Jimmy's Joining Celtic

Firblog

From listening to off the ball on newstalk tonight I believe that the rest of the country just doesn't get it.. they're on about how ppl in donegal feel about Jimmy taking up this job with Celtic..

If it was a job with Man U/Liverpool/Arsenal/Ireland the we may have some concerns; BUT IT'S GLASGOW CELTIC

Doesn't every Donegal Person Understand? Celtic Is Different...

oranbhoy67

Well Celtic are different in the fact that along with Hibs they are the only 2 Professional football clubs in the UK Leagues who were founded by & for the Irish community living there.

And unlike Hibs they have achieved many many honours and achievements - the latest being the defeat of one of the best club sides ever seen on Wednesday night (Barcelona ) despite the whole Celtic team that played only costing in the region of over £6 million in transfer fees.

So yes we are different to Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal/ any other English team & this should be a matter of pride to Irish people that our flag is flown by the Celtic fans - who are known for there great support & good behaviour.. instead nowadays it seems quite fashionable for the younger internet generation of Ireland to sneer at our club and mock the fact that we celebrate our Irish roots.


Anyway what a great opportunity for Jimmy & im glad he gets to do this ( & earn megabucks ) whilst simultaneously holding down the position as County Manager.

Cavehill Red

Dundee United?

oranbhoy67

Dundee United`s board made a concious descicion to hide there Irish Roots - by changing there name (they were formerly Dundee Hibernian ) and changing the colour of there strip ... this is from there wikipedia



"When originally founded as Dundee Hibernian, they had followed the example of other clubs of similar heritage by adopting the traditionally Irish colours of green shirts and white shorts. By the time the club became Dundee United in 1923, the colours had been changed to white shirts and black shorts as they sought to distance themselves from their Irish origins"

guinnessdrinker

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Well Celtic are different in the fact that along with Hibs they are the only 2 Professional football clubs in the UK Leagues who were founded by & for the Irish community living there.

Don't forget about Dundee United, maybe there are other teams also?

oranbhoy67

there may be other teams but i cant think of any.. except for other old Scottish teams like Dundee Harp etc who long ago went out of buisness & also Hibs for a time had a chairman who was vehemently Anti Irish & also tried to hide the roots of there club... but thankfully wasnt as sucessful as his Dundee United counterpart!

Cavehill Red

What if he'd joined Floriana in Malta?
Or the Boston Celtics?
Or Notre Dame?
Would it still be 'different'?

oranbhoy67

Cavehill Red wrote: »

What if he'd joined Floriana in Malta?
Or the Boston Celtics?
Or Notre Dame?
Would it still be 'different'?

He would probaly just have been wished well & that would be that.. as it should be

Cavehill Red

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

He would probaly just have been wished well & that would be that.. as it should be

Same as it should be now then.

gobythewall

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Well Celtic are different in the fact that along with Hibs they are the only 2 Professional football clubs in the UK Leagues who were founded by & for the Irish community living there.

And unlike Hibs they have achieved many many honours and achievements - the latest being the defeat of one of the best club sides ever seen on Wednesday night (Barcelona ) despite the whole Celtic team that played only costing in the region of over £6 million in transfer fees.

So yes we are different to Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal/ any other English team & this should be a matter of pride to Irish people that our flag is flown by the Celtic fans - who are known for there great support & good behaviour.. instead nowadays it seems quite fashionable for the younger internet generation of Ireland to sneer at our club and mock the fact that we celebrate our Irish roots.


Anyway what a great opportunity for Jimmy & im glad he gets to do this ( & earn megabucks ) whilst simultaneously holding down the position as County Manager.

I have never understood why the Irish feel it is their duty to support Celtic. But then I also dont under why the Scots ever wanted to become involved in the sectarianism of this island in the first place, although something makes me think that the ultras of any country would be glad of such an excuse. Surely there are enough people at that carry on already. I'd rather fly my own flag and not have others do it in my name.

I couldnt be described as the younger internet generation even by my most flattering friend but I dont think that means I should feel the same way about Celtic you do, I dont follow Notre Dame much either. I think if your not paying taxes here you have shouldnt have too much of a say.

