Number of clubs in County Championships

lala88

Was talking to someone the other day and they told me there are only 8 senior teams in the Mayo championship would have taught it was more. Kilkenny also have only 12 senior hurling clubs. Dublin would have well over 20 in both i would think but they haven't had much success out of it at intercounty level.

So 2 questions. First is it better to have a small number of good clubs instead of alot of clubs when alot might not be up to it. Second how many senior clubs are there in both football & hurling in each county?

Davin Stand

Tipperary - SHC 32 teams; SFC 19 teams.

blue note

Davin Stand wrote: »

Tipperary - SHC 32 teams; SFC 19 teams.

That's an enormous amour of clubs codding themselves about what level they're at!

fearruanua

32 senior hurling teams in the one county?? really??

fearruanua

Galway
21 senior football and for 2013 there will be 22 senior hurling clubs due to no team being relegated to intermediate this year due to a dispute ,re relegation, between certain clubs and the county board

Tom Joad

15 Senior Football Clubs in Cavan in 2012 - way too many and county champions performance in Ulster reflects this - terrible standard of club football but senior championship is being restructured next year in an attempt to improve things with amalgmations etc.

Intrested thing on that is that only Laois and Leitrim have more senior football clubs per head of population that Cavan.

68Murph68

For a lot of clubs its an ego thing, being able to say they are a senior club.

I think it was 11 senior clubs in the county championship this year and 9 divisional sides in Kerry

When you look at Kerry clubs success in terms of the intermediate and junior All-Ireland club championships its hard to argue that things arent at the right level.

To be a senior club you should have some sort of chance of winning your county's top competition. Defining "some sort of chance" is difficult but if you have lost in the first round of a knock-out competition three years in a row I don't think you should get a fourth chance.

jordainius

lala88 wrote: »

Was talking to someone the other day and they told me there are only 8 senior teams in the Mayo championship would have taught it was more. Kilkenny also have only 12 senior hurling clubs. Dublin would have well over 20 in both i would think but they haven't had much success out of it at intercounty level.

So 2 questions. First is it better to have a small number of good clubs instead of alot of clubs when alot might not be up to it. Second how many senior clubs are there in both football & hurling in each county?

There are 16 teams in the Mayo football championship, maybe there's 8 in hurling but that would be about right for a county of that standard. 16 teams in the Dublin SHC

Limerick has 12 football and 16 hurling clubs at senior.

In general, less than 12 is too few (except in the case of weaker hurling counties) and more than 16 is too many. 16 is the most flexible number in terms of championship structures.

jordainius

68Murph68 wrote: »

For a lot of clubs its an ego thing, being able to say they are a senior club.

I think it was 11 senior clubs in the county championship this year and 9 divisional sides in Kerry

When you look at Kerry clubs success in terms of the intermediate and junior All-Ireland club championships its hard to argue that things arent at the right level.

Its not necessarily an ego thing. One small example in Limerick; Croom and Bruree were both due to play the Intermediate football relegation final but both teams actually requested to go down to Junior so the game won't be played and it looks like the runner up of the Junior A final will also be promoted this year. Both teams gave up the chance to remain Intermediate as they felt Junior football would be more suitable next year, so I don't really buy the ego thing. I hear many people saying the same thing about a handful of senior hurling clubs in Limerick. It's not about saying "We're a senior club", its about actually "playing" senior football/hurling.

To be a senior club you should have some sort of chance of winning your county's top competition. Defining "some sort of chance" is difficult but if you have lost in the first round of a knock-out competition three years in a row I don't think you should get a fourth chance.

No. Take the All-Ireland SHC, arguably only 2 or 3 teams every year are capable of winning it (some may even argue that only Kilkenny are capable of winning it.), it would be madness to restrict that particular championship to teams only considered to have a chance of winning it.

There will always be teams that make up the numbers but some of those teams are capable of being competetive at senior level while at the same time not being considered capable of winning it out. So long as they're not getting hammered year in year out its no harm and its probably better for a club to be an average middle of the road senior team than a strong intermediate team- its better for clubs and players to be playing a higher standard of hurling/football where possible.

premierstone

fearruanua wrote: »

32 senior hurling teams in the one county?? really??

