Road Cycling & Weighlifting-Can they work together?

detones

Just wondering if anybody on here that into road cycling also lifts weights? Not just specific training for cycling though, weights for upper body too. I'm really struggling to do both at the moment. Has anybody found a balanced program that develops both your cycling and muscle building/strenght,what has worked for you or am I looking for the impossible??? I'm cycling 3 times a week at the moment (120-150km a week) and doing gym work the other 3. While my cyling is coming along I think my gym work has suffered as a result. My goals cycling wise would be to complete a few 100k+ sportives next year but not end up a rake as a result. I feel a lot of why i'm struggling at the moment could be down to diet. I say this however as i type, sip on a cup of tea and eat a packet of maltesers, ah cr@p i just dropped one!

aFlabbyPanda

I cycle 30KM per day (weather permitting) commuting to work, training BJJ/Thai 3 evenings a week and have 2 days weights. The diet is key, the weeks I let my diet slide a bit or don't eat enough I struggle big time. As long as you are fuelling your body correctly and getting enough rest there should be no problem.

velo.2010

Are you with a cycling club? I know of a couple in Dublin that are offering cycling specific gym classes focusing, in particular, on core work over the winter months. You say thats not quite what your looking for but if you want to achieve your cycling goals then a programme deemed useful by a cycling club could help.

Of course, diet too is very important. Are you eating enough? You sound like you know the score regarding the gym so I guess you know what your intake requirements to maintain a healthy weight and fuel your training.

FWIW, I'm doing 200-230km per week at the moment and gym 3 times a week.

kincsem

Not at the same time.

detones

velo.2010 wrote: »

Are you with a cycling club? I know of a couple in Dublin that are offering cycling specific gym classes focusing, in particular, on core work over the winter months. You say thats not quite what your looking for but if you want to achieve your cycling goals then a programme deemed useful by a cycling club could help.

Of course, diet too is very important. Are you eating enough? You sound like you know the score regarding the gym so I guess you know what your intake requirements to maintain a healthy weight and fuel your training.

FWIW, I'm doing 200-230km per week at the moment and gym 3 times a week.

Yeah thanks I'm thinking of joining a club soon. Only took up cycling earlier this year. I eat like a horse but tend to eat huge meals irregularly rather than the recommened smaller portions more often which is hard to achieve during the working week. I think I'm loosing muscle mass on longer cycles as I'm not properly fuelling while cycling or post cycle. i need to educate myself more on this. I think a recovery drink could help though i know little about them, and some complex carbs, and protein post cycle.

Brian?

I trained for a triathlon and trained as a (non-competitive) power lifter at the same time. It's a terrible idea.

You can do both, but you'll remain mediocre at both. If have no intention of competing in either that's fine, you need to simply find a balance you are willing to live with.

If you are weight training to become a better cyclist, here is some sage advice:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81586626&postcount=3

It's not specifically about cycling but it still holds true.

petethedrummer

Yes.

detones

petethedrummer wrote: »

Yes.

I'd say he's great at descending but I wouldn't fancy getting that lump up a hill!

Lumen

detones wrote: »

My goals cycling wise would be to complete a few 100k+ sportives next year but not end up a rake as a result

Why do you want to fight your body's attempts to adapt?

Being strong off the bike and fast on a bike are perfectly worthy objectives.

Wanting to achieve or maintain a certain physical shape for its own sake is a ridiculous, narcissistic objective. With respect, get over it. :pac:

smacl

I do some kettlebell training in addition to cycling, principally as I'm still involved in some martial arts and need to maintain sufficient upper body strength. No reason why you shouldn't do other conditioning exercises in addition to cycling, once you're clear why you're doing them. To complete 100k sportives you just need to cycle regularly, if you're doing 120k-150k per week, you could probably complete one already without too much bother.

detones

Wanting to achieve or maintain a certain physical shape for its own sake is a ridiculous, narcissistic objective. With respect, get over it. :pac:[/QUOTE]

