Go through red light on a junction or block fire brigade?

arleitiss

Hey, so long story short: If you are given choice:
1) Block fire brigade that's rushing to a fire (has sirens on) but don't break red light if you are turning left.

2) Don't block fire brigade, let them through but going through red and turning left?

I picked 2nd choice today, it was two lanes, I was in left lane and about to turn left but it was red light. I was first in traffic queue. A long queue on right lane and no cars behind me hence the fire brigade I assume chose the left lane to go through. I had a trees and high kerb on my left so I couldn't drive onto pavement or anything, so I checked right side quickly, saw no cars and went through and fire brigade went through. Wasn't sure what to do in such case.

I just thought that's a better choice because I saw same situation today morning when ambulance came up to traffic light and 3 or 4 guys went through red. Which would you consider correct?

TestTransmission

Option 2

arleitiss

TestTransmission wrote: »

Option 2

Can't I get a ticket for going through red? I mean if traffic light had camera (not sure if did) or would they see that I had a reason.

Voodoomelon

You did the right thing. Sitting still at a red light whilst an emergency vehicle is sitting behind is idiocy.

Wait til the road is clear and let them out, always.

unkel

arleitiss wrote: »

Can't I get a ticket for going through red?

You could of course get a ticket for that.

What's important though is that you did the right thing. Doing the right thing is not always the same thing as doing what's within the law. Fair play to you, sir

Edit - that melon beat me to it again :cool:

Voodoomelon

Always a minute behind!

arleitiss

The weird thing was:
Just 200 metres from that place I got flashed by a van. It was just a white wan saying Garda and no typical speed cam markings. Yet I was just 100% sure I wasn't speeding I was driving at around 50 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. I suppose I could've been driving at 55 km/h under an adrenaline rush for going through red (not used to going through red tbh). But I had one car in front of me, and 1 behind, it flashed when I was nearly in one line with speed van, would you say it was flashed to me? I was literally in pretty much one line with speed van when it flashed. What's the usual distance they flash at? Makes me paranoid now thinking that they saw that on camera and just took photo of car as evidence that I went through
Guess no way to check other than wait.

Marcin_diy

I think you would get ticket quicker for not letting fire brigade go when they are in rush then entering junction on red light.

Mc Love

Wasnt there a video on here recently enough of a car not letting an ambulance through at newlands cross? You did the right thing OP and if you see the video I am talking about, you will be shocked!

djimi

You get out of the way of emergency service vehicles in any way you can that does not pose a direct threat to your safety or the safety of others.

No Garda in the land will prosecute you for moving out of the way of a fire engine.

tuxy

Most guards are fine but there are a few bad eggs of course. Even the bad ones would not try to prosecute you for option 2.

Mr Simpson

arleitiss wrote: »

The weird thing was:
Just 200 metres from that place I got flashed by a van. It was just a white wan saying Garda and no typical speed cam markings. Yet I was just 100% sure I wasn't speeding I was driving at around 50 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. I suppose I could've been driving at 55 km/h under an adrenaline rush for going through red (not used to going through red tbh). But I had one car in front of me, and 1 behind, it flashed when I was nearly in one line with speed van, would you say it was flashed to me? I was literally in pretty much one line with speed van when it flashed. What's the usual distance they flash at? Makes me paranoid now thinking that they saw that on camera and just took photo of car as evidence that I went through
Guess no way to check other than wait.

Thats a Garda Speed Camera Van, its not connected to traffic lights. Theres only one or two red light cameras at the moment, they're at junctions with the red line luas.

ED E

OP I'm pretty sure any gard will let you off breaking a light if its to allow an emergency vehicle through, even the nastiest one on the force.

Marcusm

Marcin_diy wrote: »

I think you would get ticket quicker for not letting fire brigade go when they are in rush then entering junction on red light.