All that said wildly applauded Celtic on Wednesday,not because I felt I was obliged to but because I heartily approved of their absolute balls on the night.

oranbhoy67

gobythewall wrote: »

I have never understood why the Irish feel it is their duty to support Celtic. But then I also dont under why the Scots ever wanted to become involved in the sectarianism of this island in the first place, although something makes me think that the ultras of any country would be glad of such an excuse. Surely there are enough people at that carry on already. I'd rather fly my own flag and not have others do it in my name.

I couldnt be described as the younger internet generation even by my most flattering friend but I dont think that means I should feel the same way about Celtic you do, I dont follow Notre Dame much either. I think if your not paying taxes here you have shouldnt have too much of a say.

All that said wildly applauded Celtic on Wednesday,not because I felt I was obliged to but because I heartily approved of their absolute balls on the night.

I certainly dont think it is the duty of the Irish to support Celtic.. however a little respect would be nice..that is my point.


As for sectarianism - well i have yet to ever in my 28 years attending Celtic Park heard 1 single song sang by Celtic fans that attacks any religion... i have heard songs attacking the orange order but not Religion.. Celtic had Protestants from the our very first team & indeed a good percentage of our clubs legends have been Protestants , from Jock Stein to Kenny Dalglish, Henrik Larsson & a good percentage of our European Cup winning team. so wheres the sectarinism in our club that is spoke off?? we are hated by sectarian bigots if that is what you mean??

And the Scots you are talking about well there is many Scots that support Celtic that would class themselves as 100% Scottish but there is many more who are Irish-Scots who go back generations right up till famine times or First Generation like myself..

Scotland was never a country that was welcoming to the Irish on the whole so that is perhaps why the Irish diaspora in Scotland have clung so fervently to there roots and are so proud of our club.. which was - and still is- the one place in Scotland that you can go to & feel safe openly displaying your Irish heritage..

For example we cant have a St Patricks day parade in Glasgow or a famine memorial like most other cities in the world which recieved mass immigrants due to the famine.. & that is despite our massive contribition to that city & the West of Scotland in general.

I do think there is a massive mis-understanding of the Celtic support from a lot of Irish as shown in your post & i think that is the problem here.

Cavehill Red

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

I do think there is a massive mis-understanding of the Celtic support from a lot of Irish as shown in your post & i think that is the problem here.

In turn, I'd think that the misrepresentation of Celtic as somehow 'Irish', when they are demonstrably a British sporting institution, is delusional.
My father is a lifelong Celtic fan who transferred his support to them when Belfast Celtic closed down and has attended Parkhead since 1948. He insists, and I don't doubt him, that there was almost no Irish support until the mid to late 80s, when canny marketers at the club decided to target the Irish because they could see Liverpool and United getting support via the ferries.
Whatever the origins of the club - no different to that of Hibs or Dundee United, in my opinion - the notion that Celtic always had some spiritual bond with the Irish is simply not true. There weren't any Irish in the Lisbon Lions, after all. The club is a Glasgow institution first and foremost.

gobythewall

I dont think its a misunderstanding, more a lack of empathy with your position. Im pretty sure I understand where you are coming from, you express your self very well. Im just unclear as to why you associate lack of support with lack of respect and I dont see a clear difference between religious and sectarian abuse. Surely none of it is helpful and its splitting hairs to draw any distinction between them. Im not a bigot for thinking this way.

As for the welcoming of the Irish to Scotland, the very word Scot refers to a tribe of Irishmen who invaded the region after the fall of the Roman Empire, annihilating the indigenous Pictish people to such a degree that not even their language survives. The Irish have been in Scotland for well over a thousand years. You would think they might just get on with it an stop expecting me to have to support them.

oranbhoy67

Cavehill Red wrote: »

In turn, I'd think that the misrepresentation of Celtic as somehow 'Irish', when they are demonstrably a British sporting institution, is delusional.
My father is a lifelong Celtic fan who transferred his support to them when Belfast Celtic closed down and has attended Parkhead since 1948. He insists, and I don't doubt him, that there was almost no Irish support until the mid to late 80s, when canny marketers at the club decided to target the Irish because they could see Liverpool and United getting support via the ferries.
Whatever the origins of the club - no different to that of Hibs or Dundee United, in my opinion - the notion that Celtic always had some spiritual bond with the Irish is simply not true. There weren't any Irish in the Lisbon Lions, after all. The club is a Glasgow institution first and foremost.