I kind of expected this kind of reply and to be honest I understand were your coming from. For guys who are serious into cycling they probably can’t understand were I'm coming from. I enjoy cycling and over the past few weeks in particular have found myself really getting the bug for it. I enjoy the buzz you get from it, from the fast decents to finaly getting over a hill you couldn’t before to getting fitter and meeting new people however I have other interests which I don’t really want to give up. It seems for a lot of people cycling is more a way of life than a hobby and it’s all they nearly do or want to do in their free time. Maybe one day I’ll be like that too. But at the moment I'd like to keep my other interest. I actually got into weightlifting years ago in my early 20’s when I played rugby (I was fast but fairly talentless by the way!). It was more about gaining power than size, but if I’m honest when you feel and see your self getting bigger it does give you an ego boost. Today I’m no Arnie by any means, at 180cm and 87kg but I have lost almost lost 5kg over the past couple of Months and I know it’s not all been fat. To say being body conscious is a "ridiculous, narcissistic objective" is fine if that’s your opinion but I disagree. Would you call every housewife or middle age man jogging in the park narcissistic just because their trying to shift their beer belly which is “achieving a certain physical shape”? I raised the post to get a feel for if there were guys or girls who did cycle and workout but I’m staring to feel I’ll be in the vast minority. However I always have that narcissistic ego to keep me company .

shaka

Kettle bells are the biz , great for the auld hip movements

Lusk Doyle

detones wrote: »

I kind of expected this kind of reply and to be honest I understand were your coming from. For guys who are serious into cycling they probably can’t understand were I'm coming from. I enjoy cycling and over the past few weeks in particular have found myself really getting the bug for it. I enjoy the buzz you get from it, from the fast decents to finaly getting over a hill you couldn’t before to getting fitter and meeting new people however I have other interests which I don’t really want to give up. It seems for a lot of people cycling is more a way of life than a hobby and it’s all they nearly do or want to do in their free time. Maybe one day I’ll be like that too. But at the moment I'd like to keep my other interest. I actually got into weightlifting years ago in my early 20’s when I played rugby (I was fast but fairly talentless by the way!). It was more about gaining power than size, but if I’m honest when you feel and see your self getting bigger it does give you an ego boost. Today I’m no Arnie by any means, at 180cm and 87kg but I have lost almost lost 5kg over the past couple of Months and I know it’s not all been fat. To say being body conscious is a "ridiculous, narcissistic objective" is fine if that’s your opinion but I disagree. Would you call every housewife or middle age man jogging in the park narcissistic just because their trying to shift their beer belly which is “achieving a certain physical shape”? I raised the post to get a feel for if there were guys or girls who did cycle and workout but I’m staring to feel I’ll be in the vast minority. However I always have that narcissistic ego to keep me company .

I hear you. Having been quite the sex god myself prior to getting serious with the real missus (cycling) I was concerned with the body going famine-esque on me. I realised recently that my efforts have been futile. I admit defeat and submit to her will

Brian?

I meant to say as well, completing 100k sportives does not require the physique of Bradley Wiggins.

In about 30 minutes I will be embarking on a handy 80km. I weigh 105kg.

Lumen

detones wrote: »

To say being body conscious is a "ridiculous, narcissistic objective" is fine if that’s your opinion but I disagree. Would you call every housewife or middle age man jogging in the park narcissistic just because their trying to shift their beer belly which is “achieving a certain physical shape”? I raised the post to get a feel for if there were guys or girls who did cycle and workout but I’m staring to feel I’ll be in the vast minority. However I always have that narcissistic ego to keep me company

I'm not throwing stones - I have plenty of ridiculous, narcissistic objectives myself.

I'm just suggesting that other objectives (e.g. being faster and stronger) might ultimately prove more deeply rewarding.

shaka

Brian? wrote: »

I meant to say as well, completing 100k sportives does not require the physique of Bradley Wiggins.

In about 30 minutes I will be embarking on a handy 80km. I weigh 105kg.

Agreed but it helps going up the hills to be carrying a bit less padding 100kg myself and have no problem doing the longer cycles Sean Kelly , rebel tour ,rok etc . I was doing kettle bells at start of the summer and it definitely helped my climbing big time , when I stopped my climbing slowed even though I was same weight. Kettle bells engage core and hips for most movements even when working on other muscle groups.:D

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

I'm not throwing stones - I have plenty of ridiculous, narcissistic objectives myself.

I'm just suggesting that other objectives (e.g. being faster and stronger) might ultimately prove more deeply rewarding.

That's the great thing about weight training though. The added muscle makes you faster and stronger but limits climbing and endurance.

