Childrens Referendum - A Reminder To Vote

Sully

A quick reminder folks that there is a referendum taking place today since 9am on the issue of Childrens Rights. The proposed changes to the Constitution concern the rights of children. This has been on the cards for a number of years and is finally being put to the Irish electorate today by the current government.

Sadly, turnout is extremely low so far across Ireland despite it being a Saturday. There has been numerous calls for polling on Saturday, so its a bit weird not to see a significant boost on numbers. In addition, people always seem to complain that the government ignore them and they get no say in how this country is run. Yet we are being asked to make a choice on such an important topic and turnout is shockingly low.

Have Your Say. Vote before 10pm on the Childrens Referendum in your local polling station. Be sure to bring your ID with you and polling card if you have one.

For information on what proposals are being put forward, than I suggest reading the independent and neutral Referendum Commissions Guide. This is separate to the governments own guide. Link: http://www.referendum2012.ie/

Thanks.

rasper

Do hope people bother to vote , however most people I know were very undecided so I'd expect them not to vote even though I wouldn't agree with that move.
We voted already and were very much against handing over anymore power to an unaccountable and incompetent state

wmpdd3

Anyone a generation older than me seems to have no interest. It was very quite in the polling station today compared to the fiscal treaty one, there's reports of 20% turn out.

Elfinknight

rasper wrote: »

Do hope people bother to vote , however most people I know were very undecided so I'd expect them not to vote even though I wouldn't agree with that move.
We voted already and were very much against handing over anymore power to an unaccountable and incompetent state

I always maintain that if you are undecided or unsure that you should vote no. Especialy if it is because of a lack of information.
Tha way, the status qou is kept until the government comes back with the relevent information and asks us to vote again.

looksee

Elfinknight wrote: »

I always maintain that if you are undecided or unsure that you should vote no. Especialy if it is because of a lack of information.
Tha way, the status qou is kept until the government comes back with the relevent information and asks us to vote again.

I understand and agree with that attitude, but today, for the first time ever, I have not voted. Cop-out? maybe, but that's how I feel about it.

mccarthy37

The low turnout is a clear signal to this government that the people of this country have lost faith in them completely.
I wonder will they ever have the referendum they promised on scraping the Seanad. I bet the turnout would rise dramatically to get rid of this greatest waste of money but than again their probably thinking that when they loose their seats as TD's they can always fall back on the hot air chamber.

Sully

People should get up of their lazy backside and vote. Shouldn't matter what the issue is. Especially on such an important issue. Other countries are killing each other for this very right and yet we don't seem bothered?! The mind boggles.

There is a great event that happens every four years or so and its called a General Election. Use that polling day to voice your anger and disappointment with government and not other important completely unrelated issues. Playing politics with kids livelihoods? For **** sake, get a grip people.

honeybadger

i voted no anyways ,,

tankbarry

I also voted no. How can anybody trust this government to protect our children when we can't trust them on absolutely anything now.

Wanderer2010

As an aside, how do the people who take your polling cards get the job? I see the same old faces every single time there is an election. I heard they get about 500euro for the day and I presume these people are either teachers/civil servants or else daughters/sons of same because a lot of them are young enough and I never see these jobs advertised. God forbid we would give some of our unemployed a chance to make a few bob for a day, the work isnt exactly rocket science..the Irish closed book system, dont you love it...:rolleyes:

Sully

You can apply, but they generally use the same people for years. For as long as I can remember, up until this referendum anyway, it was the same staff at my box. Its a job for life, basically. You apply for the job to the Returning Officer for your county which is the County Registrar who is usually based in the Circuit Court Office. Your name will then be added onto the list if you are suitable and you can be called if someone is unavailable to attend. Sometimes I believe if the clerk cannot attend, he will nominate someone to replace him.

Money is €400 pre tax. Remember when the polling station opens at 9am, you cant leave the building until after polling closes probably about 10.30 by the time you have everything ready to go. The clerk in my polling station had her dinner there and had tea/coffee in a flask. Its not suitable for the unemployed because you need to sign off, do the election, then sign back on again. There are a number of reports online of people who did this and their payments were messed up as a result.

As with any referendum, people are clearly clueless as to what its all about. People were linking abortion and fathers rights to this referendum which its nothing to do with. The state already has constitutional rights to protect the children and take them from parents care - but this strengthens these rules including giving the kids a voice to say. Its got nothing to do with the competence of the government are either because they don't have a role to play in the cases that arise. Its not like Enda & the Cabinet will vote to take Child X away from Home Y and get it wrong because some evil minister wanted to screw the county or whatever!

