Not racing enough. Harmful to progression?

Pisco Sour

An interesting discussion came up in the car with my coach on the way to the track meet at the weekend. It basically centered around one of the guys at the club who is reasonably talented (1:57 PB over 800m), who trains extremely hard, yet simply doesn't race enough, and pulls out of races at the last minute. I guess the thought process is that some people want to enter races only in tip top perfect physical shape. But my coach could not hide his frustration at this and is adamant the only way one will truly improve is by getting race fit, getting out there and learning from the mistakes that you make on the day of competition. He says there is no use training hard if you are not going to put into practice and that regular racing is the most effective training there is, and that so much can be learned from a race, lessons which can't be learned from training sessions.

I would personally agree with him, and being honest I've noticed from some training logs here that there is a lot of training but not nearly enough racing. But it would be interesting to hear the other side of the equation. Why do some people hand pick their races? What's the thought process behind it? Regardless of distance or whether it is road, track or cross-country, is it better for one to just race regularly and learn from mistakes, or to put the eggs in one basket and target only one race every few months and focus entirely on that one big day?

Peterx

One I've heard is that the person who doesn't race wants to maintain their voodoo sign/aura of invincibility over the competition and therefore will only race when he/she is in top shape and therefore will beat them. The argument goes that the others won't chase you when you go off the front if they have always been beaten by you - they assume you are better.

Also, some people just like the feeling of being fit. Some lads in my club did all the marathon training with us two years ago and had no intention of doing the marathon - and fair play to them.

Whilst I'm rambling - I have the opposite "problem", I love racing and am apathetic towards training which leads to me to quite frequently get my arse handed to me in races by lads. C'est le vie!

ecoli

I think in the example you have given I would agree that you need to get in a good few races in for a number of reasons

1) Track racing (and especially middle d races) tactics come into play so what ever about the physical benefit there is also an element of trial and error with what works

2) From a personal perspective I always find it takes 3-4 1500/3000m races to sharpen up the body for racing to legitimately attempt a PB

Racing on a more regular basis can also give you benefits that no training session will. The reason sessions work is because they are effectively broken down race efforts to the point where the body is able to handle and recover from regular bouts of high intensity efforts. In an ideal world if recovery wasnt an issue the most optimal training would be constant racing

However in terms of road racing and longer efforts there is a trade off. Longer efforts require longer recovery so racing to often you are inhibiting training. here there needs to be a balance you can race too much but also too little.

There are exceptions of course and Mark Christie is one who comes to mind who can seemingly bust out a hell of a race every once in a while but for me he is more the exceeption that proves the rule

Woddle

I was going well towards the start of the year but got quite afraid at the thoughts of racing.
I think for two reasons
1. was that training had been going well and I didn't want to risk running a bad race and putting a dent in my confidence.
2.The other was that I didn't like the thoughts of getting out of my comfort zone.

I've been making plans with my coach and one thing I told him is that I want to race more. I suppose the key is getting the balance right and not risking your quality training by over racing.

wrstan

Peterx wrote: »

One I've heard is that the person who doesn't race wants to maintain their voodoo sign/aura of invincibility over the competition

I love it, I'm never going to race again and glory in my invincibilty :D

Krusty_Clown

I ran a track race in one of the graded meets in Dublin and ran in the wrong grade, as it was the only grade available that day. Needless to say, I came last. By a good stretch. It was a good learning experience. Nobody laughed. Nobody pointed. Nobody cared (except me). Race for the benefit you get from the experience, not just for the confidence it gives you. Sometimes you need a good kicking!

I'm the opposite though. I've run 21 races so far this year and plan on hitting up a few more before the end of the year. I've got issues. I'm a race whore.

Woddle

Right again Krusty.
I've only raced 3 times this year and my last one was in May and I nearly didn't do it. I was psyching myself out so much beforehand with the thoughts of not getting the result I wanted

RayCun

I think races are good for resetting your comfort zone. When you train all the time at <85% you have to remind yourself what real effort is like. It'll make the training feel easier, but also mean you don't take it too easy. And a good hard 5k/10k is going to have much the same training benefit as a session anyway.
But I'm feeling a little burnt out on racing right now, I'm going to take another few training weeks before I turn up ready to put in that effort...

Racman

Interesting that the OP's friend is an 800m runner. It is a distance where you have only a couple of minutes to get to the front and keep out of trouble after the break from lanes. My worst race ever was an 800m - probably because I ran 830m or more, out in lanes 2 and 3. I hadn't run an 800m for far too long. Racing will improve your "race craft" as well as pace judgement.

You don't have to peak for all your races though - as long as you have an objective each time, it will be worthwhile doing each one.

dna_leri

Pisco Sour wrote: »

An interesting discussion came up in the car with my coach on the way to the track meet at the weekend. It basically centered around one of the guys at the club who is reasonably talented (1:57 PB over 800m), who trains extremely hard, yet simply doesn't race enough, and pulls out of races at the last minute. I guess the thought process is that some people want to enter races only in tip top perfect physical shape. But my coach could not hide his frustration at this and is adamant the only way one will truly improve is by getting race fit, getting out there and learning from the mistakes that you make on the day of competition. He says there is no use training hard if you are not going to put into practice and that regular racing is the most effective training there is, and that so much can be learned from a race, lessons which can't be learned from training sessions.

