The Powers of Darkness

WilliamMelmoth

I recently returned from a Gathering in Prague, whose name Praha means 'Threshold', which has links to borders and limits. I was thinking how this relates to the concept of Darkness [something close to my black heart] as both a kind of primogenial Chaos and awaiting potential. But many see the concept of Darkness as frightening due to that 'unknown' that Darkness conceals. I for one use Darkness in my own Initiation for Self transformation both subjectively [that ability to absorb light, opening oneSelf up to knowledge that proceeds influence] and operatively [covertly putting what wisdom I have learned to the test in the world of man]. Darkness for me creates unlimited space for my innermost Self to grow and aids me in seeking out those experiences that cause Xeper [self-directed individual refinement].

As Darkness is created by asking questions, I thought I would ask a few of my own. I was wondering, what are your thoughts about working with Darkness?
How do you define Darkness? Can you use it? Do you choose not to use it? If not, why not?

Xeper

Will

maguffin

WilliamMelmoth wrote: »

I recently returned from a Gathering in Prague, whose name Praha means 'Threshold', which has links to borders and limits. I was thinking how this relates to the concept of Darkness [something close to my black heart] as both a kind of primogenial Chaos and awaiting potential. But many see the concept of Darkness as frightening due to that 'unknown' that Darkness conceals. I for one use Darkness in my own Initiation for Self transformation both subjectively [that ability to absorb light, opening oneSelf up to knowledge that proceeds influence] and operatively [covertly putting what wisdom I have learned to the test in the world of man]. Darkness for me creates unlimited space for my innermost Self to grow and aids me in seeking out those experiences that cause Xeper [self-directed individual refinement].

As Darkness is created by asking questions, I thought I would ask a few of my own. I was wondering, what are your thoughts about working with Darkness?
How do you define Darkness? Can you use it? Do you choose not to use it? If not, why not?

Xeper

Will

By 'darkness' I expect you are talking about 'darkness of mind', 'darkness of intent', 'darkness of spirit', 'darkness of soul'..etc as opposed to the Light (..of compassion, love, humility, goodness, Life..etc).
Of course 'darkness' can be used, but if, as you have stated, you have a dark heart, how can it be used other than for personal gain at the expense of those who are frightened by the 'dark actions' of others?

I did notice that in another post here you said that 'if you were an acorn, you would prefer to fall far from the tree and grow into a mighty oak rather than fall near the root and be absorbed back into the tree'....this is at odds with you sentiments in this post since an acorn must fall into the Light in order for it to nourish.

How do you use the 'darkness'??

WilliamMelmoth

Hi maguffin,

By 'darkness' I expect you are talking about 'darkness of mind', 'darkness of intent', 'darkness of spirit', 'darkness of soul'..etc as opposed to the Light (..of compassion, love, humility, goodness, Life..etc).

I am speaking of Darkness [big 'D'] as a symbol of something relating to the unknown and potential, not as an overlay of malevolence that runs contrary to the good. Although, there is that side to darkness also. I am interested in reading other peoples opinions about Darkness here.

Of course 'darkness' can be used, but if, as you have stated, you have a dark heart, how can it be used other than for personal gain at the expense of those who are frightened by the 'dark actions' of others?

Not always, this is a common misconception. For example, as someone who uses Black Magic I have put a curse on people who are cruel to animals. One such individual I seen throwing puppies gleefully off a bridge into a river whilst being recorded on an iPhone. Not only did I call the authorities on this disgusting person I cursed them ritually that they suffer night terrors.

I did notice that in another post here you said that 'if you were an acorn, you would prefer to fall far from the tree and grow into a mighty oak rather than fall near the root and be absorbed back into the tree'....this is at odds with you sentiments in this post since an acorn must fall into the Light in order for it to nourish.

Yes, I did write that. It was an analogy used in relation to obliterating the Self to some outward standard or belief and is differnt to what we are speaking of here. Besides, we are talking about metaphor not botany, right?!?

We experience the world through the light. I mean, we know it through the light, through our senses. As a sensible villager I know thats a car, thats a river, thats a dog etc. They were those things yesterday and will be those things tomorrow. They have meanings and continuity as clear to me as the physical form of my hand as I hold it up in front of my face.
I am proposing that Darkness is different to that. Darkness is the place of imagination and speculation. For example, what if we build a bridge across the river or go trade with other villages? These are ideas that cannot be seen in the world of light, but if they are made real they bring new possibilities - many of which could NEVER be known. Now that may be a good thing and lead to great art, or a bad thing and bring a plague to our village across the bridge from places a far. But Darkness is not about that, it is about freedom of the Self to imagine and bring more Darkness into the world without. Darkness as unfettered potential.

