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Catholic gentry in 1800's

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  • 11-11-2012 5:58pm
    #1
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭


    Just wondering if anyone has an information on this?

    From researching my family tree it turns out they were 'gentry' in the 1830's. I know this from reading various newspapers where they were listed as local gentry.

    However, they were also baptised and married in Catholic Churches.
    So, seeing as this is not long after the Penal Laws, how would it be possible to be Catholic and gentry?! I thought all gentry during this era would have been Protestant!

    Would anyone know how or why Catholics became gentry in the early nineteenth century? Thanks


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    #2
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Daniel O'Connell would have been of that era, Catholic and gentry.It wasn't that unusual,to be honest.


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    #3
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Daniel O'Connell would have been of that era, Catholic and gentry.It wasn't that unusual,to be honest.
    Oh. I thought all their land was taken from them during the penal times? Do you know any websites or books I could read up some more please? Just interested in it!


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    #4
    Simarillion
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Simarillion


    I don't know any specific books written about the Catholic gentry in Ireland, but there were plenty of them. You just need to know which families you're looking at.

    The Plunketts were one of the leading Catholic landowners in the country, they included the Earl of Fingall. They managed to hold onto their land during Penal times when another Plunkett, Lord Dunsany, converted to CofI took posession of all the lands from his Catholic relatives and then handed it back to them when the rules had relaxed.

    The Viscounts Gormanston have always been RC
    Edward Martyn from Tulira Castle
    The Moores of Moore Hall

    Just to name a few


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    #5
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Read up on squireens. Quite a lot of the lesser gentry were Catholics. It wasn't unknown for an absentee landlord, usually Protestant, to let largish parts of his estates to locally-based people, who could be Catholic, and they in turn would sublet to tenant farmers. Since they didn't own their own land they were, arguably, not technically "gentry", but since they lived of rents and usually lived in some style in largish houses they filled the role of local gentry, especially as the landlord was absentee.


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    #6
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    Some very interesting replies here. Many thanks!
    Yes I think they were likely squireens. They didn't live in huge houses but large ones in comparison to the rest of the townland.
    Going to try read up more now. Many thanks again.


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    #7
    convert
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭convert


    It's certainly not unusual for a gentry family to be Catholic. Contrary to the yarns we were spun in primary school, not all Catholics lost their land under the Penal Laws. It was never illegal for Catholics to own land, but they were severely restricted in business transactions regarding land - e.g. leases less than 31 years, prohibited from purchasing land, and subdivision of land amongst sons.

    Karen Harvey has a good book on the Bellews of Mount Bellew, and there was a journal published by the Eighteenth-Century Ireland Society which addressed many alternative themes relating to the Penal Laws (New Perspectives on the Penal Laws). The introduction, in particular, is excellent and will give you a good introduction (no pun intended) to the issue of Catholics under Penal Laws.


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    #8
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    convert wrote: »
    It's certainly not unusual for a gentry family to be Catholic. Contrary to the yarns we were spun in primary school, not all Catholics lost their land under the Penal Laws. It was never illegal for Catholics to own land, but they were severely restricted in business transactions regarding land - e.g. leases less than 31 years, prohibited from purchasing land, and subdivision of land amongst sons.

    Karen Harvey has a good book on the Bellews of Mount Bellew, and there was a journal published by the Eighteenth-Century Ireland Society which addressed many alternative themes relating to the Penal Laws (New Perspectives on the Penal Laws). The introduction, in particular, is excellent and will give you a good introduction (no pun intended) to the issue of Catholics under Penal Laws.


    Thanks very much. I'll try get hold of those publications. Appreciate that.


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