Head Injuries and rugby

Shelflife

There has been alot of talk about this lately but it seems to me little action.

On sat we had Healy out cold on the pitch and he returned after 5 mins and we had Ryan having to be led off the pitch and he too returned after 5 mins.

Now i realise that the players were independently assessed but surely if a player has been knocked out or is in such a daze that they have to be led off the pitch then best practise would dictate that they remain off.

From my limited reading of the subject, the major damage is done when a second collision or concussion occurs shortly after the first.

I recently reffed a game (u15) and stopped the game due to a clash of heads , both players were deemed fit to return by their managers, at the next lineout i noticed one of them was clearly struggling. Now at this stage 6mins to go and the game beyond redemption and subs on the bench why in the world wasnt he taken off?

I asked for his removal and asked that they keep an eye on him after the game as well.

Having suffered a mild concussion during a game myself I can attest that you offer only a fraction of what you are capable of so even from that pov you should be removed from the pitch.

razorblunt

Yes, I've often wondered the same myself as to how this system works. I remember SOB had a run of getting bad looking head knocks for a few games in a row and was left on (this was before the temp sub rule). You'd like to put faith in the medical team that they know what they are doing though.

Dravokivich

Not sure if this is true, so take it for what it's worth yourselves.

I've read a bit previously where pros do cognitive tests pre-season, so when they are suspected of having a concussion, they are tested again and compaired against their pre-season results.

Easily gotten around by making sure your pre-season test is low enough to get around when concussed during the season. Don't really know if they've got requirements for the initial testing to pass through.

It sounds shocking to me that a manager for a youth team didn't seem to take it as seriously.

irishbucsfan

I've suffered pretty bad knocks while playing and played some of the best rugby of my life. The best game I ever played I was in a bit of a daze for most of it. So I don't agree with you when you say you offer only a fraction what you're capable of. Absolutely though there is no way anyone should be allowed to play if they're showing symptoms of a concussion.

The doctors on the sidelines are looking out for the players, their health is their top priority. Its not like Declan Kidney must walks up and looks at them and says "he'll be grand." If either of those players was concussed the doctors would have flagged it up. And considering its their medical career on the line if they're caught lying I can't believe there is a practice of allowing players to play on when symptoms are evident on the sideline. I don't accept for a second that Healy or Ryan are carrying concussions currently.

I think it's something that definitely has to be strictly enforced at amateur and semi-pro level though. You can get away with playing through concussions (especially when a team has young physios that the players can dictate to) at that level. The problem is everyone is aware how serious it is, but in the heat of the moment the only thing that matters to you is the match. At professional levels the players have to try a lot harder to fool the medical staff, as Jackman mentioned in his book.

It's great that the IRB have implemented the temporary replacement policy. The issue is in the hands of the doctors now and we can only trust them to do what's right (or risk having their life ruined like the Quins doctor).

postitnote

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/sports/rugby/24iht-rugby24.html?pagewanted=all

Interesting article here on head injuries etc.

I saw something similar on rugbydump.com but can't seem to find the link.

There's also a video floating around done by (I think) TV3NZ on this fella.

"The 35-year-old former New Zealand, Blues and Auckland scrum-half was forced to retire from rugby in 2007 because of repeated concussions.

In the years afterward, Devine suffered almost constant migraines, fatigue, an aversion to bright lights and noise, and bouts of depression. "

http://youtu.be/2efUH-VWPyE

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2efUH-VWPyE&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Jawgap

I generally carry the SCAT II Pocket Guide (in my pocket!) when I ref / coach - if I'm not happy with a player, then off he goes - only once have I ever had to order a player off because of suspected concussion as nearly every coach I've come across has been quite responsible in that regard.

I think the IRB are looking at what's happening in the NFL and they are almost paranoid now, which would lead me to believe that players are taken off quickly and only allowed to return if a doctor examines them and passes them fit.

RuggieBear

i gave up playing mainly due to concussion. I was probably knocked out at least a dozen times over the years but suffered many more significant blows to the head. The headaches and the light sensitivity are nasty short term affects but i'm scared ****less by the longterm ones...some of the stuff the NFL research is coming out with is chilling.

It was watching a program on Muhammad Ali scared me into thinking about what state i'd be in later in life if i suffered anymore head injuries...

Jawgap

I think it might be worth bearing in mind that a lot of the NFL research is being driven by the litigation - the truth is probably somewhere in between the two positions.

When I played I only ever had one 'proper' concussion and it was scary as f&ck!!

Losty Dublin

OP, the Law book allows you to order a player off if you consider them unfit to play. It is ultimately you who makes the call and you alone; if you aren't happy with a players medical condition then they have to leave the pitch. By all means you may take on board the advice of medical staff but few games will have such a luxury on hand . Even if they claim to be qualified medics, you can't be sure if they are competent or not so you are best to err on the side of caution and take them off.

Ardillaun

Jawgap wrote: »

I think it might be worth bearing in mind that a lot of the NFL research is being driven by the litigation - the truth is probably somewhere in between the two positions.

When I played I only ever had one 'proper' concussion and it was scary as f&ck!!

It is also driven by the results of autopsies in Boston on former football players and hockey players. I wonder is there any proposal for a pathology department to do something similar on former rugby players in Europe?

Hazys

Suffering a 2nd concussion while still suffering from the 1st concussion can be devastating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-impact_syndrome

Its incredibly important that the proper precautions are taken when a player gets a concussion or suspected concussion.

Shelflife

Hazys wrote: »

Suffering a 2nd concussion while still suffering from the 1st concussion can be devastating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-impact_syndrome

Its incredibly important that the proper precautions are taken when a player gets a concussion or suspected concussion.

This is what im getting at, do you suffer concussion with a knock out as in healys case or as in the case of ryan where he had to be led off the pitch. We also had it in the gio aplen case where he caught an elbow and crumpled to the ground.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/07/2697/gio-aplon-knocked-out-with-brutal-elbow-from-teammate

he too recieved attention and continued playing.

I just feel that if you lose conciousness then your game should be over for that day.

Do they s they till have the 30 day holiday if they are found to be concussed?

thomond2006

The latest side effects of a head injury, Bradley Davies can't remember Thursday to Saturday. :eek:

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_8292511,00.html