Yeah its farcical really, a number of years ago they removed relegation and with the Intermediate champions automatically been promoted numbers swelled, infact they then went even further 3 or 4 years ago and allowed any team to promote themselves to Senior by filling out an application form :rolleyes:

Relegation has been re-introduced which is a start but the popular opinion within Tipp is a further step needs to be taken and more than one team relegated for a few years, 24 teams should be the minimum target, 16 or 20 probably more realistic. The matter is further confused by the existance of divisional championships in Tipp and the fact that the 4 divisions are pretty uneven.

BnB

In Hurling in Clare it is currently 20 but the plan is in place to reduce it. At the end of the 2013 season, there will be 5 teams relegated to Intermediate. And with only the winners of Intermediate coming up, that'll leave 16 teams for 2014 which is about right.

jordainius

BnB wrote: »

In Hurling in Clare it is currently 20 but the plan is in place to reduce it. At the end of the 2013 season, there will be 5 teams relegated to Intermediate. And with only the winners of Intermediate coming up, that'll leave 16 teams for 2014 which is about right.

Never understood why Clare had so many senior teams, how is Clare set up at Intermediate and Junior level? (And why don't they enter the Munster club Junior hurling championship?)

Carawaystick

68Murph68 wrote: »

To be a senior club you should have some sort of chance of winning your county's top competition. Defining "some sort of chance" is difficult but if you have lost in the first round of a knock-out competition three years in a row I don't think you should get a fourth chance.

Harsh, half the teams loose first round matches

If you've a dominant team like Crossmaglen or Nemo or Baltinglass winning years on end, how do you define some sort of chance?

Anyway if ya don't like it in your own county, use the labyrinthine democratic structures to get the delegates on the county board to (vote for xmas) change the number

CrabRevolution

12 Senior Hurling clubs in Meath. Going to be 18 teams in the senior football next year.

We had 16 senior teams for years till 2009, but one club who had lost every game all year looked down every legal technicality to avoid relegation. They had some complant about permission from the team not being given for extra time in a playoff they lost. Rather than being told where to go, or at least a replay being arranged, they were allowed to stay up in a lopsided 17 team championship. (By sheer coincidence the county chairman is from this club)

Clubs started getting annoyed with the bye created by an uneven number of teams, but instead of going back to sixteen teams, our senior football championship is being swelled to 18 teams.

BnB

jordainius wrote: »

Never understood why Clare had so many senior teams, how is Clare set up at Intermediate and Junior level? (And why don't they enter the Munster club Junior hurling championship?)

Yeah - We've had too many for a long time. There is 3 levels of teams in Senior in Clare. The top level of about 5 or 6 clubs who are serious contenders. At the moment, this would be Newmarket, The Bridge, Cratloe, Clonlara, Crusheen - Maybe Kilmaley, Inagh-Kilnamona. The next level then you have about 7 or 8 teams who are probably not serious contenders, but are well worth their place in Senior and are well capable of coming out of a group. But then at the end, you have about 4 or 5 clubs who really are Intermediate level.

And all grades have suffered down along as a result. The Intermediate this year was very weak. Crusheen's second team reached and could very easily have won the final. Now, fair play to them for getting there, but it is just a sign of how weak the Competition is.

This year the entire Junior A Championship was made up of second teams and it has been that way for a few years. (Which I think is why they don't enter the Munster Junior - Are second teams allowed in this ?) And there were only 2 First teams in Junior B & C. And they were from very small clubs.

So basically, Every single club in Clare bar 2 is either Senior or Intermediate...!!!!!

But at least they are sorting it out now. The plan to relegate 5 next year and have 16 Senior in 2014 is written in stone. There could be some fair cuttin' at the sh1tty end of the Senior Championship next year. At least one "big" club is bound to have a bad year and get caught up in it. Fun & Games...!!!

Hesh's Umpire

16 senior football teams in Laois. Way too many.

68Murph68

jordainius wrote: »

Its not necessarily an ego thing.

Not in all cases but a lot of cases it is - see the example CrabRevolution gave of the the club in Meath and of the case in Galway where some clubs are doing everything in their power off field to retain their senior status. Rather than accepting on-field results and dropping down, they use every sort of legality and trick in the book to avoid dropping down.

jordainius wrote: »

No. Take the All-Ireland SHC, arguably only 2 or 3 teams every year are capable of winning it (some may even argue that only Kilkenny are capable of winning it.), it would be madness to restrict that particular championship to teams only considered to have a chance of winning it.

