CAT C Write Off - Finding out more info?

Rowley Birkin QC

Have been looking for a well specced M-Sport E46 Coupé for months on end and have finally found one with excellent spec, low mileage and looks perfect.

Drove it last night for over 30 mins, all seemed fine, seller seemed genuine.

However, I did a Cartell check on it last night and it turns out it was a CAT C writeoff. Mileage does check out though.

What's my best course of action here? I've been reading up on CAT C, so it is possible that the car was beyond economical repair but not structurally so. As I say, it looked and felt tight as a drum. Obviously the seller never mentioned this last night and I haven't questioned him on it yet, will do so in person later on.

There's a BMW specialist across the road from my house who does pre-sales inspections for €100, still tempted to purchase if it comes through that ok. Car is NCT'd til May 2013.

Anyway, any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.

oregano

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Have been looking for a well specced M-Sport E46 Coupé for months on end and have finally found one with excellent spec, low mileage and looks perfect.

Drove it last night for over 30 mins, all seemed fine, seller seemed genuine.

However, I did a Cartell check on it last night and it turns out it was a CAT C writeoff. Mileage does check out though.

What's my best course of action here? I've been reading up on CAT C, so it is possible that the car was beyond economical repair but not structurally so. As I say, it looked and felt tight as a drum. Obviously the seller never mentioned this last night and I haven't questioned him on it yet, will do so in person later on.

There's a BMW specialist across the road from my house who does pre-sales inspections for €100, still tempted to purchase if it comes through that ok. Car is NCT'd til May 2013.

Anyway, any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.

Get the specialist to check it over, and if he's happy and you think the price is ok, buy it.

E46 build stopped in 05 I think so once you come to sell it it'll be worth sod all anyway. A lot of e46 are ending up in scrapyards anyway due to the cost of maintenance and tax, so parts will be cheap in the future.

Anjobe

When selling a car that has been a category C write off the seller is legally obliged to inform buyers of this fact, I believe. Also I think there should be an engineers report confirming that the car has been repaired properly and is safe to drive on the road.

Rowley Birkin QC

Cheers.

One thing that struck me as strange was that the car is Irish and was CAT C. I wasn't aware that we had a formal system for classifying write-offs?

Henry Ford III

Car might be ok if it's been repaired properly, but it's value will be considerably less than a similar car that hadn't been w/o.

I'd try and establish the value of a normal example, and look for between 30-40% off. If this isn't possible just walk away.

oregano

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Cheers.

One thing that struck me as strange was that the car is Irish and was CAT C. I wasn't aware that we had a formal system for classifying write-offs?

Good point. Phone cartell and ask them for clarification. They'll explain their report better than anyone on boards can

Rowley Birkin QC

oregano wrote: »

Good point. Phone cartell and ask them for clarification. They'll explain their report better than anyone on boards can

Had a chat with Cartell.

There is no formal classification system in Ireland, just the insurance companies aping the UK system.

This is bad news as there is no requirement, as per the UK system, for an engineers report to be provided before the car goes back on the road, which is utterly insane.

Cartell can't provide any more info on the nature of the write off but said someone working in the industry would be able check it up, any volunteers?

It's niggling with me as the car is exactly what I've been looking for and more, any other motor and I'd be long gone by now!

dar83

As a Cat C write off, it's worth approx. 60% of what the similar year and models are going for on the open market. Bear that in mind before you buy it, because if you buy it at an inflated price compared to that, you instantly have a chunk of depreciation on something that really has by now taken it's major hit from it already.

I was in a similar situation to you a while back, drove the car, seemed fine, everything looked in order but Cartell came back as a Cat C. Approached the seller with this info and he denied any knowledge of it etc... Car was up for 9.5k at the time. As it was seemingly ok, I offered him 6k for it. He didn't bite, but looking back now I'm glad he didn't. It's not worth the constant niggle in the back of your head for any substantial amount of money.

If you get it for a knock down price and around about what it's actually worth now, then it may be worth the gamble.

lynchie

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

This is bad news as there is no requirement, as per the UK system, for an engineers report to be provided before the car goes back on the road, which is utterly insane.

I had another driver rear-end me to the extent her insurance company wrote off my car. I got it fixed for a fraction of the cost but my own insurance company (123.ie/rsa) refused to insure the vehicle again without a certified engineers report that the car was roadworthy.

Rowley Birkin QC

lynchie wrote: »

I had another driver rear-end me to the extent her insurance company wrote off my car. I got it fixed for a fraction of the cost but my own insurance company (123.ie/rsa) refused to insure the vehicle again without a certified engineers report that the car was roadworthy.

Curiouser and curiouser. If there's no formal system how did they know?!!!