Wanderer2010

Oh right, 400 pre tax is still great for a long days work. I know the same old heads are down in my local polling station, some of them seem to be in their mid-20s, I imagine they got the job when some teacher who was at it years stepped aside or retired, they are definitely not people who just applied and got the job no questions asked. Helps when you know someone for sure.

There were hardly any people voting y/day when i was there and that was aobut 6pm.

Sully

There is a list, you can go on the list and you may be lucky. Numerous reports online of people getting the job this way and numerous reports of people getting the job 'for life' until they leave. This is why its hard to get selected - because those that are there have the job for every vote in the future unless they have to leave and its called from the list or nominated. Its longer working hours than most people do in a day with no breaks.

Wanderer2010

Yeah but for that money i would put up with it no hassle, in fact most people would. I must look into this list and apply, wont hold my breath though.

Gael23

Is there any indication of turnout in Waterford? Its likely to be passed here with 56/44 in favour of yes

Finnbar01

Sully wrote: »

As with any referendum, people are clearly clueless as to what its all about. People were linking abortion and fathers rights to this referendum which its nothing to do with. The state already has constitutional rights to protect the children and take them from parents care - but this strengthens these rules including giving the kids a voice to say. Its got nothing to do with the competence of the government are either because they don't have a role to play in the cases that arise. Its not like Enda & the Cabinet will vote to take Child X away from Home Y and get it wrong because some evil minister wanted to screw the county or whatever!

Government ministers don't have to be evil nor even try that hard to screw the country. Look at our present mess.

To actually give the state my power and control over the family is wandering into dangerous territory.

Sully

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Government ministers don't have to be evil nor even try that hard to screw the country. Look at our present mess.

To actually give the state my power and control over the family is wandering into dangerous territory.

Yes but the government are implementing policies of this measure directly. But they wont be doing so in the case of children.

That's my point. People cant seem to tell the difference between government legislating and those who implement the legislation through social workers and the courts. Enda & Co have no say over any individual case brought to the state.

Like, a number of people spoiled their vote for "Justice for Sean Quinn" over justice for children!! Even if they voted no they would be giving what they felt was justice for the kids. But instead they wanted to spoil their vote?!

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Playing politics with kids livelihoods? For **** sake, get a grip people.

When it was ruled in the Supreme Court that the Government distorted the referendum - and then hadn't the courtesy to postpone it? And you accuse others of playing politics"?

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

As with any referendum, people are clearly clueless as to what its all about.

FFS. Are you REALLY that naive? Or do you think everyone else is stupid? What a statement! Regarding those manning the polling booths, it should be the reserve of the unemployed. In nine cases out of ten, those manning them don't need the money - with some people taking a day's leave off work to man the booth.

It is absolutely ridiculous when there are so many unemployed in the country.

Wanderer2010

Has anyone actually read the booklet that came to explain the whole process of this referendum? Its written in a confusing and jargonish way to confuse the reader and ultimately leave them wondering what the hell they are voting on. Its not user friendly in the least and taking away the fact that the government thinks the average Irish person is stupid, they obviously dress up the language in such a way as to put even more people off voting!

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

When it was ruled in the Supreme Court that the Government distorted the referendum - and then hadn't the courtesy to postpone it? And you accuse others of playing politics"?

7upfree wrote: »

FFS. Are you REALLY that naive? Or do you think everyone else is stupid? What a statement! Regarding those manning the polling booths, it should be the reserve of the unemployed. In nine cases out of ten, those manning them don't need the money - with some people taking a day's leave off work to man the booth.

It is absolutely ridiculous when there are so many unemployed in the country.

May I introduce you to the multi-quote function. It saves you having to break my posts up bit by bit in separate posts to have an awl rant. See, I am doing it now!

Yes, I believe people buy into bull**** and lies. Yes, I believe some people do not educate themselves enough. Yes, I believe people couldn't be arsed to vote and some of those played politics with it. Sean Quinn has nothing to do with Children. Neither does paying out the bankers. Neither does the austerity measures by the government. Neither does the governments complete failure at times to do their job. All different issues. Yet people wanted to screw the kids by rejecting it. I'v been doing this for a few years now and I can see the way people are thinking when I meet them. Even yesterday, two people gave me reasons why they voted No and it was completely incorrect. One even admitted she didn't research it.