The thing I mentioned in my post is restricting it to teams "considered to have a chance of winning it". I wasnt saying that only sides with a strong/decent of strong chance. I was basically saying that long-shots do have a place but no-hopers dont have a place.

Also your point would be somewhat stronger if the current SHC isn't already restricted to teams considered to have a chance of winning it.

Carawaystick wrote: »

Harsh, half the teams loose first round matches

Yes half the teams loose first round matches but how many teams lose in the first round of a knock-out championship three years running?

If a team has lost three years in row there have to be questions about whether they have any sort of place in the competition.

Even in terms of game time, would a side who lost three years in a row not be better off dropping down.

If they are worthy of their place in the senior competition they should have little to no problem earning it on the pitch.

lala88

CrabRevolution wrote: »

12 Senior Hurling clubs in Meath. Going to be 18 teams in the senior football next year.

We had 16 senior teams for years till 2009, but one club who had lost every game all year looked down every legal technicality to avoid relegation. They had some complant about permission from the team not being given for extra time in a playoff they lost. Rather than being told where to go, or at least a replay being arranged, they were allowed to stay up in a lopsided 17 team championship. (By sheer coincidence the county chairman is from this club)

Clubs started getting annoyed with the bye created by an uneven number of teams, but instead of going back to sixteen teams, our senior football championship is being swelled to 18 teams.

Same thing was happening for year with John Mitchels, they even lost a relegation plsy off one year but still managed to stay up. Finally were relegated 5/6 years about despite the fact it should have happened 10/15 years before

Max Power

16 teams in the senior championship, 16 in intermediate and 10 junior in Kildare

ormond lad

premierstone wrote: »

Yeah its farcical really, a number of years ago they removed relegation and with the Intermediate champions automatically been promoted numbers swelled, infact they then went even further 3 or 4 years ago and allowed any team to promote themselves to Senior by filling out an application form :rolleyes:

Relegation has been re-introduced which is a start but the popular opinion within Tipp is a further step needs to be taken and more than one team relegated for a few years, 24 teams should be the minimum target, 16 or 20 probably more realistic. The matter is further confused by the existance of divisional championships in Tipp and the fact that the 4 divisions are pretty uneven.

24 should be the minimum but i cant see it going down to 16/20. Can you?
yeah the divisions are way too uneven like the north senior championship had 12 clubs this year yet the north intermediate championship only had 5 clubs. ideally the north snr championship should have 8 clubs with the i'mediate 9 clubs or something very close to that.
The divisions are very uneven. max number of senior clubs any of the divisions should have is 8

ArmaniJeanss

68Murph68 wrote: »

If a team has lost three years in row there have to be questions about whether they have any sort of place in the competition.

Even in terms of game time, would a side who lost three years in a row not be better off dropping down.

If they are worthy of their place in the senior competition they should have little to no problem earning it on the pitch.

Its an open draw in most counties afaik, so its statistically quite likely that the fifth or sixth best team in the county get unlucky 3 years running and comes up against one of the top 4 teams. Under your proposal they'd get relegated.

Meanwhile the 17 and 18th best get drawn against each other two years running and share a victory each. They'd be safe.

fearruanua

fearruanua wrote: »

32 senior hurling teams in the one county?? really??

Yep, head over to our gaa forum and as you can imagine its evoked much discussion. All down to politics of course and not the general ability of these teams Some of the games are ridiculously one sided and thats at the latter stages of the championship.

premierstone

ormond lad wrote: »

24 should be the minimum but i cant see it going down to 16/20. Can you?
yeah the divisions are way too uneven like the north senior championship had 12 clubs this year yet the north intermediate championship only had 5 clubs. ideally the north snr championship should have 8 clubs with the i'mediate 9 clubs or something very close to that.
The divisions are very uneven. max number of senior clubs any of the divisions should have is 8

We need to scrap the divisional championships altogether tbh and have a stand alone county championship, next year in the North like you say we have a farcical situation where there will be 13 Senior Teams and 4Intermediate, and to make matters worse none of those Senior teams have a realistic chance of winning a county final.