Xeper

Will

maguffin

WilliamMelmoth wrote: »

Hi maguffin,


I am speaking of Darkness [big 'D'] as a symbol of something relating to the unknown and potential, not as an overlay of malevolence that runs contrary to the good.

I do not agree that the word 'darkness' is a good choice of words to be symbolic of that which is unknown or has potential....a better choice, perhaps, would be 'Hidden' or 'Unformed'. The use of the word 'darkness' has implications that can easily be mis-construed.

Not always, this is a common misconception. For example, as someone who uses Black Magic I have put a curse on people who are cruel to animals. One such individual I seen throwing puppies gleefully off a bridge into a river whilst being recorded on an iPhone. Not only did I call the authorities on this disgusting person I cursed them ritually that they suffer night terrors.

Was it not enough that you reported him? Also, you have no empirical evidence that the curse ever had any effect. are you not simply 'stabbing in the dark'?

We experience the world through the light. I mean, we know it through the light, through our senses. As a sensible villager I know thats a car, thats a river, thats a dog etc. They were those things yesterday and will be those things tomorrow. They have meanings and continuity as clear to me as the physical form of my hand as I hold it up in front of my face.
I am proposing that Darkness is different to that. Darkness is the place of imagination and speculation. For example, what if we build a bridge across the river or go trade with other villages? These are ideas that cannot be seen in the world of light, but if they are made real they bring new possibilities - many of which could NEVER be known. Now that may be a good thing and lead to great art, or a bad thing and bring a plague to our village across the bridge from places a far. But Darkness is not about that, it is about freedom of the Self to imagine and bring more Darkness into the world without. Darkness as unfettered potential.

You speak in a rather archaic fashion, the use of 'village(r)', 'plague'...why is that?
Our imaginations are not confined to any sort of darkness...although they may contain dark things.

Oryx

I also want to know why you use darkness as a metaphor for potential and the unknown.

We are conditioned to fear darkness. Does the work you do or your belief system use fear as a tool, and what is its place in your 'Black Magic'?

angelman121

WilliamMelmoth wrote: »

I recently returned from a Gathering in Prague, whose name Praha means 'Threshold', which has links to borders and limits. I was thinking how this relates to the concept of Darkness [something close to my black heart] as both a kind of primogenial Chaos and awaiting potential. But many see the concept of Darkness as frightening due to that 'unknown' that Darkness conceals. I for one use Darkness in my own Initiation for Self transformation both subjectively [that ability to absorb light, opening oneSelf up to knowledge that proceeds influence] and operatively [covertly putting what wisdom I have learned to the test in the world of man]. Darkness for me creates unlimited space for my innermost Self to grow and aids me in seeking out those experiences that cause Xeper [self-directed individual refinement].

As Darkness is created by asking questions, I thought I would ask a few of my own. I was wondering, what are your thoughts about working with Darkness?
How do you define Darkness? Can you use it? Do you choose not to use it? If not, why not?

Xeper

Will

I choose light by not asking questions, the wisest words I know and use are 'I do not know', I work with darkness purely to show myself and others that which I/they do not want to keep any more, such as anger, sadness, hate, even wanting, dreaming and desiring or controlling, manipulating, judging and condemning.

I would define darkness simply as light of another colour, with the purity of love and light being it's underlining ingredient, on it's own it's useless and powerless. it derives it's perceived power from it's own thoughts.

I choose not to use it (anymore/again) as it takes me away from the peace that I am.

All the oak trees will be absorbed back into the earth from which they grow out of, but not away from, it's simply a matter of time.

WilliamMelmoth

Oryx wrote: »

I also want to know why you use darkness as a metaphor for potential and the unknown.

The Darkness I work with preexists everything, including the differentiation of matter. The dualism of light and dark does not rise as some formula of goodness/badness or any kind of morality [as is suggested above] until this primordial Darkness has been split up into light and dark. The pure concept of Darkness, is not, as is found in some symbolic traditions, identified with gloom or misery or malevolency. Actually, quite the opposite as it is a state of undeveloped potentialities, the place of imagination to run its freest.

Unknown things have been the subject of fear and fascination throughout the history of humanity, just look at old maps of the seas that described Northern parts as terra incognita. The human imagination filled these then unknown areas of the world with dragons, sea monsters and magicians and shamans of great Magical powers.

It is through the Darkness that I learn new things and evolve. From a Left Hand Path perspective, Darkness can be said to be something where our own potential as human beings awaits its further actualisation.