Yes, the government made a completely ****up of the referendum. What's new - its not the first time nor will it be the last. You can look back at various other policy implementations where PR was needed but was a mess; Water Charges & Property Tax. Yes the booklet was biased in some sections. Yes, Minister Shatter and others should have apologised for this - the highest court in the land tells you it was biased, tough cookies.

I would have always taken little notice of what one particular side has to say on the matter as there is always going to be suspicion a hint of bias. The Referendum Commission sole job was to give a neutral perspective and for the second time the government stuck their oar in and ****ed it all up. Yes people want more information but they could just listen to various debates, research it online, look up the referendum commission and see what they have to say on it all. The government should stay well clear of handing out such booklets.

Postpone? No. Why? The people have had plenty of avenues to educate themselves on, this issue has been delayed, postponed, ****ed around the table for years and a minor cockup should not prevent it being postponed. 99% of the Dail were in agreement on this - including Sinn Fein who object to everything. There were plenty of debates and material available to research on and I doubt anybody for one second focused just on the governments material which was only partly biased.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Has anyone actually read the booklet that came to explain the whole process of this referendum? Its written in a confusing and jargonish way to confuse the reader and ultimately leave them wondering what the hell they are voting on. Its not user friendly in the least and taking away the fact that the government thinks the average Irish person is stupid, they obviously dress up the language in such a way as to put even more people off voting!

Which one?

Wanderer2010

Which one? The only one that came through my door, that one. Its filled with jargon and unequal arguments for either the Yes or No vote and leans in a manner which is trying to convince you to vote Yes. Just as the Lisbon Treaty before it, government booklets are useless when trying to convine the public what the issue before them even is. Its not up to the people to trawl through websites to educate themselves, its up to the government to provide an unbiased explanation of the facts and deliver them to you so you can make up your own mind. I would wager that most people didnt vote, not because they wanted to stick it to the government but they didnt have a clue what it was about..

Sully

Waterford has voted in favour of the referendum – Yes 55.95% No 44.05%. Turnout was 35%.

No doubt this will be challenged though, which I think is a good idea. I'm not sure the courts would overturn the result, but it may set better standards in terms of how the government and campaigners communicate with people.

I cant help but feel this was poorly communicated. The political parties (non-government) did very little at all, which was a great shame. The government didn't exactly do a great job either, putting aside the Supreme Court ruling - felt they could have done better. But a particular blame needs to be put on our media - radio, TV, print - for not covering this as much as they should.

The Referendum Commission, as always, did a great job. I would like to see them being allowed run 'Don't forget to vote' throughout the day voting was taking place tho.

Sully

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Which one? The only one that came through my door, that one. Its filled with jargon and unequal arguments for either the Yes or No vote and leans in a manner which is trying to convince you to vote Yes. Just as the Lisbon Treaty before it, government booklets are useless when trying to convine the public what the issue before them even is. Its not up to the people to trawl through websites to educate themselves, its up to the government to provide an unbiased explanation of the facts and deliver them to you so you can make up your own mind. I would wager that most people didnt vote, not because they wanted to stick it to the government but they didnt have a clue what it was about..

There should have been two. A referendum commission (setup by the government, but to remain independent) and the botched one from the government (not supposed to be biased, sections happened to be)

JPA

I can understand somebody voting no because they didn't understand the change but anybody else should be ashamed of themselves.

Potential-Monke

Should i be ashamed of myself for not voting? I have no children, and i never want them (nor do i like them!). I couldn't care less, this referendum doesn't affect me and because of that i didn't vote. Why should i let my vote sway the result when it doesn't apply to me? Was i not better off leaving it to be decided between people who it does affect?

I know loads of people didn't vote because it was poorly advertised, poorly explained and apparently one sided. My brother rang me looking for advice on what to vote. I was the wrong person to be asking and i told him so. But, going by what he said, he researched it for the whole day Friday, online, and by asking the many people he knows who also have children. He couldn't get a straight answer. He didn't come across anyone or anything which gave the facts straight out in easy to understand language. I don't know what he voted, but he was erring on the side of no due to lack of information and the feeling that the Government were pushing for a yes vote.

Some people are not good with referendums, and need it in more simple language. Legal jargon goes way over some peoples head, even the jargon you'd consider simple could be complex to someone who has no understanding or dealings with this kind of information.