ormond lad

premierstone wrote: »

We need to scrap the divisional championships altogether tbh and have a stand alone county championship, next year in the North like you say we have a farcical situation where there will be 13 Senior Teams and 4Intermediate, and to make matters worse none of those Senior teams have a realistic chance of winning a county final.

scrapping the divisional championships is not the way forward. keep the divisional championships as it gives the likes of port, burgess etc the chance of winning something. only a small number of clubs will win or reach the final stages of the county championship while with a bit of luck could poss win their division.

premierstone

ormond lad wrote: »

scrapping the divisional championships is not the way forward. keep the divisional championships as it gives the likes of port, burgess etc the chance of winning something. only a small number of clubs will win or reach the final stages of the county championship while with a bit of luck could poss win their division.

Play it as a stand alone competition in place of the farce that is the County League and let any North Club enter, like the Hogan Cup years ago.

ciarriaithuaidh

Can't understand those saying "16 is way too many teams"...16 is a fine number. A club c/ship is about more than just whoever wins it..its about developing footballers/hurlers for a step up to intercounty level, its about allowing players who will never make a county panel the chance to win titles on a provincial and national level and it should also be about allowing players from weaker/smaller clubs the chance to play at the highest possible level within their county.

That last point there leads on to the discussion about divisional/amalgamated teams. I have often found myself in debates with GAA people from other counties about the Kerry c/ship and the various divisional sides that compete in it.
Some. don't like the idea or don't understand how it can happen. To me, it works because of the reasons stated above. EVERY club player in Kerry, from Division 5 up to Division 1 (thats the county league I'm talking about..another vital element in Kerry football) has a chance to play County Senior C/ship football.

There are 20 teams (I think) in the Kerry football c/ship right now and while not all of them have a chance of winning the thing, I wouldn't change the system much at all.

david.1976

Tipp has far too many 'senior' hurling clubs at present. Don't know the exact stats but i'd guess only 6 different clubs have won the county final over the last 25 years - toomevara, sarsfields, loughmore, drom, nenagh and mullinahone. Maybe thats the norm for most of the established hurling counties. Far too many clubs are just going through the motions and have no realistic chance of winning a county title. this keeps their standard at a consistently low level and drains them of real ambition. The very odd year a smaller club will go on a good run and may take a big scalp, but this rarely happens. The tipp club championship has alot of irrelevant matches with predicatble results and therefore the cutting edge is taken out of it for most of the summer. Also, like the inter county provincial system, winning your division is absolutely no help whatsoever in competing for county honours.

Realistically there are about 12 clubs that are really competitive (a poor reflection of the whole county given its size and population and its undoubted hurling tradition) The championship should be confined to these clubs. This would allow a really competitve intemediate c'ship and give many more clubs a real shot at winning a county c'ship. I know many really good players who play with 'senior' clubs who will never ever win any major honours. Winning a hard intemediate c'ship would surely be something that they could aspire to.

Clubs have to earn the right to have senior status. Am I wrong in saying that Aherlow reluctantly went into the senior c'ship?? Some clubs only ambition is to avoid relegation year in year out with little emphasis on actually winning something. As I said earlier other clubs just exist in senior limbo for years and just do nothing really!!

The overall result of a slimmed down senior c'ship and a restructered intermediate c'ship would be an improved club championship at all grades and a better standard of hurling. but I doubt that this will ever happen as no club would voluteer to be regraded downwards while there would be no ambition co-operation at county board level to push through such a radical change.

tippman26

david.1976 wrote: »

Tipp has far too many 'senior' hurling clubs at present. Don't know the exact stats but i'd guess only 6 different clubs have won the county final over the last 25 years - toomevara, sarsfields, loughmore, drom, nenagh and mullinahone. Maybe thats the norm for most of the established hurling counties. Far too many clubs are just going through the motions and have no realistic chance of winning a county title. this keeps their standard at a consistently low level and drains them of real ambition. The very odd year a smaller club will go on a good run and may take a big scalp, but this rarely happens. The tipp club championship has alot of irrelevant matches with predicatble results and therefore the cutting edge is taken out of it for most of the summer. Also, like the inter county provincial system, winning your division is absolutely no help whatsoever in competing for county honours.