Cartell seem to be a dead end at this stage, any other way to find out more about it?

oregano

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Curiouser and curiouser. If there's no formal system how did they know?!!!

Cartell seem to be a dead end at this stage, any other way to find out more about it?

I assume you've asked for a quote from your own insurer? Due to its past they may not even insure you on this particular car.

Rowley Birkin QC

oregano wrote: »

I assume you've asked for a quote from your own insurer? Due to its past they may not even insure you on this particular car.

Yeah, they will quote me alrite and it seems in line with what the figure should be.

My gut is to walk away. I asked the guy for some time to get the specialist to look at the car and he said he had two other people lined up to buy the car without doing that.

Fizman

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Yeah, they will quote me alrite and it seems in line with what the figure should be.

My gut is to walk away. I asked the guy for some time to get the specialist to look at the car and he said he had two other people lined up to buy the car without doing that.

Then let them buy it. Go with your gut, if it doesn't feel right, it more than likely isn't. You'd never forgive yourself if something went pear shaped.

Rowley Birkin QC

Fizman wrote: »

Then let them buy it. Go with your gut, if it doesn't feel right, it more than likely isn't. You'd never forgive yourself if something went pear shaped.

Yup. I have sent the seller the Cartell report at this stage and told him that he's free to sell it to anyone else but that I am still interested subject to a BMW specialist going through it in detail and giving me a report to that effect.

I had a car deemed an economical write off when I was in college due to a big dent in the a rear wing so I know that it might not be a big deal. However, until I know for certain, it's not my problem!

locked up

Fizman wrote: »

Then let them buy it. Go with your gut, if it doesn't feel right, it more than likely isn't. You'd never forgive yourself if something went pear shaped.

+1000000

only yesterday i myself looked at a car in wicklow that was exactly what i wanted! my heart was saying 'buy' but my head was saying 'nooooo'!

did a cartell report and car came back as being clocked....a lot!!


go with your gut and keep looking!

Senna

Could a CAT C be water damage (flooding), car might seem fine and inspection might be come back ok, but wiring could give bother later on?

Bearcat

Lots more fish in the sea op

Motorcheck

If you had a Motorcheck report for the car I'd be able to check into the damage caused....

Rowley Birkin QC

Motorcheck wrote: »

If you had a Motorcheck report for the car I'd be able to check into the damage caused....

Cartell told me that they couldn't pull up the details for what actually happened due to data protection issues which left me with more questions than answers.

PM sent though. This is the first I've heard of Motorcheck, will go with you next time!

Motorcheck

Some info gone back to you on a PM. Mileage mightn't have been as good as you thought!

dharn

it looks like walk away time:(

goz83

CAT C needs engineers report before car will be insured again. There may not have been more than a broken headlamp and bumper scuffs, but you never know. I had an FTO written off last year when it was rear ended. The other insurance company wrote it off due to uneco repair. Got it fixed for much less than originally quoted, thanks to a chance encounter with a Polish guy. Car was sorted and was better than before the accident. I only had to take the offer, less the scrappage offer. I walked away with money on top.

Rowley Birkin QC

dharn wrote: »

it looks like walk away time:(

Walked away, car has been sold to someone else. Still on the lookout.

goz83 wrote: »

CAT C needs engineers report before car will be insured again. There may not have been more than a broken headlamp and bumper scuffs, but you never know. I had an FTO written off last year when it was rear ended. The other insurance company wrote it off due to uneco repair. Got it fixed for much less than originally quoted, thanks to a chance encounter with a Polish guy. Car was sorted and was better than before the accident. I only had to take the offer, less the scrappage offer. I walked away with money on top.

Open to correction, but this seems to only apply in the UK as we don't have a formal classification system.

Anyway, Motorcheck was kind enough to look into it a bit further for me and it seems as though I was right to walk away. I'll be using them next time.around.

dharn

so cartell is a waste of money by the looks of that

lynchie

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Open to correction, but this seems to only apply in the UK as we don't have a formal classification system.

Well when my car was wrote off by other insurance company, I had to inform my own insurance company of the fact. Think its covered under material change or something like that in the policy. They informed me that I was no longer insured on the vehicle once it was deemed a write off unless I could supply an engineers report to certify road-worthiness.

goz83

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Walked away, car has been sold to someone else. Still on the lookout.



Open to correction, but this seems to only apply in the UK as we don't have a formal classification system.

Anyway, Motorcheck was kind enough to look into it a bit further for me and it seems as though I was right to walk away. I'll be using them next time.around.

It's the insurers here who are running the show, formal, or not. If some eijet gets your car written off, then you're not insured until you get an engineers report to state that the car is road worthy. Oh the cost of that report wasn't covered in the claim I made. Sneaky *************