We are conditioned to fear darkness. Does the work you do or your belief system use fear as a tool, and what is its place in your 'Black Magic'?

Good question. Conditioning I have little use for as I worked hard at de-conditioning myself, nor do I have use for any irrational fears as that works in opposition to any intentional act of Will [Black Magic]. I can use rational fear in my Initiation, definitely, as it heightens ones senses and awareness in the moment. Fear focuses attention or investigation, fear creates adrenaline for increased effort [sometimes an exceptional increase] and fear sharpens perception for effective action. Now I am speaking specifically about rational fear NOT irrational fear [which can paralyze]. The overcoming of fear is a common task for those who strive for independence.
Not all Black Magic is scary btw, fear is not a necessity for a Black Magic working, you can use other emotions too like joy or ecstasy. It depends on what you aims are, what your intentions are.

maguffin

WilliamMelmoth wrote: »

The Darkness I work with preexists everything, including the differentiation of matter. The dualism of light and dark does not rise as some formula of goodness/badness or any kind of morality [as is suggested above] until this primordial Darkness has been split up into light and dark.

How was your 'darkness' split into light/dark? What initiated it?

Are you referencing the proposed 'void' that pre-existed before all matter in the universe came into being (Big Bang theory) or the unformed thought in the mind of (a yet to be proven) god? (Creationism)

It is through the Darkness that I learn new things and evolve. From a Left Hand Path perspective, Darkness can be said to be something where our own potential as human beings awaits its further actualisation.

Would you not agree that you learn new things and evolve through interaction with the world around you (family, friends, work, tv, internet, etc) rather than through some mental darkness?
I certainly do not regard my potential as a human being to reside anywhere that could be termed 'darkness'

Not all Black Magic is scary btw, fear is not a necessity for a Black Magic working, you can use other emotions too like joy or ecstasy. It depends on what you aims are, what your intentions are.

Magic is just magic...it is neither black or white...it is the mind of the individual that uses it that offers it it's colour.

WilliamMelmoth

maguffin wrote: »

How was your 'darkness' split into light/dark? What initiated it?

Good question and a tricky one to answer without slipping into sacred geometry or something mystical :P
I would say consciousness is what initiated it as awareness of this duality [light/ dark, Yin / Yang, Horus / Set etc] requires choice or judgement. Ironically, to experience that one must travel past duality, pure duality has no room for judgement between the two, there is only one or the other. Thast why the devil carries a trident and his number is 3!

Are you referencing the proposed 'void' that pre-existed before all matter in the universe came into being (Big Bang theory) or the unformed thought in the mind of (a yet to be proven) god? (Creationism)

What I am talking about has no room for that kind of differentiation, you have already moved into duality there.

Would you not agree that you learn new things and evolve through interaction with the world around you (family, friends, work, tv, internet, etc)

Of course, magic does not occur within the magical chamber, its only illustrated there. How else am I supposed to realise my goals? Certainly not by locking myself away in a basement. Black Magic involves engaging in some activity in the world to actualise THAT which one perceived about the Self in the Darkness.
Boundless Darkness allows one to experience self intuited goals. When this is combined with a Working or ritual it can result in an internally wrought change, the aligning of outer action with this internal change is what allows the Black Magician to transform him/herself.

Magic is just magic...it is neither black or white...it is the mind of the individual that uses it that offers it it's colour.

Whilst I agree most magic can transend the intellect, I do see an differentiation between the two. As I understand it, Black Magic is an exercise in independence and the pursuit of self orientated aims. White magic is a methodology pursuing harmony with some outward standard normally in the form of some faith based system.

Great questions though, thank you.

maguffin

WilliamMelmoth wrote: »

Good question and a tricky one to answer without slipping into sacred geometry or something mystical :P
I would say consciousness is what initiated it as awareness of this duality [light/ dark, Yin / Yang, Horus / Set etc] requires choice or judgement.

That, to me, implies you seem to accept the presence of some pre-existing conscious being (god?) that possessed this 'awareness' of duality...that it was his/her/it's thought that split your 'darkness'.

Thast why the devil carries a trident and his number is 3!

That representation is the work of medieval artists who sought to portray 'the evil one' in a more frightful way. A trident is mostly associated with the god Poseidon.

What I am talking about has no room for that kind of differentiation, you have already moved into duality there.

The duality was meerly in the question, not the content.

Of course, magic does not occur within the magical chamber, its only illustrated there. How else am I supposed to realise my goals? Certainly not by locking myself away in a basement. Black Magic involves engaging in some activity in the world to actualise THAT which one perceived about the Self in the Darkness.