Realistically there are about 12 clubs that are really competitive (a poor reflection of the whole county given its size and population and its undoubted hurling tradition) The championship should be confined to these clubs. This would allow a really competitve intemediate c'ship and give many more clubs a real shot at winning a county c'ship. I know many really good players who play with 'senior' clubs who will never ever win any major honours. Winning a hard intemediate c'ship would surely be something that they could aspire to.

Clubs have to earn the right to have senior status. Am I wrong in saying that Aherlow reluctantly went into the senior c'ship?? Some clubs only ambition is to avoid relegation year in year out with little emphasis on actually winning something. As I said earlier other clubs just exist in senior limbo for years and just do nothing really!!

The overall result of a slimmed down senior c'ship and a restructered intermediate c'ship would be an improved club championship at all grades and a better standard of hurling. but I doubt that this will ever happen as no club would voluteer to be regraded downwards while there would be no ambition co-operation at county board level to push through such a radical change.

from 87(25 years ago)add in cappawhite,cashel,clonoulty,boherlahan and holycross

david.1976

david.1976 wrote: »

Tipp has far too many 'senior' hurling clubs at present. Don't know the exact stats but i'd guess only 6 different clubs have won the county final over the last 25 years - toomevara, sarsfields, loughmore, drom, nenagh and mullinahone. Maybe thats the norm for most of the established hurling counties. Far too many clubs are just going through the motions and have no realistic chance of winning a county title. this keeps their standard at a consistently low level and drains them of real ambition. The very odd year a smaller club will go on a good run and may take a big scalp, but this rarely happens. The tipp club championship has alot of irrelevant matches with predicatble results and therefore the cutting edge is taken out of it for most of the summer. Also, like the inter county provincial system, winning your division is absolutely no help whatsoever in competing for county honours.

Realistically there are about 12 clubs that are really competitive (a poor reflection of the whole county given its size and population and its undoubted hurling tradition) The championship should be confined to these clubs. This would allow a really competitve intemediate c'ship and give many more clubs a real shot at winning a county c'ship. I know many really good players who play with 'senior' clubs who will never ever win any major honours. Winning a hard intemediate c'ship would surely be something that they could aspire to.

Clubs have to earn the right to have senior status. Am I wrong in saying that Aherlow reluctantly went into the senior c'ship?? Some clubs only ambition is to avoid relegation year in year out with little emphasis on actually winning something. As I said earlier other clubs just exist in senior limbo for years and just do nothing really!!

The overall result of a slimmed down senior c'ship and a restructered intermediate c'ship would be an improved club championship at all grades and a better standard of hurling. but I doubt that this will ever happen as no club would voluteer to be regraded downwards while there would be no ambition co-operation at county board level to push through such a radical change.

Great post sir. Totally agree with everything you say

Tom Joad

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Can't understand those saying "16 is way too many teams"...16 is a fine number. A club c/ship is about more than just whoever wins it..its about developing footballers/hurlers for a step up to intercounty level, its about allowing players who will never make a county panel the chance to win titles on a provincial and national level and it should also be about allowing players from weaker/smaller clubs the chance to play at the highest possible level within their county.

That last point there leads on to the discussion about divisional/amalgamated teams. I have often found myself in debates with GAA people from other counties about the Kerry c/ship and the various divisional sides that compete in it.
Some. don't like the idea or don't understand how it can happen. To me, it works because of the reasons stated above. EVERY club player in Kerry, from Division 5 up to Division 1 (thats the county league I'm talking about..another vital element in Kerry football) has a chance to play County Senior C/ship football.

There are 20 teams (I think) in the Kerry football c/ship right now and while not all of them have a chance of winning the thing, I wouldn't change the system much at all.

Interesting post -especially since I have been advocating the Kerry model for Cavan for a long time and the County Board are going, albeit kicking and screaming in some cases, towards this model.

16 is a fine number of senior clubs in Kerry which has more than double the population of my own county - Cavan - and more participation in GAA. Cavan had 15 senior clubs this year and the standard is quite frankly awful - I've been to many a championship game in Kerry and the standard is miles ahead of that in Cavan. Everything else in your post I agree with and the key is that everyone in Kerry gets a chance to play senior level but also get to play at the correct level with the lads they grew up with.