Because it makes you stronger you can tell everyone that's why you're doing it, but really it's vanity.

dario28

detones wrote: »

Just wondering if anybody on here that into road cycling also lifts weights? Not just specific training for cycling though, weights for upper body too. I'm really struggling to do both at the moment. Has anybody found a balanced program that develops both your cycling and muscle building/strenght,what has worked for you or am I looking for the impossible??? I'm cycling 3 times a week at the moment (120-150km a week) and doing gym work the other 3. While my cyling is coming along I think my gym work has suffered as a result. My goals cycling wise would be to complete a few 100k+ sportives next year but not end up a rake as a result. I feel a lot of why i'm struggling at the moment could be down to diet. I say this however as i type, sip on a cup of tea and eat a packet of maltesers, ah cr@p i just dropped one!

Both is possible yes - You need to eat fooking loads though and balance your legs day as far away from your long spin day

Whats your weight and height and diet at the moment ?

I'd be 175cm 80kgs and am putting away over 3000cals a day , 3 gym sessions , 2 spins , 3 swims and 1 run a week - its all possible if you want it

dario28

Brian? wrote: »

That's the great thing about weight training though. The added muscle makes you faster and stronger but limits climbing and endurance.

Not sure about that added muscle limits climbing/endurance , not practicing enough limits climbing/endurace

I was of that thinking 2 year's ago when the Howth Hill Climb TT was taking me over 10mins - now my PB is 7:55 and Im heavier/stronger than when I started , only difference is through the summers I cosistently doing 3 or 4 climbs per session per week.

Brian?

dario28 wrote: »

Not sure about that added muscle limits climbing/endurance , not practicing enough limits climbing/endurace

I was of that thinking 2 year's ago when the Howth Hill Climb TT was taking me over 10mins - now my PB is 7:55 and Im heavier/stronger than when I started , only difference is through the summers I cosistently doing 3 or 4 climbs per session per week.

The extra weight limits climbing. Look at all the great climbers and then compare them to the likes of Phillip Gilbert.

Lusk Doyle

dario28 wrote: »

Not sure about that added muscle limits climbing/endurance , not practicing enough limits climbing/endurace

I was of that thinking 2 year's ago when the Howth Hill Climb TT was taking me over 10mins - now my PB is 7:55 and Im heavier/stronger than when I started , only difference is through the summers I cosistently doing 3 or 4 climbs per session per week.

Wind assisted or not?

petethedrummer

Two options.

1. Accept your new skinny hipster body by growing a handlebar moustache.

2. Do some pushups when you get off the bike.

actually there is a 3rd option..... Hand Cycling. Them chaps have huge arms.

paddie9

detones wrote: »

Just wondering if anybody on here that into road cycling also lifts weights? Not just specific training for cycling though, weights for upper body too. I'm really struggling to do both at the moment. Has anybody found a balanced program that develops both your cycling and muscle building/strenght,what has worked for you or am I looking for the impossible??? I'm cycling 3 times a week at the moment (120-150km a week) and doing gym work the other 3. While my cyling is coming along I think my gym work has suffered as a result. My goals cycling wise would be to complete a few 100k+ sportives next year but not end up a rake as a result. I feel a lot of why i'm struggling at the moment could be down to diet. I say this however as i type, sip on a cup of tea and eat a packet of maltesers, ah cr@p i just dropped one!

I was trying the same. Got the balance right when I picked a couple of key excercises with free weights and used heavier weights. It reduced the time as I was able to do them from home with a weight bench and it didn't seem to take as much out of me.

brian_m

I was in a similar situation to yourself when I took up mountain biking over a year ago. I used to always hit the gym three times a week religiously along with a few hours of astro soccer and loved it. As the cycling bug bit harder and I wanted to get out on the bike more I found all three harder to manage time wise. I managed to fit it all in along with work with a bit of planning. For a few weeks over the summer just gone my gym was inaccessible so weights were out. I instantly noticed my times and power on the bike improving.. I am not big up on the science side of things, maybe my diet was not what it should have been to make it all work but I think there is only so much I could extract. Now I only do the gym one night a week. My weight lifting strength has dropped back but for me the buzz of constantly getting faster and stronger on the bike is surpassing the enjoyment I get from the weights. I was not really into bulk building in the gym so I have not lost a mad amount of weight from the cycling...I think I will try using some weights at home like Paddie has done, this would allow me to spread the workouts out a bit more evenly and maybe get better results.

detones

dario28 wrote: »

Both is possible yes - You need to eat fooking loads though and balance your legs day as far away from your long spin day

Whats your weight and height and diet at the moment ?