JPA

I was saying anyone who voted no while actually understanding the referendum should be ashamed of themselves.

But Potential-Monke even if you don't have children or ever plan to , the referendum was still about children being taken care of so you sound very heartless.

Hoffmans

JPA wrote: »

I was saying anyone who voted no while actually understanding the referendum should be ashamed of themselves.

But Potential-Monke even if you don't have children or ever plan to , the referendum was still about children being taken care of so you sound very heartless.

this is a very sheepish view i doubt you understand he ramifications of this narrow yes vote, hopefully a legal challenge to the result will be successful..

Sully

Hoffmans wrote: »

this is a very sheepish view i doubt you understand he ramifications of this narrow yes vote, hopefully a legal challenge to the result will be successful..

A re-run will increase the Yes sides margin, IMO.

JPA

Hoffmans wrote: »

this is a very sheepish view i doubt you understand he ramifications of this narrow yes vote, hopefully a legal challenge to the result will be successful..

It seems to me the no voters consisted of people who didn't understand it so voted no as a protest, people who voted no to protest the government, people who completely misunderstood it or people influenced by religious bs from the likes of Dana.

I'd like to hear any kind of proper argument from anyone who advocated no.
The constitution is outdated and still influenced by the church, this change was needed.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Yes, I believe people buy into bull**** and lies.

Like Fine Gael.........:D

Finnbar01

Sully wrote: »

That's my point. People cant seem to tell the difference between government legislating and those who implement the legislation through social workers and the courts. Enda & Co have no say over any individual case brought to the state.

That's exactly my worry. It will be unaccountable faceless bureucrats and social workers who will implement this. When it goes wrong, expect wild goose chases.

Cabaal

7upfree wrote: »

In nine cases out of ten, those manning them don't need the money - with some people taking a day's leave off work to man the booth.

.

unless you have some facts and figures to backup such a bull**** claim then with all due respect you are talking out your arse

Wanderer2010

Cabaal wrote: »

unless you have some facts and figures to backup such a bull**** claim then with all due respect you are talking out your arse

I have facts. Almost all of the people manning the stations in 3 of the schools are former/current teachers and the younger ones are daughters/sons of teachers and principals. I spoke to 2 people today who were told in no uncertain terms that you can apply but, like a lot of public servie jobs, they were gone already to people who knew the right people in schools and offices. Why is it so hard to believe that cronyism and nepotism is rife when it comes to handy numbers like that. Dont be so naive, you do live in Ireland too right?

Cabaal

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I have facts. Almost all of the people manning the stations in 3 of the schools are former/current teachers and the younger ones are daughters/sons of teachers and principals. I spoke to 2 people today who were told in no uncertain terms that you can apply but, like a lot of public servie jobs, they were gone already to people who knew the right people in schools and offices. Why is it so hard to believe that cronyism and nepotism is rife when it comes to handy numbers like that. Dont be so naive, you do live in Ireland too right?

How exactly does that equal 9 out of 10?

Just because you've spoken to a few people does not mean the same apply to the entire island of Ireland, as such your post does not equal proper stats and doesn't answer my query

Maybe for once people like yourself can take a step back and stop being so paranoid,

Wanderer2010

I havent interviewed everyone but the system for applying is the same, you join a list and they call you back if interested but i highly doubt that the 3 schools which were practically all manned by former and current teachers are the minority and the rest of the stations were manned by ordinary people who applied for the job and got it easy as that, its all about who you know, sure its the same with the vote counters and heres where i have even more back up- I know of a lot of people who used to work in and for schools and they have a job for life every election. Again, same with the invigilators who supervise state exams.

Im not being paranoid mate, Im just spelling out how it is. In Ireland, its who you know....

AK333

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I havent interviewed everyone but the system for applying is the same, you join a list and they call you back if interested but i highly doubt that the 3 schools which were practically all manned by former and current teachers are the minority and the rest of the stations were manned by ordinary people who applied for the job and got it easy as that, its all about who you know, sure its the same with the vote counters and heres where i have even more back up- I know of a lot of people who used to work in and for schools and they have a job for life every election. Again, same with the invigilators who supervise state exams.

Im not being paranoid mate, Im just spelling out how it is. In Ireland, its who you know....

I'm new to Boards but get annoyed at sour grapes and just had to add something to this thread.

