fairly easily! 4 crew on a transatlantic flight is not workable.

Bessarion

Preset No.3 wrote: »

....Well they sold out fairly easily! 4 crew on a transatlantic flight is not workable.

Its not a "sell-out" as this was the compromise decided upon by the LRC. Looks like Aer Lingus got their way thanks to the national industrial relations mechanisms yet again.

From March, the flights would have four cabin crew, under the terms of documents produced by LRC director of conciliation Kevin Foley.


I agree that 4 on a B757 is not operationally robust.....I would think a 4/5 level dependent on passenger load would be a more flexible and reliable system. No mention of whether not this number will be reviewed after a period of time. It mentions 5 crew for "training and familiarisation purposes"...sure that will be done in a month or two.

Lets see how the Business class, time sensitive and/or service oriented passengers respond. (Leisure pax are mostly motivated by fare price) On another note will we see Aer Lingus lowering the fares on their routes ex-SNN, after all as they themselves have argued, the B757 will be cheaper to operate than the A330.

Locker10a

So has the SNN base been saved?? What will happen to the crew who were in training?

Locker10a

munchkin_utd wrote: »

lives ruined?
Because Aer Lingus is abandoning short haul at SNN and the union members doing short haul routes dont want to continue in that role on a long haul flights. In other airlines getting to do long haul is seen as a promotion.
In shannon its "ruining your life".

well, strangely the cabin crew are now happy to do the transatlantic routes which is nothing to do with the bribe that Aer Lingus are having to pay them.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/overnight-breakthrough-in-talks-between-aer-lingus-and-cabin-crew-29756600.html

That's not entirely accurate the crew already did transatlantic! But anyway yes its going to be 4 crew and it seems therefore the crew didn't entirely get their way but the main thing in my opinion is that the base has been saved! We will just have to wait and see how things work out .