I'd be 175cm 80kgs and am putting away over 3000cals a day , 3 gym sessions , 2 spins , 3 swims and 1 run a week - its all possible if you want it

180cm 87kg, I'm eating a lot, not sure of cals but I know if I improve the quality of what I eat and eat smaller more regular meals it would help. I need to particulary focus on refuelling after a long cycle properly and not horse down a half tin if roses like i did last Saturday after a spin!

detones

brian_m wrote: »

I was in a similar situation to yourself when I took up mountain biking over a year ago. I used to always hit the gym three times a week religiously along with a few hours of astro soccer and loved it. As the cycling bug bit harder and I wanted to get out on the bike more I found all three harder to manage time wise. I managed to fit it all in along with work with a bit of planning. For a few weeks over the summer just gone my gym was inaccessible so weights were out. I instantly noticed my times and power on the bike improving.. I am not big up on the science side of things, maybe my diet was not what it should have been to make it all work but I think there is only so much I could extract. Now I only do the gym one night a week. My weight lifting strength has dropped back but for me the buzz of constantly getting faster and stronger on the bike is surpassing the enjoyment I get from the weights. I was not really into bulk building in the gym so I have not lost a mad amount of weight from the cycling...I think I will try using some weights at home like Paddie has done, this would allow me to spread the workouts out a bit more evenly and maybe get better results.

Thanks brian_m appreciate your feedback. Time is an issue with life being life but I'll try and stick with it. If I find I can't reach the goals I want in cycling I'll have a rethink about the gym. I was absolutely clueless about cycling before I began, I really underestimated the work it takes to get to a respectable standard. I got into to it to get fit but now I want to try get to a standard were I can do the big sportives and get healthy enough so I don't keel over beforeI'm 40!

Roger Hassenforder

IMO the fast twitch muscles you were targetting for the rugby esp. upper body would be a hinderance for cycling (particulalry on the hills) when you need slow twitch guns to power you. ease off on the weight, but do higher reps.
that said a strong core is great for all sports.

Harrybelafonte

Forget hills and come track cycling with all the other ex rugger players and weight lifters.

dario28

detones wrote: »

180cm 87kg, I'm eating a lot, not sure of cals but I know if I improve the quality of what I eat and eat smaller more regular meals it would help. I need to particulary focus on refuelling after a long cycle properly and not horse down a half tin if roses like i did last Saturday after a spin!

Post up your diet - Get myfitnesspal app and ya can track your cals

3000 cals would equal

protein shake with water
Brekki - 50g of porridge and banana with 3 eggs
1st snack - 3 eggs and a home made bar consisting of oats nuts maple syrup protein powder flaxseed
Lunch - breast of chicken sundried tomatoes in olive oil beetroot mange tout kidney beans chick peas and a mix of other legumes
2nd snack - handful of brown rice and either a fillet of fish or breast of chicken or tuna cooked with olive oil
Dinner - handful of brown rice or potato or brown pasta or sweet potato with brocolli and any meat
final Snack - either rice cakes with peanut butter and sliver of banana or crackers if not trying to put on weight , if trying to increase weight , thrown in a caesin protein shake with milk

Ya need to work out for yourself though what daily cals ya need http://exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

Then without getting too technical go 500 less to loose weight or 500 more to increase

dario28

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Wind assisted or not?

It was blowing south west - Ive graduated to the big ring all the way gang now

Doing 1 session a week with a handicapped climb at end of ya fancy it PM Me , its good craic

Lusk Doyle

dario28 wrote: »

It was blowing south west - Ive graduated to the big ring all the way gang now

Doing 1 session a week with a handicapped climb at end of ya fancy it PM Me , its good craic

Is that session with Phil?

dario28

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Is that session with Phil?

No just me and a few lads

manwithaplan

Is that session with Phil?

You called?

Myself and John R are trying to get a Thursday night regular Howth thing together. It's at time-pressed Da time - getting out there at 9pm or so. No mad efforts at this time of year. It's mostly backwards winter stuff where you spin on the flat in the small ring and go slowly up the hills in the big ring.

Greyspoke

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Forget hills and come track cycling with all the other ex rugger players and weight lifters.

I'd be very interested to hear what specific weights exercises are recommended for track cycling, also sets, reps, weights - heavy weights and few reps or lighter with more reps?

petethedrummer

Greyspoke wrote: »

I'd be very interested to hear what specific weights exercises are recommended for track cycling, also sets, reps, weights - heavy weights and few reps or lighter with more reps?

Chris Hoy.. Glad to see he gets DOMS too. I get that shocking bad.