this post alone shows the simple mis-understandings that there is towards Celtic.. Sean Fallon the assitant manger in Lisbon is a sligo man, in the squad was Charlie Gallagher who represented Ireland at International level and is from Gweedore stock & just the season before Paddy Crerand who is also of Gweedore stock played for us but had to leave due to a clash with Jock Stein and join gloryhunter fc (man united)


Before that we had many Irish legends play & make there name at our club including Bertie Peacock, Rameltons own Patsy Gallagher, Charlie Tully and many many more


Like it or lump it Celtic do have a bond with Ireland, we were founded by an Irish Marist brother to feed the poor Irish immigrants of Glasgow , we ALWAYS have attracted support from the Irish diaspora all over the world, the colour of our jerseys represent the bonds we have with this country , not like your man uniteds or liverpools for example. who despite having a large support of Irish armchair fans represent nothing more than there own particular City.


No one is asking anyone to support any team against there will, certainly we have a good enough support as it is & dont need any fair weather fans. im just wondering why the OP felt the need to come on with a sarcastic retort towards Celtic and why since then we have the usual postings of folk determined to tell us that Celtic arent Irish,

Oh and my father when emigrating from Ireland went to Glasgow not only because of the big Donegal connections and the availabilty of work but also because he was a Celtic fan since a child when he grew up here in Donegal and looked forward to cheering the team on every weekend .. or are you going to tell me thats wrong as well??
seeing as you seem to know more about the club i have supported all my life than i do??


Anyway ive said all i have to say and id just like to wish Jim McGuiness all the best in his new role.. im very glad that he has been given this oppurtunity & also can keep his job at Donegal, i would have hated for him to have left the job completley after the transformation he has performed with the team over the last while. it would have been a big loss to Donegal if that were the case,, as it is his new role at Celtic Park will equip him even more for the job over here and hopefully bring even more success back to Donegal.

Cavehill Red

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

we ALWAYS have attracted support from the Irish diaspora all over the world, the colour of our jerseys represent the bonds we have with this country , not like your man uniteds or liverpools for example. who despite having a large support of Irish armchair fans represent nothing more than there own particular City.

Rather than pick all of that apart, I'll suffice by saying that this statement is exactly what I was referring to when I talked about some Celtic fans being delusional.

oranbhoy67

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Rather than pick all of that apart, I'll suffice by saying that this statement is exactly what I was referring to when I talked about some Celtic fans being delusional.

well what was delusional about that statement?? back it up

gobythewall

Once again, no one is telling you they know more than you, but it is possible to think differently than you. Maybe you might have to accept that it will happen sometimes. Also the best to Jim and to your good self and to Celtic and to the great Irish/Scottish diaspora.

I merely observe that you would weigh about half as much without the chip on your shoulder.

oranbhoy67

gobythewall wrote: »

Once again, no one is telling you they know more than you, but it is possible to think differently than you. Maybe you might have to accept that it will happen sometimes. Also the best to Jim and to your good self and to Celtic and to the great Irish/Scottish diaspora.

I merely observe that you would weigh about half as much without the chip on your shoulder.

i can accept people have different opinions but i also will challenge when those opinions are plain wrong such as saying that Celtic had no Irish support till the 80s or that we have no bond with Ireland, or that our support is sectarian


and as for the chip on my shoulder well thats your opinion, i wonder how certain peoples opinion would change had they to live in the West of Scotland for a certain period of time and live with the prejudice against the Irish that is very much in evidence still over there.

Cavehill Red

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

well what was delusional about that statement?? back it up

Let's start with this. As the song goes, what part of Ireland is this in?
Celtic Park, Glasgow, G40 3RE, United Kingdom.

oranbhoy67

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Let's start with this. As the song goes, what part of Ireland is this in?
Celtic Park, Glasgow, G40 3RE, United Kingdom.

where did i say we are Irish ?? we are a Scottish club with proud Irish roots and i dont believe i have stated otherwise on this thread have i??

gobythewall

An opinion by its very definition can not be wrong, but yes the chip on the shoulder was a cheap shot. But if you continue expecting everyone to agree with you in all things you are sure to be disappointed. I could equally well state that if you had lived my life you would think differently.