I worked at the referendum yesterday and No
I'm not a teacher
work in the public service

Yes
I am an ordinary person
I'm unemployed (just returned from Australia)
did write to the local returning officer and got a call

Sometimes you can be lucky - I obviously was

its not all cronyism - also, I don't agree that 'if you don't understand, you vote no' attitude.

If you don't understand the issues, you don't vote. IMO you vote your preference WHEN you understand what you are voting for, ie you agree and vote yes, or disagree and vote no. If you haven't a clue, you don't vote. my opinion only

Best of luck to anyone who did vote, and did work at the Referendum - it actually felt really good to be part of changing irish society

Hoffmans

AK333 wrote: »

Best of luck to anyone who did vote, and did work at the Referendum - it actually felt really good to be part of changing irish society

Good for you ,part of meddling in the constuition on the back of a taxpayer sponsored government mis-information campaign...
looking forward to the supreme courts findings being released on the sham.

but not whats ahead of us...
http://www.relocationcampaign.co.uk/4.html

rasper

Can someone please answer that how come since the foundation of state, that the government through different angles had no bother in snatching kids and holding them in paedophile ridd3n industrial schools , turned a blind eye to every abuse committed in our vocational schools.
Yet they ask for more power when they can't/won t account for dead children who were in the care of the hse, how about it gets it's socialworkers to work past 5pm before it earns the right to demand more power
I wouldn't trust our authorities to mind a dog never mind a child

Cabaal

rasper wrote: »

Can someone please answer that how come since the foundation of state, that the government through different angles had no bother in snatching kids and holding them in paedophile ridd3n industrial schools , turned a blind eye to every abuse committed in our vocational schools.

I think you'll find the problems in the past cannot simply be applied to the government in power at the time, it was a failing of our society as a whole.

From the church, government and the average joe on the street who in 9 out of 10 cases woudn't believe that a priest/nun/teacher/uncle/parent etc would do anything like what the kid said.

For decades Irish people looked in aw at the likes of priests and saw them as people that could do no wrong, some still do see them like this and infact I've even spoken to people that still believe that the "victims" made up the abuse claims.

Such a view to us now may seem insane but imagine such a mentality on almost all levels of society up and down the country, add to this religious orders who when they did find out about stuff they moved the cause of the abuse around in an effort to hide them.

Whilst people may prefer to try and blame the government on this one it was our society that failed overall, there are numerous reasons for this including an affective church state.

I wouldn't trust our authorities to mind a dog never mind a child

So who do you trust?, the parents that either allow their kids to be abused or abuse or neglect their kids themselves?
The foster parents who while they have kids in their care they are not caring for them properly?
The single mother or father who is off their heads on drugs/drink on almost a daily basis?

If we do nothing and just turn a blind eye then once again we fail as a society,

If people didn't want the referendum to pass they should have got out and voted, people fight and die worldwide just for the right to vote in the country they live in and as citizens of Ireland one of our duty's is to educate ourselves on matters that need to be voted for and then get out and vote.

If you voted no (as long as this was a educated vote) then thats fine, if you voted yes (again as long as it was educated) then this is also fine. But imho people that vote no or yes blindly without educating themselves fail as citizens of Ireland.

People that don't get out and vote either way should be ashamed of themselves, from my experience these types of people also winge the most about things like the government yet many of them won't even vote in elections.
:rolleyes:

and finally people who voted no as "revenge" on the government for their decisions in general up until now were the biggest fools of all,

The way i see it is sure only approx 30% got out and voted but yes still passed, if the no side wanted more people out voting no nothing stopped them from pushing a campaign but yes I've not seen one No poster or leaflet. You can bet that had 30% got out and voted and no had passed then the no side would not be looking for the decision to be scrapped like they want with the yes vote.

Additionally I find it amusing that people are bitching and moaning saying that the government (FG/Labour) are pushing this as such they don't agree with it....utter nonsense.

In case anyone missed it SF even wanted a yes on this (they also welcomed the yes vote outcome), plus the numerous organizations that supported this including the likes of amnesty international. To claim it was just the government pushing for a yes vote is frankly ignorant and again shows just how paranoid people can be about the government.

Potential-Monke

JPA wrote: »

But Potential-Monke even if you don't have children or ever plan to , the referendum was still about children being taken care of so you sound very heartless.

But it doesn't effect me. I don't like kids. They annoy me. So, in referendum to do with children, i already have a biased view. This referendum should have been (and mostly was) decided by people whom this effects. My vote, either way, would be a joke as i wouldn't have read up on it, i wouldn't have made an educated decision. I left this one to the people who it really matters to.