Gym

“I will do two gym sessions a week, working for two hours. I’m doing a lot of work with weights at the moment and it just leaves you exhausted. You can’t really do more than two sessions because of the damage it does to you. It takes 48 hours for the pain to peak after a session — it’s called DOMS, delayed onset of muscles soreness.

"It’s the horrible feeling you get when you wake up and are in pain walking downstairs. I’m focused on doing really heavy weights for maybe four to 10 reps. You are basically looking to lift all you physically can for those repetitions in three main exercises: the squat, the deadlift and the leg press.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/8624200/London-2012-Olympics-Sir-Chris-Hoys-punishing-training-regime-ahead-of-the-Games.html

Lusk Doyle

manwithaplan wrote: »

You called?

Myself and John R are trying to get a Thursday night regular Howth thing together. It's at time-pressed Da time - getting out there at 9pm or so. No mad efforts at this time of year. It's mostly backwards winter stuff where you spin on the flat in the small ring and go slowly up the hills in the big ring.

I couldn't possibly train with you. You're the competition!

Harrybelafonte

Greyspoke wrote: »

I'd be very interested to hear what specific weights exercises are recommended for track cycling, also sets, reps, weights - heavy weights and few reps or lighter with more reps?

Oh, eh, big can of worms there. I'll just post something sprint specific:

http://upupup.aboc.com.au/the-book/04-off-the-bike-into-the-gym

As far as I know, low weight/high reps = endurance while highh weight/low reps = strength, everyone I know on the track who does weights has different routines and some don't do any gym work. I do gym work cos I dream of being swole.

Greyspoke

Thanks for that - I'll have a good look at that site.
Re the dreaded DOMS, I tend to do sets of high reps (30) on the leg press and its the kind of machine where you're lowering the weight at an angle (45*?) and I'm convinced its the eccentric contraction as you lower the weight that causes the damage (DOMS) - pushing it back up always seems relatively easy by comparison.
The resulting muscle pain can certainly be quite severe and I find it can take literally a couple of weeks before my legs feel the benefit on the bike.
As regards back squats, I generally wouldn't do sets of more than 10 reps, a chronically slightly sore lower back usually being the limiting factor there.

Harrybelafonte

Also have back problems since playing rugby in my teens, but found yoga before the lifting helped and I also do leg speed drills after. I have no way of proving results tbh, it could all be placebo but I feel better after.

Keep_Her_Lit

Lumen wrote: »

Wanting to achieve or maintain a certain physical shape for its own sake is a ridiculous, narcissistic objective. With respect, get over it. :pac:

That’s uncharacteristically harsh for you, Lumen!

Lumen wrote: »

I'm not throwing stones - I have plenty of ridiculous, narcissistic objectives myself.

.. though I’m glad to see that you backtracked fairly quickly.

I don’t think many people are completely oblivious to their body shape. Maybe that indicates some shallowness in our culture. On the other hand, our bodies are designed to be fit and athletic, so it seems natural to want to strive for such a state.

In that respect, I can certainly understand the OP’s point. Significant progress in the gym is hard won and you’re not going to want to see that being whittled away if it’s at all preventable.

With respect to self-image / vanity / narcissism, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to state that I would rather not look like this …



… or this …



… or this …



I enjoy a bit of weight training, albeit sporadically, in the brief pauses between life’s varying demands. However, I don’t think that cycling and weight training readily complement each other. If you try to raise the intensity of both at the same time, you end up never feeling fresh – the soreness and tightness from the leg work prevents you from going hard on the bike, while time spent on the bike prolongs the recovery from the previous gym session, slowing progress with the weights also.

That said, there are some benefits. Squats and deadlifts definitely increase the maximum torque you can generate at the cranks. You can mash a bigger gear when the occasion demands or accelerate hard without having to get out of the saddle – a good way to catch wheel suckers off guard.

I’ve never gained more than a few kg by weight training. But in strength terms, those few kg can give you a lot of bang for your buck, relative to your untrained strength. Quite a lot of strength can be gained through conditioning alone, before even considering any gains in lean mass.

Just like cycling, weight training doesn’t have to be undertaken as a means to an end. In the same way that a cycle can be an enjoyable challenge in its own right, so can a session in the gym. Beating your PB on favourite hillclimb is rewarding. And so is beating your PB for chin-ups, dips or squats.

It’s interesting to hear cyclists’ views on weight training. And it’s also worth hearing weight lifters’ views on cycling. Mark Rippetoe has written some very good introductory texts on weight training. So pay close attention to his insightful views on cycling …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iL7DdAKnAc