False MED 1 Claim Query, PLS HELP

briant111

Hi All,

I’m looking for some help/advice, please don’t judge, I know how stupid I’ve been so need to remind me, just looking for some advice please.

I filled in my MED 1 form for 2011 and put some silly numbers for my medical expenses [it was a LOT]. Revenue requested receipts for 2011 and I made the stupid mistake of submitting mostly receipts that I made up/created, Revenue paid this amount for 2011. I then updated my previous years for 2008/09/10 and again put in some silly numbers. Again Revenue requested receipts and again I sent in mostly false receipts. At this point Revenue wrote to me and told me that I was being investigated for the years 2008/09/10/11. Needless to say it dawned on me how stupid I’ve been. About 4/5 week after receiving this letter I went online and amended my claims for the above years to €1 for each year. I then phoned Revenue and told them that I had submitted “not valid” receipts and that I was sorry etc etc. The guy on the phone was quite nice and told me that my claims would be recalculated and I would need to re-pay what was owed for 2008/09/10/11. He even offered to speak to the person who was investigating me and told me that I did the right thing and not to worry.

I paid the refunds within 2 weeks. I was then phoned by Revenue and asked to meet with them to discuss my previous claims, which I did. During this meeting I came clean and admitted that I submitted mostly false receipts and that I was sorry [I did have some serious financial trouble and had nowhere else to go, yes I know it’s not a valid reason, but that’s why I did it]. They seemed to understand why I did it and they told me that they would contact me after following it up internally, that was 5/6 weeks ago and I’ve heard nothing back yet.

My query; because I updated my claims for the years above and that Revenue accepted, processed and cashed the MED1 claim forms & cheques, could Revenue use the false receipts that I originally submitted and prosecute me?, even though they have accepted my updated MED 1 claims for 2008/09/10/11? I’m hoping that because they accepted my updated claims, all previous claims are not valid and therefore the made up receipts are not valid.

Sorry for the long post and I know how stupid I’ve been, but I’m going out of my mind with worry that Revenue will prosecute me for submitting false receipts .
BTW, anyone thinking of trying this DO NOT, for the past 6 months for every second of the day I’m worried with this, to admit to your wife that you may have committed fraud is not something I would like anyone else to go though, again, please go easy on me, any financial gain I did get I’ve had to pay back that figure multiplied by a factor of 4, so everyone beware - IT IS NOT WORTH IT.

Rant over, help/advice please.

DoMyBooks

I can't answer your questions above but I believe if the revenue are thinking of prosecuting they will caution you. If someone isn't cautioned before a meeting their confession may not be valid in court. (I'm not a solicitor so make what you want of that)

If you contact the auditor leading the inspection and explain its affecting you in a big way, they may be able to give you an answer either way.

Gael23

I would think you are liable for prosecution because you did commit the offence. However, the fact you have made efforts to put things right should mean you will be dealt with less harshly

relax carry on

briant111 wrote: »

Hi All,

I’m looking for some help/advice, please don’t judge, I know how stupid I’ve been so need to remind me, just looking for some advice please.

I filled in my MED 1 form for 2011 and put some silly numbers for my medical expenses [it was a LOT]. Revenue requested receipts for 2011 and I made the stupid mistake of submitting mostly receipts that I made up/created, Revenue paid this amount for 2011. I then updated my previous years for 2008/09/10 and again put in some silly numbers. Again Revenue requested receipts and again I sent in mostly false receipts. At this point Revenue wrote to me and told me that I was being investigated for the years 2008/09/10/11. Needless to say it dawned on me how stupid I’ve been. About 4/5 week after receiving this letter I went online and amended my claims for the above years to €1 for each year. I then phoned Revenue and told them that I had submitted “not valid” receipts and that I was sorry etc etc. The guy on the phone was quite nice and told me that my claims would be recalculated and I would need to re-pay what was owed for 2008/09/10/11. He even offered to speak to the person who was investigating me and told me that I did the right thing and not to worry.

I paid the refunds within 2 weeks. I was then phoned by Revenue and asked to meet with them to discuss my previous claims, which I did. During this meeting I came clean and admitted that I submitted mostly false receipts and that I was sorry [I did have some serious financial trouble and had nowhere else to go, yes I know it’s not a valid reason, but that’s why I did it]. They seemed to understand why I did it and they told me that they would contact me after following it up internally, that was 5/6 weeks ago and I’ve heard nothing back yet.

My query; because I updated my claims for the years above and that Revenue accepted, processed and cashed the MED1 claim forms & cheques, could Revenue use the false receipts that I originally submitted and prosecute me?, even though they have accepted my updated MED 1 claims for 2008/09/10/11? I’m hoping that because they accepted my updated claims, all previous claims are not valid and therefore the made up receipts are not valid.

Sorry for the long post and I know how stupid I’ve been, but I’m going out of my mind with worry that Revenue will prosecute me for submitting false receipts .
BTW, anyone thinking of trying this DO NOT, for the past 6 months for every second of the day I’m worried with this, to admit to your wife that you may have committed fraud is not something I would like anyone else to go though, again, please go easy on me, any financial gain I did get I’ve had to pay back that figure multiplied by a factor of 4, so everyone beware - IT IS NOT WORTH IT.

Rant over, help/advice please.