I percieve without 'darkness' or magic and yet I realise my goals..always have, and continue to do so....just by being alive and thinking.

Boundless Darkness allows one to experience self intuited goals. When this is combined with a Working or ritual it can result in an internally wrought change, the aligning of outer action with this internal change is what allows the Black Magician to transform him/herself.

Transform into what?

Whilst I agree most magic can transend the intellect, I do see an differentiation between the two. As I understand it, Black Magic is an exercise in independence and the pursuit of self orientated aims. White magic is a methodology pursuing harmony with some outward standard normally in the form of some faith based system.

Don't agree....I do not practice magic of any kind and am not associated with a 'faith based system' yet I continue to pursue my aims, in harmony with all around me and without any form of 'darkness'.....how do you explain that?

Great questions though, thank you.

Thanks

MyNameIsMethos

This pedanticism is hilarious.

Eiriu

Darkness is but a branch on the tree of creation.

it is controlled and created by God. If you are attracted to it you are going the wrong way. but you may be close to the right way.

At least you are thinking. Questioning.

MyNameIsMethos

Eiriu wrote: »

Darkness is but a branch on the tree of creation.

it is controlled and created by God.

Though the use of the term, "God", sort of gives me the shivers, I´ll run with it. Following your premise, that Darkness is but a branch of the tree of creation, how can it be a negative especially if it was created and is controlled by the same being I presume you designate the creation of light, for (another assumption) the express reason to define the light?

In either case, nigh alll arguements here seem to be glossing over the definition of Darkness supplied by WilliamMelmoth:

~ad lib~
Darkness, but not in the sense of evil;
Darkness in the sense of alternative knowledge, thoughts and/or action/s contrary to that of the status quo.

Looked at in that, the expressed, sense, how can it be a bad thing? In the realm of philosophy, we still hold high the ideas of the Greek scholars. Some of whom professed that all knowledge was to be shunned, but that knoowledge that oneself comes to by ones own rational. Otherwise, what distinguishes the truth from a lie, but the belief of the liistener in the speaker? (I could also argue the point that a phd generally requires the partaker to do their own study, rather then to accept the parameters of pre-existing knowledge, to reach their goal). If a person studies a subject, but reaches a conclusion that flies in the face of pre-existing knowledge, then by the counter-arguements being proposed here, that knowledge is evil and opposed to the "light".

-I wish I could have been more eloquant and specific here but I am tired, and may throw in a few future edits.

Eiriu

MyNameIsMethos wrote: »

Though the use of the term, "God", sort of gives me the shivers, I´ll run with it. Following your premise, that Darkness is but a branch of the tree of creation, how can it be a negative especially if it was created and is controlled by the same being I presume you designate the creation of light, for (another assumption) the express reason to define the light?

In either case, nigh alll arguements here seem to be glossing over the definition of Darkness supplied by WilliamMelmoth:

~ad lib~
Darkness, but not in the sense of evil;
Darkness in the sense of alternative knowledge, thoughts and/or action/s contrary to that of the status quo.

Looked at in that, the expressed, sense, how can it be a bad thing? In the realm of philosophy, we still hold high the ideas of the Greek scholars. Some of whom professed that all knowledge was to be shunned, but that knoowledge that oneself comes to by ones own rational. Otherwise, what distinguishes the truth from a lie, but the belief of the liistener in the speaker? (I could also argue the point that a phd generally requires the partaker to do their own study, rather then to accept the parameters of pre-existing knowledge, to reach their goal). If a person studies a subject, but reaches a conclusion that flies in the face of pre-existing knowledge, then by the counter-arguements being proposed here, that knowledge is evil and opposed to the "light".

-I wish I could have been more eloquant and specific here but I am tired, and may throw in a few future edits.

Sorry I should have started with how well written and well thought out your post was.

Hercalateon, the Greek Philosopher is worth reading, he talks about the paradoxes of life.

People forget that it is a personal journey. I personally believe that we are at the beginning of a new World, a mass enlightenment.

William Welmoths definition of darkness, is the definition of the path to light.
discard religion and the status quo. Your relationship with God is something you paint yourself. Listen to "the Writer"- Ellie Goulding

Without evil, there is no good. God created evil to make love but controls the two. God is not the christian defined one, but the one mentioned by every religion. God is everything, everywhere and in everyone.

WilliamMelmoth

God created evil to make love but controls the two. God is not the christian defined one, but the one mentioned by every religion. God is everything, everywhere and in everyone..

That sounds pretty Christian to me