In the Cavan senior club championship you have 6-7 teams that should not be playing senior football but go out every year give it their all and play 3-4 games. League is a joke with many meaningless matches/ walkovers/ one sided affairs so there is not much chance for players to develop skills at a serious level. Compare that to Kerry with a competitive league system, regional championships and then you can play intermediate/junior at club level and then amalgamate to play senior football.

david.1976

The auld memory ain't what it used to be - I'll never be like jimmy Magee! Interesting to see two west teams, Cappa and Cashel on the list. Where are they now? Both clubs are really struggling to make any impression on c'ship these days. Also Holycross and Boherlathan. Two more clubs with massive tradition and yet have gone way back in recent years. These are worrying times for Tipp if established clubs like these are struggling and are not making an impression at senior level. Perhaps like everything, all great things come to an end and empires have to be rebuilt. I can only suppose that these clubs failed to invest at underage for a number of years and are now paying the price. You only have to look at Drom or Loughmore to see how clubs who put in the ground work reap the benefits - two small rural clubs with barely 2000 people between them and the talent they have is very impressive and should continue for years to come. Which brings me back to my original point - certain clubs cling to their senior status dispite the fact that they are clearly not equiped for it eg Cashel, Cappa, Upperchurch, Moneygall, Ballingarry, Kickhams, etc etc (I'm not making friends here!!). Indeed alot of these clubs have failed to to make last 16 of county c'ship on a regular basis. Yet if the likes of these clubs were put into a intermedate c'chip it would make a fine competition. It would encourage clubs to really organise themselves to compete and win a county title. Imagine the good a county title would do for the likes of Moneygall or Ballingarry?? Winning adult titles along with investment in underage go hand in hand with building a better club. Population and resourses at hand should not really be an issue for these clubs because they are all fairly much the same in this regard. As said earlier Drom, loughmore and of course Killadangan have invested time and effort into underage and can play at a standard where they deserve senior status despite their limited resourse.

ciarriaithuaidh

Tom Joad wrote: »

Interesting post -especially since I have been advocating the Kerry model for Cavan for a long time and the County Board are going, albeit kicking and screaming in some cases, towards this model.

16 is a fine number of senior clubs in Kerry which has more than double the population of my own county - Cavan - and more participation in GAA. Cavan had 15 senior clubs this year and the standard is quite frankly awful - I've been to many a championship game in Kerry and the standard is miles ahead of that in Cavan. Everything else in your post I agree with and the key is that everyone in Kerry gets a chance to play senior level but also get to play at the correct level with the lads they grew up with.

In the Cavan senior club championship you have 6-7 teams that should not be playing senior football but go out every year give it their all and play 3-4 games. League is a joke with many meaningless matches/ walkovers/ one sided affairs so there is not much chance for players to develop skills at a serious level. Compare that to Kerry with a competitive league system, regional championships and then you can play intermediate/junior at club level and then amalgamate to play senior football.

This bit is key. I can't emphasise enough how good a competition the County league is in Kerry. It is taken seriously (unlike many other county's leagues..Cork being one I'm sure of) and gives every club at least 11 serious games per year. There is promotion and relegation of top/bottom 2 in each division. Its an excellent competition for development IMO.

Regional c/ships vary, but are all played when Co C/ships are over usually. The latest of them to finish is almost always my own..the North Kerry c/ship which would have a reputation for being not for the light, windy footballer shall we say!

Having lived in Cork, a major football county, for a long while...the structures in comparison are appalling in my view. The league (Kelleher Shield) is a joke..the first couple of games are taken seriously, then c/ship commences and if a team loses 2 games in that, the rest of the league games aren't taken seriously at all and are sometimes conceded even. A senior club footballer in Cork could conceivably, in a bad year, play only 4 serious games of football...how in the hell they expect footballers to learn, improve and develop in that sort of a system is beyond me.

