Discussing Wages at Work

Klawlor

Just a quick one.

My employment contract says nothing about discussing wages with other employees.

I can't find anything about it online but I was told it is illegal.

Is there an implied law that I'm missing? Can somebody clarify this for me please?

Paulw

Why would it be illegal?

Klawlor

Exactly what I keep asking. It seems ridiculous to me that it would be illegal but the people I was talking to were very sure that it is.

Thoie

If there's a code of conduct booklet, it might be mentioned in there. Most companies that I've worked for request that you don't discuss salaries with colleagues.

It's not illegal to do so in terms of Irish laws, but if your code of conduct says don't do it, and your employment contract says "I agree to follow the code of conduct", it could be used as grounds for dismissal along with something else.

Klawlor

That's what I was thinking too, Thoie. Thanks.

Manach

Well, awhile back I placed my salary details hanging up on my cube wall. Was told to take it down. Work confidencially or some such I was told.

ABajaninCork

Why would you discuss salary in work anyway? It's unprofessional...

Klawlor

Why is it unprofessional?

Yawns

It can cause stupid rifts in work. People will start to talk about how they A, do x thing better than B but B gets paid more so now A wants to go for a raise or A will resentful of B and then not be as helpful or co-operative as they were before they found out or may even try to show them up in some way.

ABajaninCork

Your salary should only be known to four people. You, your employer, your bank and the taxman!

Klawlor

Well that tells me who I should tell and not why but nice try anyway. Have a look at Yawns reply for good reasons.

areyawell

Its stupid discussing wages with people. Some people could be on less than you, some people could be on more as they have more experience than you. Employers might feel that some employees deserve more as they are doing a better job and think they are keeping a particular area in order and take control of situations.
Some people will want to keep the information to themselves and not discuss there wages with other people and will feel you are extremely rude and nosy by asking them. If you are unhappy with your wages then look up the average wage online for you role and discuss with your manager that you would like a raise.

Klawlor

Just to clarify to people here. I have not nor do I intend on starting a discussion at work with my colleagues. I agree that it can cause rifts as Yawns put it. Unfortunately it hasn't prevented others having that conversation at work and causing that exact sort of problem. Which is how the topic came up in the first place.

Thanks for all your input.

Yawns

well unfortunately people are stupid & nosey. No law against it but as others have said it could fall under a code of conduct.

ABajaninCork

Klawlor wrote: »

Well that tells me who I should tell and not why but nice try anyway. Have a look at Yawns reply for good reasons.

If you care to look, I did agree with Yawns by way of thanks. I do not see the point of rehashing the post - do you?

Klawlor

That's lovely. If only the page updated in real time and I saw it.

Manach

By not discussing wages, it might also hide inequalities in the system such as disparities in wages that might be actionable under the various employment acts. Keeping it secret serves the employer's interests most of all.

ardmacha

Your salary should only be known to four people. You, your employer, your bank and the taxman!

Unless you work in the public sector, when apparently it is everyone's business.

One could add one's spouse to the above, perhaps.

MMAGirl

Thoie wrote: »

If there's a code of conduct booklet, it might be mentioned in there. Most companies that I've worked for request that you don't discuss salaries with colleagues.

It's not illegal to do so in terms of Irish laws, but if your code of conduct says don't do it, and your employment contract says "I agree to follow the code of conduct", it could be used as grounds for dismissal along with something else.

The reason they dont want you to discuss salary is that the best think for the company. As long as everyone thinks they are getting paid more than the other lad they are happy. The company gets away with paying some people less than they should be. When people compare salaries then the company has to put up or shut up and pay people properly.

Yawns

MMAGirl wrote: »

The reason they dont want you to discuss salary is that the best think for the company. As long as everyone thinks they are getting paid more than the other lad they are happy. The company gets away with paying some people less than they should be. When people compare salaries then the company has to put up or shut up and pay people properly.

Well that's just plain wrong and silly. If you think you're work is up to scratch and is good enough to justify a raise, then bring it up with the boss. Don't look for a raise cos johnny got one so I want one too.

I've worked in a place before that was lax about this kind of thing and all it led to was bickering between some people and the boss being whinged at for what of a better word.

It's not etiquette here, but it most certainly isn't illegal.

monkeypants

You can do as I did once and email your salary to team members. Does cause mischief though.

MMAGirl

Yawns wrote: »

Well that's just plain wrong and silly. If you think you're work is up to scratch and is good enough to justify a raise, then bring it up with the boss. Don't look for a raise cos johnny got one so I want one too.

I've worked in a place before that was lax about this kind of thing and all it led to was bickering between some people and the boss being whinged at for what of a better word.

As someone who actually deals with wages and HR in my company, i think I know whats silly and whats not. You look for a raise and get 5% and you are delighted with it, because you think you are already on more than Johnny. Johnny didnt cave as easy and gets 10%. Hes happy, you're happy. You both think you are great and the Finance dept is ecstatic.

Yawns

MMAGirl wrote: »

As someone who actually deals with wages and HR in my company, i think I know whats silly and whats not. You look for a raise and get 5% and you are delighted with it, because you think you are already on more than Johnny. Johnny didnt cave as easy and gets 10%. Hes happy, you're happy. You both think you are great and the Finance dept is ecstatic.

Or the alternative is they all talk about it and then bitch if someone gets a raise. Then they refuse to work with a certain person so overall the standard of teamwork being done lessens. It's not good overall and only serves to cause rifts.

MMAGirl

Yawns wrote: »

Or the alternative is they all talk about it and then bitch if someone gets a raise. Then they refuse to work with a certain person so overall the standard of teamwork being done lessens. It's not good overall and only serves to cause rifts.

Im sure they would have a problem I they did talk about it. That's why companies encourage them not to talk about it.
How would anyone react if they found out that their workmates who wasn't as good as them was on more money.
You are only worth what you can negotiate. And the best situation for the company is to have them all think they are the best and are the best negotiators and are paid best.
That's why companies foster an environment where it's taboo to talk about what you are paid.
If some of them had access to the info I have in my company they would freak.
Better they don't discuss it then for me.

But the people who suffer most from not discussing their salaries and the employees.

Victor

ardmacha wrote: »

Unless you work in the public sector, when apparently it is everyone's business.

Not absolutely, as some pay increments are based on things like qualifications and years of service.

One could add one's spouse to the above, perhaps.

I think the point was that one's spouse shouldn't know.

daenerysstormborn3

In every job I've had, that has been written in my contract. I think it's more to help employee relations and not cause any silly rifts in work than anything else. I am the youngest person (by a minimum of 10 years) in the office I work in but I hold one of the more senior positions and I have been told informally, as well as it being written in my contract, to keep my salary to myself due to my age and position so as not to piss anybody off.

Procrastastudy

Keeping this on a vaguely legal footing...

Contracts (which is essentially what we're discussing here) are down to the individual. They're no one else's business - with very few exceptions a court will not step in where there is a bad bargain. Some people seem to be suggesting a nice left wing approach of openness and everyone on the same. That's not the world we live on. If you want more money get better at negotiating! There are plenty of good books on the subject.

If everything was a set price (and this includes labour) we simply could not compete.