Cavehill Red

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

where did i say we are Irish ?? we are a Scottish club with proud Irish roots and i dont believe i have stated otherwise on this thread have i??

Just like Hibs and Dundee United.
All I've done is disagree with your suggestion that there is anything 'different' about Celtic, and provide the testimony of a man who has attended Celtic Park from 1948 until he was told he could no longer travel for health reasons a few years back, which contradicts your romantic belief that there was always some sort of spiritual bond which is unique and special. It's not unique, it's not 'different', it's just another British club making money off of Irish fans.

gobythewall

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Just like Hibs and Dundee United.
All I've done is disagree with your suggestion that there is anything 'different' about Celtic, and provide the testimony of a man who has attended Celtic Park from 1948 until he was told he could no longer travel for health reasons a few years back, which contradicts your romantic belief that there was always some sort of spiritual bond which is unique and special. It's not unique, it's not 'different', it's just another British club making money off of Irish fans.

Back to what I said earlier. If you are not groaning under the tax burden of the state you shouldnt try to identify for commercial/religious/identity seeking reasons.

oranbhoy67

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Just like Hibs and Dundee United.
All I've done is disagree with your suggestion that there is anything 'different' about Celtic, and provide the testimony of a man who has attended Celtic Park from 1948 until he was told he could no longer travel for health reasons a few years back, which contradicts your romantic belief that there was always some sort of spiritual bond which is unique and special. It's not unique, it's not 'different', it's just another British club making money off of Irish fans.

its not a romantic belief its fact, id assume he meant that there was no en-masse travel of fans to Celtic Park for games from Ireland & this i would believe, such was the economic situation back then that no team based in the UK had a large travelling support attending games from Ireland.. but the fact is Celtic have always had a large following in Ireland,, with the likes of Eamon Devalera attending games & indeed Micheal Davitt planting a sod of turf on the park (from Donegal) on the clubs innaugration in 1888.


It might not be everyones cup of tea but like it or not Celtic & Ireland are linked - always have been always will be.. todays signing of Jim McGuiness is just another step in the tradition that has been going on for 125 years and im sure will go on for many more...

Welcome To Paradise Jim

Cavehill Red

gobythewall wrote: »

Back to what I said earlier. If you are not groaning under the tax burden of the state you shouldnt try to identify for commercial/religious/identity seeking reasons.

I agree, and actually I find Celtic's marketing policy a little more insidious even than that. Obviously, it plays a large share of suppressing the development of football here in Ireland, along with the interest in premiership clubs. There's an enormous amount of money flooding into British coffers from Irish football fans, and even a small fraction of that would be of enormous value to Irish football. On topic, I think it's nice that some of that money will be coming back via Jimmy's earnings, and I hope he will be paying his tax on it here and spending it here.
Specifically with Celtic, because they have developed and fostered this connection with the Irish (perhaps the best word would be reforged) over the last 30 or more years, there is a problem with them signing players from Irish clubs for magic beans. While this is a problem across the board (what young Shelbourne or Portadown player isn't going to jump at the chance to move to even the likes of Tranmere or Motherwell, if only for the wages?), there is a specific problem with Celtic signing up players from Ireland for much less than their value, with the sales pitch of what glory it would be for the lad, etc, etc.

oranbhoy67

gobythewall wrote: »

Back to what I said earlier. If you are not groaning under the tax burden of the state you shouldnt try to identify for commercial/religious/identity seeking reasons.

commercial reasons - No doubt Celtic as PLC love the fact that they have a fanbase here

Religious reasons - again show me the sectarian Celtic songs/chants?? yes we have idiots amongst our support that may support us for this reason . but in any large gathering of people theres always idiots.

Identity reasons- so all the Irish who have emigrated in the last few years no longer have a say in this country?? and there children are not allowed to have an Irish identity is this what you are telling me???

gobythewall

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

commercial reasons - No doubt Celtic as PLC love the fact that they have a fanbase here

Religious reasons - again show me the sectarian Celtic songs/chants?? yes we have idiots amongst our support that may support us for this reason . but in any large gathering of people theres always idiots.