There is no contravention of the law by not breaking the light; however, the OP has broken the law by breaking the red light. He/she did the right thing by doug so (provided precautions were taken) but in the eyes of the law (rather than the Gardai) this is not a valid excuse.

EvannJS

Easy...if its safe...get out of the way. !!!

arleitiss wrote: »

Hey, so long story short: If you are given choice:
1) Block fire brigade that's rushing to a fire (has sirens on) but don't break red light if you are turning left.

2) Don't block fire brigade, let them through but going through red and turning left?

I picked 2nd choice today, it was two lanes, I was in left lane and about to turn left but it was red light. I was first in traffic queue. A long queue on right lane and no cars behind me hence the fire brigade I assume chose the left lane to go through. I had a trees and high kerb on my left so I couldn't drive onto pavement or anything, so I checked right side quickly, saw no cars and went through and fire brigade went through. Wasn't sure what to do in such case.

I just thought that's a better choice because I saw same situation today morning when ambulance came up to traffic light and 3 or 4 guys went through red. Which would you consider correct?

Armin_Tamzarian

Marcin_diy wrote: »

I think you would get ticket quicker for not letting fire brigade go when they are in rush then entering junction on red light.

Really?
I've never heard of someone getting a ticket for this.

OP, you clearly did the right thing.
There's nothing wrong with breaking traffic laws if there's a genuine need to do so and it's safe to do so.

S28382

Yeah you definitely did the right thing i was at a very busy roundabout recently when an ambulance was coming up behind me with the sirens going and i had to drive up onto the traffic island to get out of the way and it was crazy the amount of cars that tried to get around the roundabout just as the ambulance was making its way onto it

Bruthal

Mc Love wrote: »

Wasnt there a video on here recently enough of a car not letting an ambulance through at newlands cross? You did the right thing OP and if you see the video I am talking about, you will be shocked!

Yes there was, and no shortage of the clueless drivers on that thread either, saying the driver could not avoid blocking the ambulance.

ScouseMouse

You did right! Get the hell out of the way, in a safe manner. No sane cop in Ireland would have a problem with that.

I have driven up onto the grass verge at times to let them through.

Fire Bridage vehicles can answer heart attacks, floods, fires, crashes and more. If it was you or yours, you would appreciate priority for them.

Up in Donegal Town a few years back, a guard brought up an engine driver for driving the wrong way around the diamond at 4am. He took the shortest route.

The guard must have been on something ! The judge threw it, and him, out of court with a flea in his ear.

Bruthal

superscouse wrote: »

Up in Donegal Town a few years back, a guard brought up an engine driver for driving the wrong way around the diamond at 4am. He took the shortest route.

The guard must have been on something ! The judge threw it, and him, out of court with a flea in his ear.

I wonder would the guard have done that, had his house been the destination of the engine.

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

You could of course get a ticket for that.

What's important though is that you did the right thing. Doing the right thing is not always the same thing as doing what's within the law. Fair play to you, sir

Some heads exploded thanks to that comment..
There are many here that openly claim the law is their moral compass, you "cant" do the right thing and technically break the law.

Henry Ford III

What did your qualified driver suggest you do OP?

frankled

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yes there was, and no shortage of the clueless drivers on that thread either, saying the driver could not avoid blocking the ambulance.

Yeah I was involved in that argument, the amount of people that thought the driver had no choice but to block it was scary.

eringobragh

Cormie posted up one a while ago , some cabbage wouldn't move out of the way of the ambulance At new lands cross

Edit beaten to it!

Bruthal

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What did your qualified driver suggest you do OP?

Im fairly sure some qualified drivers would advise sitting there, and not break the red light law

Bruthal

bluewolf wrote: »

Your qualified driver would have been able to advise you properly on this at the time.

So every incompetent driver seen on the road is unqualified then?

Bruthal

bluewolf wrote: »

This OP is unqualified, refuses to drive accompanied, and posts new threads all the time asking what do I do when...
So no, not every driver, just this one. That's the use of having an accompanying driver.