I do make educated decisions on every referendum that effects me. Just this one had nothing to do with me, nor anything which i care about. Call me heartless, but who am i to judge someone else (in most cases, some cases are straight forward) in their parenting abilities, when i know i'd be shocking at it myself.

To give an extreme example, if there was a referendum on gaming, and making all 18 rated games illegal in Ireland, i wouldn't want anyone who doesn't care about the gaming scene making a vote. I know this would never happen, but it's an attempt at trying to get my point across.

Cabaal

Potential-Monke, any chance you are a teenager or atleast in your early 20's as you certainly sound very much like a self obsessed teenager.

(Note: thankfully not ALL teenagers are self obsessions especially as they get older but alot are and those that are self obsession only care about what affects them.. the same as Potential-Monke).

imho, your view is very short sighted and who's to say you won't have kids in 5, 10, 15 years from now. Then it will affect you. Alot can change in your life. I know plenty of people that said they'd never had kids (both women and men) and later in life their mindset changed.

Sully

Potential-Monke wrote: »

But it doesn't effect me. I don't like kids. They annoy me. So, in referendum to do with children, i already have a biased view. This referendum should have been (and mostly was) decided by people whom this effects. My vote, either way, would be a joke as i wouldn't have read up on it, i wouldn't have made an educated decision. I left this one to the people who it really matters to.

I do make educated decisions on every referendum that effects me. Just this one had nothing to do with me, nor anything which i care about. Call me heartless, but who am i to judge someone else (in most cases, some cases are straight forward) in their parenting abilities, when i know i'd be shocking at it myself.

To give an extreme example, if there was a referendum on gaming, and making all 18 rated games illegal in Ireland, i wouldn't want anyone who doesn't care about the gaming scene making a vote. I know this would never happen, but it's an attempt at trying to get my point across.

Do you not care for your nephews and nieces then? Or about how other children could be treated, regardless of your connection to them or not? If you saw a child being beaten by her parents, abused and so on - would you shrug and say "Nothing to do with me, I don't like kids. There annoying." ?

Finnbar01

From the church, government and the average joe on the street who in 9 out of 10 cases woudn't believe that a priest/nun/teacher/uncle/parent etc would do anything like what the kid said.

That’s not correct, thousands of complaints were made to the authorities and they still refused to act.

For decades Irish people looked in aw at the likes of priests and saw them as people that could do no wrong, some still do see them like this and infact I've even spoken to people that still believe that the "victims" made up the abuse claims.

Priests come in a close second to politicians(and always have done). I take it you’ve heard of parish pump politics?

Such a view to us now may seem insane but imagine such a mentality on almost all levels of society up and down the country, add to this religious orders who when they did find out about stuff they moved the cause of the abuse around in an effort to hide them.

And the modern view now that the state and its apparatus can look after you from cradle to grave, coupled with a multitude of rules, regulations and referenda, all to achieve some socialist utopia is not insane to you?

Whilst people may prefer to try and blame the government on this one it was our society that failed overall, there are numerous reasons for this including an affective church state.

Blaming society is catch all phrase and means no one is on the hook for anything.
Quote:

So who do you trust?, the parents that either allow their kids to be abused or abuse or neglect their kids themselves?......

We have enough rules and regulations in place to deal with child abuse. Why don’t we enact them instead of giving the state more control and power?

In case anyone missed it SF even wanted a yes on this (they also welcomed the yes vote outcome), plus the numerous organizations that supported this including the likes of amnesty international.

I never voted for Amnesty International or any of the other vested interest state spongers either.

To claim it was just the government pushing for a yes vote is frankly ignorant and again shows just how paranoid people can be about the government.

Does that include the supreme court?

7upfree

AK333 wrote: »

I'm new to Boards but get annoyed at sour grapes and just had to add something to this thread.

I worked at the referendum yesterday and No
I'm not a teacher
work in the public service

Yes
I am an ordinary person
I'm unemployed (just returned from Australia)
did write to the local returning officer and got a call

Sometimes you can be lucky - I obviously was

its not all cronyism - also, I don't agree that 'if you don't understand, you vote no' attitude.

If you don't understand the issues, you don't vote. IMO you vote your preference WHEN you understand what you are voting for, ie you agree and vote yes, or disagree and vote no. If you haven't a clue, you don't vote. my opinion only

Best of luck to anyone who did vote, and did work at the Referendum - it actually felt really good to be part of changing irish society

Can I ask how many more unemployed people were working in the polling station you were in? Also, people died for the vote. We were oppressed for over 800 years. So yes - exercise your vote always. And if you are unsure then vote no.