Identity reasons- so all the Irish who have emigrated in the last few years no longer have a say in this country?? and there children are not allowed to have an Irish identity is this what you are telling me???

No say, you force me to repeat myself. No representation without taxation. As for identity, they can have whatever one they want as long as they dont expect me to validate or have to listen to it. After all I would never travel to Scotland just to tell the people there how I feel.

gobythewall

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I agree, and actually I find Celtic's marketing policy a little more insidious even than that. Obviously, it plays a large share of suppressing the development of football here in Ireland, along with the interest in premiership clubs. There's an enormous amount of money flooding into British coffers from Irish football fans, and even a small fraction of that would be of enormous value to Irish football. On topic, I think it's nice that some of that money will be coming back via Jimmy's earnings, and I hope he will be paying his tax on it here and spending it here.
Specifically with Celtic, because they have developed and fostered this connection with the Irish (perhaps the best word would be reforged) over the last 30 or more years, there is a problem with them signing players from Irish clubs for magic beans. While this is a problem across the board (what young Shelbourne or Portadown player isn't going to jump at the chance to move to even the likes of Tranmere or Motherwell, if only for the wages?), there is a specific problem with Celtic signing up players from Ireland for much less than their value, with the sales pitch of what glory it would be for the lad, etc, etc.

Absolutely. As demonstrated by RTEs football reality show, the poor children leaving with echoing word in their ears - you must leave behind the CELTIC jersey. Youd imagine it was the barca kit to hear them

oranbhoy67

gobythewall wrote: »

Absolutely. As demonstrated by RTEs football reality show, the poor children leaving with echoing word in their ears - you must leave behind the CELTIC jersey. Youd imagine it was the barca kit to hear them

would that be the Barca team we beat the other night?? i was there along with many busloads of Irish fans what a great night.. Irish flags everywhere & songs being sung and celebration of our Irish identity & a great night altogether in our magnificent stadium which in itself is a testament to the Irish diaspora in Scotland.. no wonder Jim has jumped aboard!

Heres a bit of history that you 2 and many others could well do with learning before you give out on this topic!

gobythewall

I really think you would be better off having your own identity and not one you got out of a box, again only an opinion but I firmly believe that every one should be able to think for themselves.

So Ill pass on the propaganda thanks.

As for Barca as I said to you long ago now, Celtic had a well earned victory on wednesday. That wont prevent Barcalona continuing to enjoy themselves at the expense of just about everybody in the long term and it wont make Celtic any more Irish than they are.

Cavehill Red

You're Scottish, and you support your hometown team. I've no problem with that. What I have a problem with is you pretending that your hometown team from a foreign country is mine too and that of everyone on this entire island. It's not and never will be, no matter how much horse**** the marketing people at Celtic who make money off the gullible try to tell me it is.

The Assistinator

Anyhow congrats to jim on this apointment im glad to see that he can make a living out of what he does im sure nobody will hold this against him, his family comes first and supporting them should be his main priorty .
On a personel note (as a proud donegal man)hope it works out and this time next year we have 3 ulsters and back to back all irelands would be some achievement.:D

Firblog

Think yiz have missed the point of my initial post, I wasn't on about which teams are more irish than the next one (the inclusion of Ireland in the 3 I mentioned made that pretty clear) I was referring to the special affection that Celtic have from - I'd be pretty sure - a very large precentage of the people in donegal; it is this affection allied to the huge sense of gratitude/debt we feel towards JMG for what he and the team achieved last year that makes this move so.... palatable/non contentious/acceptable.

If he had made the same comittment to any other soccer team I don't think as many people in Donegal would feel the same way. We are happy for him, but also happy for Celtic... they can only be strengthened by his appointment, and it creates another bond/link between Celtic and Donegal

homer simpson

I thought I'd gone into a thread in the soccer forum by mistake for a while there. If you want to discuss Jim McGuinness joining Celtic part time as a coach here feel free, if you want to talk about Celtic FC go to the soccer forum.

oranbhoy67

Firblog wrote: »

Think yiz have missed the point of my initial post, I wasn't on about which teams are more irish than the next one (the inclusion of Ireland in the 3 I mentioned made that pretty clear) I was referring to the special affection that Celtic have from - I'd be pretty sure - a very large precentage of the people in donegal; it is this affection allied to the huge sense of gratitude/debt we feel towards JMG for what he and the team achieved last year that makes this move so.... palatable/non contentious/acceptable.