FWIW I would break the light in this case

I know what you are saying. But the driver did the right thing. Its possible that an accompanying qualified driver may have advised the wrong thing. Im not saying its a bad thing having one of course.

So im not saying having an accompanying driver is no use. An accompanying experienced driver can be helpful to any other driver at times imo, whether the person driving is qualified or not.

Bruthal

frankled wrote: »

Yeah I was involved in that argument, the amount of people that thought the driver had no choice but to block it was scary.

Yes, there are many that believe when they cant do something, that no one else can either.

arleitiss

As surprising it may sound, I had a qualified driver with me, it was my friend, he has his license almost for two years, it will be two years in about a month, but he was sitting in back and his phrase was: "**** IT, just go!". Which didn't sound too assuring hence I am asking here.

djimi

In fairness, would common sense not just dictate that you get the hell out of the way of an emergency services vehicle? Seriously, why does this question even need asking? Do you think you are supposed to sit there and block a fire engine?

Armin_Tamzarian

bluewolf wrote: »

This OP is unqualified, refuses to drive accompanied, and posts new threads all the time asking what do I do when...
So no, not every driver, just this one. That's the use of having an accompanying driver.

Well, at least they are seeking advice to improve their driving.

magnavox

While were're on the subject I'd like to commend a nice bit of driving I saw last Friday evening at the Sandyford roundabout to get onto the M50 northbound.

Was at the lights and saw an ambulance and car ambulance approaching from the left. (Their que was directly in front of me) I was sitting there and got to observe all the drivers terrible reactions. Most of them appeared to freeze on their sudden appearance, hence them having a hard time getting through.

That is until a black Quattroporte took it upon himself to change out of his lane from back in the que into the empty inside lane, hence giving the ambulance a gap to follow him. He then booted it to the top of the que before carefully running the red light at the top allowing the ambulance on its way.

A piece of simple, observant and considerate driving which restored my faith in humanity a little bit. Nice car too

djimi

If the left hand lane was empty why did the ambulance need the Maserati to go ahead of him?

Bruthal

magnavox wrote: »

A piece of simple, observant and considerate driving which restored my faith in humanity a little bit.

That`s not so much a display of humanity though, as competency. I`m sure no driver wants to deliberately block an ambulance.

Its simply a display that not everyone is too thick to competently drive/use common sense.

_Kaiser_

djimi wrote: »

If the left hand lane was empty why did the ambulance need the Maserati to go ahead of him?

I read it as there being no room for the ambulance to get into the left lane until the Maserati (which was in front of the ambulance) moved into it himself and thus the ambulance could follow to the top of the queue/lights and beyond

djimi

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I read it as there being no room for the ambulance to get into the left lane until the Maserati (which was in front of the ambulance) moved into it himself and thus the ambulance could follow to the top of the queue/lights and beyond

Ah okay that makes sense. Ambulance in the right hand lane, Maserati in middle moves in to create a gap to let ambulance through to left hand lane?

Gael23

If you do get a fine, let it go to court and it will be thrown out in seconds.

Armin_Tamzarian

magnavox wrote: »

Ambulance and car ambulance approaching from the left.

Nope, I've still confused.
I think we need a diagram.

_Kaiser_

djimi wrote: »

Ah okay that makes sense. Ambulance in the right hand lane, Maserati in middle moves in to create a gap to let ambulance through to left hand lane?

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Nope, I've still confused.
I think we need a diagram.

Dodgy Paint effort.... Maserati in black, Ambulance is Red

Armin_Tamzarian

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Dodgy Paint effort.... Maserati in black, Ambulance is Red

Damn, that was quick.
Makes perfect sense now, thanks.
Quick thinking by the driver right enough.

ABajaninCork

I did this once in London. Was at the lights. Police van comes up the road (this was at Kennington Lane, if anyone knows the area). No room to get through, so had to go through the lights (turning left) to let van pass.