As an example from the other end of the spectrum...Dublin have a pretty good All-county league which is not only well run, but very competitive also.

premierstone

david.1976 wrote: »

The auld memory ain't what it used to be - I'll never be like jimmy Magee! Interesting to see two west teams, Cappa and Cashel on the list. Where are they now? Both clubs are really struggling to make any impression on c'ship these days. Also Holycross and Boherlathan. Two more clubs with massive tradition and yet have gone way back in recent years. These are worrying times for Tipp if established clubs like these are struggling and are not making an impression at senior level. Perhaps like everything, all great things come to an end and empires have to be rebuilt. I can only suppose that these clubs failed to invest at underage for a number of years and are now paying the price. You only have to look at Drom or Loughmore to see how clubs who put in the ground work reap the benefits - two small rural clubs with barely 2000 people between them and the talent they have is very impressive and should continue for years to come. Which brings me back to my original point - certain clubs cling to their senior status dispite the fact that they are clearly not equiped for it eg Cashel, Cappa, Upperchurch, Moneygall, Ballingarry, Kickhams, etc etc (I'm not making friends here!!). Indeed alot of these clubs have failed to to make last 16 of county c'ship on a regular basis. Yet if the likes of these clubs were put into a intermedate c'chip it would make a fine competition. It would encourage clubs to really organise themselves to compete and win a county title. Imagine the good a county title would do for the likes of Moneygall or Ballingarry?? Winning adult titles along with investment in underage go hand in hand with building a better club. Population and resourses at hand should not really be an issue for these clubs because they are all fairly much the same in this regard. As said earlier Drom, loughmore and of course Killadangan have invested time and effort into underage and can play at a standard where they deserve senior status despite their limited resourse.

In fairness we have had 11 different winners in the last 25 years which I would say is as many as any county and more than most, but yes you have alot of very valid points.

Cappawhite kind of punched above their weight for along time and are now really finding their true level, themselves and Cashel have been the main victims of Clonoulty's domination in the west, Cashel infact were relegated in 2011 but successfully won an appel in the boardroom to many peoples disgust. They have zero business in senior hurling.

Agree completely re Loughmore, they are a shining example to every GAA club in the county tbh and they are equally competitive in Seniotr Football, extraordinary really, one club I thin you might be jumping the gun on a little is Hollycross, they have had a few poor years in comparison to the golden years but believe me they have some serious talent coming underage and time and money has been invested in that club big time, with i'm sure a helping hand from the bauld Mister Lowry.

Kildangan is actually my own club and yes we have made huge strides in both codes and off the field but we have a long way to go, the future is bright though and this year infact we had the most intercounty players we have ever had apart from 1972.

Tom Joad

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

This bit is key. I can't emphasise enough how good a competition the County league is in Kerry. It is taken seriously (unlike many other county's leagues..Cork being one I'm sure of) and gives every club at least 11 serious games per year. There is promotion and relegation of top/bottom 2 in each division. Its an excellent competition for development IMO.

Would agree with you 100% on this one and it gives players the chance to play competitive games at the proper level and gives county management - regional teams an opportunity to see the real talent.


Regional c/ships vary, but are all played when Co C/ships are over usually. The latest of them to finish is almost always my own..the North Kerry c/ship which would have a reputation for being not for the light, windy footballer shall we say!

Have had some exposure to the North Kerry championship and was amazed by the level of skill and ability on display at the games I have attended over the years and especially from an area of the county which wouldn't be seen as strong as the rest of the county - no offence meant. I would love to see Cavan replicate this structure and believe that it would bring the game on hugely.

At some stage in the past people in places like ballylongford, tarbert, ballyheigue etc had to sit down and say - lads we are wasting our time trying to compete with the likes of Kerins, Listowel Emmetts, Stacks etc and sat down and formed Shannon Rangers, Feale etc to be competitive but allowed the clubs to compete in their right in the regional championships - sadly at the minute that is unlikely to happen in Cavan due to politics, vested interests.


Having lived in Cork, a major football county, for a long while...the structures in comparison are appalling in my view. The league (Kelleher Shield) is a joke..the first couple of games are taken seriously, then c/ship commences and if a team loses 2 games in that, the rest of the league games aren't taken seriously at all and are sometimes conceded even. A senior club footballer in Cork could conceivably, in a bad year, play only 4 serious games of football...how in the hell they expect footballers to learn, improve and develop in that sort of a system is beyond me.

Exactly what happens in Cavan and is so frustrating it is unreal..

As an example from the other end of the spectrum...Dublin have a pretty good All-county league which is not only well run, but very competitive also.

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