If he had made the same comittment to any other soccer team I don't think as many people in Donegal would feel the same way. We are happy for him, but also happy for Celtic... they can only be strengthened by his appointment, and it creates another bond/link between Celtic and Donegal

my apologies firblog i mistook your post and thought it was sarcastic , and i agree with you, as i stated earlier i think its great he can recieve financial rewards whilst learning at Celtic & hopefully he can bring the same success he has had at Donegal to Celtic, whilst carrying on the great job he is already doing, it think its a win-win for everyone involved

Technique

Only in Ireland would people show how Irish they are by supporting a Scottish team!

Finn Harps are a team with a strong Irish heritage, they would be happy with support from local football fans with a strong national identity.

Good luck to Jim in his new role, hope it goes well for him.

Firblog

Technique wrote: »

Only in Ireland would people show how Irish they are by supporting a Scottish team!

No matter what way I try to interpret that sentence it doesn't make any sense to me... Please explain..

yourpics

martyo wrote: »

Anyhow congrats to jim on this apointment im glad to see that he can make a living out of what he does im sure nobody will hold this against him, his family comes first and supporting them should be his main priorty .
On a personel note (as a proud donegal man)hope it works out and this time next year we have 3 ulsters and back to back all irelands would be some achievement.:D

Best of luck to Jim, the Celtic and Donegal connection continues.
But listening to the media etc you would think the man was down and out on the dole, he has a free car supplied to him and his wife is a solicitor!!

The Assistinator

yourpics wrote: »

Best of luck to Jim, the Celtic and Donegal connection continues.
But listening to the media etc you would think the man was down and out on the dole, he has a free car supplied to him and his wife is a solicitor!!

While im sure he enjoys having a free car im sure he does not want to live of his wife, and he spent years studying sport science and what not so of course he should be getting a paid job out of it, the same as every other person that studies anything wants , regardless of his finances.

harpstilidie

Technique wrote: »

Only in Ireland would people show how Irish they are by supporting a Scottish team!

Finn Harps are a team with a strong Irish heritage, they would be happy with support from local football fans with a strong national identity.

Good luck to Jim in his new role, hope it goes well for him.

You can say that again

overshoot

Firblog wrote: »

No matter what way I try to interpret that sentence it doesn't make any sense to me... Please explain..

just out of curiosity... if an irishman went to america in 1888 and his decendant came back today would you call them irish? saying there is currently an irish 1/2 in the scottish football league just doesnt match up with their scottish bases. and was said above if i want to see an irish team theres a senior one in the county where the most exotic player was born in england (and grew up here!) there is actually as many czechs in the celtic senior squad atm as irish.

anyway its excellent for jim, iv seen so much crap about can he manage it time wise but for god sake its a 2 day job, call it 3 with travelling where he will pick up 150k a year for it. for a unemployed man with kids whose wife is on a 3 day week absoulte no brainer. anyway how many managers have full time jobs! with degrees in sports science & psychology he was always going to end up in a pro sports job. just a shame we cant keep calling him the perennial student then :pac:

oranbhoy67

I take it all the people calling Celtic 100% Scottish didnt Cheer when Ray Houghton scored against England and Italy???

i agree with the fact that he can manage it time wise no bother... glasgow is a 30 min + flight away!!

oranbhoy67

just out of curiosity... if an irishman went to america in 1888 and his decendant came back today would you call them irish? saying there is currently an irish 1/2 in the scottish football league just doesnt match up with their scottish bases. and was said above if i want to see an irish team theres a senior one in the county where the most exotic player was born in england (and grew up here!) there is actually as many czechs in the celtic senior squad atm as irish.

Irish American.. same way the Celtic are a Scottish club with Irish heritage . Scots/Irish if you will.. as the name suggest!


Theres 3 Irishmen in the current Celtic squad & an Irish manager.. theres 2 czech players

homer simpson

And predictably this thread is now locked. For future reference here is a link to the soccer forum.