I got done for going through a red light. £80 fine and 3 points, even though I asked them to review the CCTV.

Would I do this again? HELL, NO!! **** 'em.

Higgsie

While it might be viewed as the thing to do you are not obliged to move out of the way. If you do and break the law you are liable for prosecution and that also incudes if you cause an accident as a result of your actions. If you damage your car in the process then it's your own fault and you'll pay for the damage.

Bruthal

Higgsie wrote: »

While it might be viewed as the thing to do you are not obliged to move out of the way. If you do and break the law you are liable for prosecution and that also incudes if you cause an accident as a result of your actions. If you damage your car in the process then it's your own fault and you'll pay for the damage.

Would you move?

djimi

Higgsie wrote: »

While it might be viewed as the thing to do you are not obliged to move out of the way. If you do and break the law you are liable for prosecution and that also incudes if you cause an accident as a result of your actions. If you damage your car in the process then it's your own fault and you'll pay for the damage.

Legally obliged - no.

Morally obliged - yes.

If an ambulance/fire engine is coming up behind you at speed then the person who has called them is the only priority. You do not come into it; you do whatever it takes to get the hell out of their way (so long as it doesnt put your safety or the safety of others in excessive risk).

Armin_Tamzarian

djimi wrote: »

Legally obliged - no.

Morally obliged - yes.

If an ambulance/fire engine is coming up behind you at speed then the person who has called them is the only priority. You do not come into it; you do whatever it takes to get the hell out of their way (so long as it doesnt put your safety or the safety of others in excessive risk).

Exactly, in such a circumstance who gives a fcuk about the rules of the road.
Safely getting out of the way should be your only concern.

magnavox

robbie7730 wrote: »

That`s not so much a display of humanity though, as competency. I`m sure no driver wants to deliberately block an ambulance.

Its simply a display that not everyone is too thick to competently drive/use common sense.

Sorry that's what I meant, as in that some people out there still have their wits about them.


Also here's what how it went down to clear up confusion.

Higgsie

I move each and everytime, was just pointing out the legal side of it.

arleitiss

So if it wasn't an evening time, it was quite a busy junction and luckly there was no cars coming from right, if I moved out and caused an accident involving 2 or more cars, I would get fully prosecuted same as going through red without having an emergency vehicle behind? and my insurance would boost up bad high too? that's pretty ****.

lucernarian

arleitiss wrote: »

So if it wasn't an evening time, it was quite a busy junction and luckly there was no cars coming from right, if I moved out and caused an accident involving 2 or more cars, I would get fully prosecuted same as going through red without having an emergency vehicle behind? and my insurance would boost up bad high too? that's pretty ****.

That's similar to what I'm about to ask, what would happen if an accident was hypothetically caused by moving out of the way? More than likely it would be a bumper lost and nothing more but how would the insurance claim work?

I have a feeling insurance companies are utter tossers and wouldn't care what the reason was for moving through the red light signal

Higgsie

It's not that you would and as has been said before it would want to be a fairly nasty cop to do you for it but potentially you could. I would imagine it would have to be a fair bit more than a fender bender.

Capt'n Midnight

Mc Love wrote: »

Wasnt there a video on here recently enough of a car not letting an ambulance through at newlands cross? You did the right thing OP and if you see the video I am talking about, you will be shocked!

During the boom , EVERY SINGLE F***KER IN THE BUS LANE was blocking the Fire engines and ambulances. The number of times I saw ESV's going down the wrong side of the carraige way :mad:

Just a monument to selfishness. The sirens were common enough that a regular commuter using the bus lane has no excuse for their behaviour.


As to the original question, make 110% certain that you don't pull out into traffic. You having an collision will just divert the emergency services even further. ( Is it true that there is just one Fire Service Ambulance for most of Dublin South West ? )

Most people pull in when they hear sirens, have a quick look before you do, it might be better for you to drive on through the roundabout or traffic calming to a place where you can be more easily overtaken.