7upfree

Cabaal wrote: »

I think you'll find the problems in the past cannot simply be applied to the government in power at the time, it was a failing of our society as a whole.

In fairness that's an awful copout. Society cannot be continuously blamed. There are a myriad of rules and laws for everything in this country. They're just not enforced. And that's up to the authorities.

Potential-Monke

Cabaal wrote: »

Potential-Monke, any chance you are a teenager or atleast in your early 20's as you certainly sound very much like a self obsessed teenager.

imho, your view is very short sighted and who's to say you won't have kids in 5, 10, 15 years from now. Then it will affect you. Alot can change in your life. I know plenty of people that said they'd never had kids (both women and men) and later in life their mindset changed.

30 in May. I've had to make the hardest decision of my life this March, which was to end a near 7 years relationship due to wanting different things (mainly, she wanted children, i don't). I thought long and hard about it, and it was not something i made lightly. I'm not self-obsessed, but i know clearly what i have an interest in and what i don't. Children just happen to be something i care little about. I never had an inclination for children, and the longer i spend around them the more i grow to hate them (i'll give the older ones a bit of leeway, at least they can tell you why they're bloody crying!).

It might have something to do with my job, and the world as i see it, but i personally don't feel right bringing a child into this world. There are too many people out there who feel pressurized into having children to be part of the "normal" society, and there are friends of mine who just can't understand my views, and i think that is wrong. Some people are better off not having children, and in my opinion, i'm one of them. I've enough sh*t in my life without having the extra concern of a child (who should be the main priority in any parents life, but it's plain to see that is not the case).

Sully wrote: »

Do you not care for your nephews and nieces then? Or about how other children could be treated, regardless of your connection to them or not? If you saw a child being beaten by her parents, abused and so on - would you shrug and say "Nothing to do with me, I don't like kids. There annoying." ?

I do care for them, but who am i to be saying how they should live, what rights they have, etc, when i don't have the experience of my own children to go on. In my opinion, people who say what's right and wrong for children and their parents, when they don't have any children themselves, are usually the same people who think they know all right and no wrong. Obviously, if there was an indication of criminal behaviour on part of the parents, or the child was suffering (mentally or physically) because of the conduct of the parents, i would inform the relevant authorities.

But where's the line? Where's the decision that this is beyond the capabilities of the parents. That's the joy with having children, they're all different. You can't treat all children the same, because they are all individuals who act differently. Who am i to say that Mary down the road giving her little Paddy a smack on the backside is wrong? People who say that hitting all children is wrong will say so on this one, but is it? Is a tap on the arse that bad?

I was beat left and right when i was younger, but i deserved every single slap. And i thank my parents for it. Today, you can't even speak in certain tones to a child for fear of the authorities taking your child away. And i'm not putting myself, or someone dependant on me, in that situation.

Call it what you will, i call it having a clear mind as to what would be best for me and any children that i could have. And i wouldn't say anything to anyone in the street about how they treat their children, and i would just walk by (as long as they're not kicking the crap out of the child in front of me: assault is assault). Shur how many people ignore this kind of behaviour on a daily basis? I didn't have the child, it's not my responsibility. The behaviour of bad parents just re-affirms my belief that you should have a licence to have children.

Wanderer2010

^ Good post. I agree with you on the point of pressure of having children in society. Why do you have to have children exactly? Because its the done thing? Because "everyone else has them"? That is exactly the type of crap that makes people bring kids into the world when they dont want them and this leads to neglect and resentment which isnt just unfair on the parent but the child too. I openly admit I dont want kids and Im not interested in having them and I often get shocked responses like "But they are so wonderful"...yeah, for YOU, not for everyone. Shame its still un-PC to admit to not liking kids or wanting them but there you go, best to be honest with yourself.

AK333

I was in a small rural town so my experience would be different to others but I know of at least three other people who worked on the day, two of whom were unemployed and 1 was a third level student. I hadn't worked there before so didn't know the others and didn't chat to them all. Once we are at our desks, we are to remain there, apart from toilet breaks, etc.

and No, if you don't understand, don't vote. Only vote if you know what you are voting for and I agree with a previous poster, people died so that we got the vote and we should use it.