Link below provides a list of offences which may be prosecuted. Every case is unique, so talking to Auditor in the case may help.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/audit-code-of-practice/prosecution.html

Ally Dick

Hopefully they'll decide that your obvious contrition is enough of a punishment. However, anything I ever read about the revenue audits etc always points to draconian punishments, and not giving an inch, so prepare for the worst

Shane732

Ok, get the idea of being led away handcuffed in the back of a Garda van out of your head. It's not going to happen.

You submitted incorrect claims and also falsified medical receipts. When you successfully managed to do it for one year, you then attempted to do it for a number of previous years.

I've no idea how much you are talking about but I assume that the actually amounts are low relative to some of the cases the Revenue Commissioners are dealing with on a daily basis. If for example you submitted €100,000 of medical expenses for 2011 it would slight only be €20,000 in tax.

You might never hear anything from them again on the matter.

IMO the worst you'd get would be fixed penalties.

You deserve to be prosecuted but the cost of doing it probably far outweighs the benefit.

briant111

To all the previous posters, many thanks for your replies [and lack of negative comments], I do appreciate all the comments but what I'm really looking for is for some assurances to my question;

My query; because I updated my claims for the years above and that Revenue accepted, processed and cashed the MED1 claim forms & cheques, could Revenue use the false receipts that I originally submitted and prosecute me?, even though they have accepted my updated MED 1 claims for 2008/09/10/11? I’m hoping that because they accepted my updated claims, all previous claims are not valid and therefore the made up receipts are not valid.[/I][/B]

If there are any Revenue/tax consultants who can answer specifically this question and put me out of my misery it woudl be greatly appreciated

Signed, WORRIED.

briant111

Spot on Shane732 with the process, not with the figures, if only I could turn back time and stop myself from making the biggest mistake of my life.

lucy1980

Do you mind me asking what did you overclaim by and what were the penalties?? I am in the same situation, I overclaimed by around 6000euro. I am been audited for 08/09/10/11 also, So stressed over it.

DoMyBooks

briant111 wrote: »

To all the previous posters, many thanks for your replies [and lack of negative comments], I do appreciate all the comments but what I'm really looking for is for some assurances to my question;

My query; because I updated my claims for the years above and that Revenue accepted, processed and cashed the MED1 claim forms & cheques, could Revenue use the false receipts that I originally submitted and prosecute me?, even though they have accepted my updated MED 1 claims for 2008/09/10/11? I’m hoping that because they accepted my updated claims, all previous claims are not valid and therefore the made up receipts are not valid.[/I][/B]

If there are any Revenue/tax consultants who can answer specifically this question and put me out of my misery it woudl be greatly appreciated

Signed, WORRIED.

They could still potentially prosecute you. You tick a few boxes on this list:
Type of tax offences that are most likely to be prosecuted
The types of offences that are most likely to be prosecuted are set out below:

Deliberate omissions from tax returns
False claims for repayment
Use of forged or falsified documents
Facilitating fraudulent evasion of tax
Systematic scheme to evade tax
Use of offshore bank accounts to evade tax
Insidious schemes of tax evasion
Failure (as distinct from minor delays) in remitting fiduciary taxes.

BUT
Having identified an offence of the type described above, the following factors are generally considered before the decision to investigate with a view to prosecution is taken:

The likely length and expense of a trial. The cost of pursuing prosecution should not be disproportionate to the possible benefit to be obtained

relax carry on

Not having a go here at the two posters who have admitted that they were in the wrong but there has to be some consequences to fraudulent cases like these, otherwise what's the point.
If there is no penalty in these cases, ranging from at the very least a lifetime bar on the paye anytime service all the way to prosecution; then where is the deterrent to others?
Just having to repay the money fraudulently obtained is just like getting an interest free loan and Revenue are not a lender of last resort.

Specifically at the two posters with the issues; speak to the caseworker assigned to reviewing your respective cases. They are the only ones who can tell you what the consequences of your actions will be. Keep in mind cooperation is key here.

mouse123

Hi just wonder how you got on with revenue, I am in similar position but am going to make a voluntary submission to revenue and pay back the monies owed?

DoMyBooks

I noticed someone received a €2000 fine on the latest defaulters list for fraudulently claiming medical expenses

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/defaulters-list1-dec2012.pdf

briant111

Hi All,

After 6 months of sleepless nights, stress and bascially feeling very low, Revenue have contact me to say that I will not be prosecuted

I will be called in after Xmas and a fine and a warning is on the way, but in all fairness I totally deserved it.

I'd like to thank all the contributors and comments. for anyone thinking of doing this, please take it from me, it is not worth it, do not mess with Revenue.

Cheers all, a happy camper!

Gael23

briant111 wrote: »

Hi All,

After 6 months of sleepless nights, stress and bascially feeling very low, Revenue have contact me to say that I will not be prosecuted

I will be called in after Xmas and a fine and a warning is on the way, but in all fairness I totally deserved it.

I'd like to thank all the contributors and comments. for anyone thinking of doing this, please take it from me, it is not worth it, do not mess with Revenue.

Cheers all, a happy camper!

As I thought, you have gotten off with just a fine. Had you not made an effort to repay the money, things would have been a lot different.

Ally Dick

briant111 wrote: »

Hi All,

After 6 months of sleepless nights, stress and bascially feeling very low, Revenue have contact me to say that I will not be prosecuted

I will be called in after Xmas and a fine and a warning is on the way, but in all fairness I totally deserved it.

I'd like to thank all the contributors and comments. for anyone thinking of doing this, please take it from me, it is not worth it, do not mess with Revenue.

Cheers all, a happy camper!

I'm delighted. Now you should go and enjoy your Christmas