I would personally agree with him, and being honest I've noticed from some training logs here that there is a lot of training but not nearly enough racing. But it would be interesting to hear the other side of the equation. Why do some people hand pick their races? What's the thought process behind it? Regardless of distance or whether it is road, track or cross-country, is it better for one to just race regularly and learn from mistakes, or to put the eggs in one basket and target only one race every few months and focus entirely on that one big day?

It depends on what is your definition of "not racing enough". It's not the same for everyone. Really it should all be about how best to peak for target races.

I agree that you need a few races to get race fit, work out tactics and get used to the pain of race pace. However I think too many people race too often and then fail to reach their potential. Racing every week or even every second week can be great fun but does not help you reach your peak.

How many races it takes to reach that peak will depend on the event and the person, their fitness level and injury history. For me, I pick and choose my races and need to manage my recovery after each one. This year I did 11 races with 3 that I rated as higher priority than the rest. My main priority was an 800m in August, which was my 5th at that distance this year.

I think it's also important whether you train through the race or taper. Ideally you train through most build-up races, tapering just for target events so that you feel that extra bit fresher than for other races.

woodchopper

There is a time for training and their is a time for racing.

Runner A: 1500 meter specialist who can also run both 800 and 3k well.

Two Season Cycles i.e Indoor and Outdoor season.

Indoor Season: January - Mid March or if not International end of February.

5-6 races covering a 3k, 800 and a few 1500s including a championship race.

Base Period lasts from September to early January. Do you race during this period?

Yes but very sparringly. Examples would be a few 5k road races to gauge aerobic fitness and to break up training. But the aim is to peak for February-March.

March is a regeneration period 3 weeks easy. One week off, one week jogging 30-40 minutes 4-6 days. Third week builds on previous week and prepares for the next training cycle

Outdoor Season: End of March- Mid May Fundamental Period

Do you race during this period?

Ans: Very seldom maybe one or two races i.e Road Relay, club race


June- Mid August Racing Period

Do you race and how often?

Yes and as often as it takes too get race fit. However if the goal race is a championship in early August the athletes does not flog themself racing every weekend in June. This is where the role of a good coach comes in. They can adjust as they see fit as nothing in a racing cycle should be set in stone.

Mid-Late August- Early- Mid September Regeneration period. Two weeks no running, two weeks jogging increasing from one week to the next leaving the athlete ready to enter the Indoor Fundamental Period.

I will post a schedule for a two a year marathon athlete at a later date.

TRR

Brilliant post woodchopper. Use to run 800s and would have followed something similar. Would be very interested to see your marathon race schedule.

Pisco Sour

woodchopper wrote: »

There is a time for training and their is a time for racing.

Runner A: 1500 meter specialist who can also run both 800 and 3k well.

Two Season Cycles i.e Indoor and Outdoor season.

Indoor Season: January - Mid March or if not International end of February.

5-6 races covering a 3k, 800 and a few 1500s including a championship race.

Base Period lasts from September to early January. Do you race during this period?

Yes but very sparringly. Examples would be a few 5k road races to gauge aerobic fitness and to break up training. But the aim is to peak for February-March.

March is a regeneration period 3 weeks easy. One week off, one week jogging 30-40 minutes 4-6 days. Third week builds on previous week and prepares for the next training cycle

Outdoor Season: End of March- Mid May Fundamental Period

Do you race during this period?

Ans: Very seldom maybe one or two races i.e Road Relay, club race


June- Mid August Racing Period

Do you race and how often?

Yes and as often as it takes too get race fit. However if the goal race is a championship in early August the athletes does not flog themself racing every weekend in June. This is where the role of a good coach comes in. They can adjust as they see fit as nothing in a racing cycle should be set in stone.

Mid-Late August- Early- Mid September Regeneration period. Two weeks no running, two weeks jogging increasing from one week to the next leaving the athlete ready to enter the Indoor Fundamental Period.

I will post a schedule for a two a year marathon athlete at a later date.

Excellent post.

HelenAnne

Just out of interest, if you're not training for anything specific, just running for fun and hoping to make it a lifelong habit (that's my running cv, basically) how often do you A/R boardsies race? I was trying to count up in my head, and I know I've done at least 30 this year (a lot of them would be club series races), and I didn't think that was a lot. I'm certainly not out there racing twice in one day or anything!

I like to race for the fun, and to try to improve my times, and I also think the more races I do, the better I get at knowing how to pace myself over various distances, and the better I get at knowing how hard I can run & for how long (generally the races would be distances from 2 miles to 10k, though I've done a few miles, 3 HMs, a 10 mile & a 13k mountain race this year as well).

Another reason I race a lot is that I get very, very nervous beforehand, and I'm afraid if I skipped one in a series due to nerves / making up reasons why I couldn't run, then I'd start doing that all the time. A great runner told me that the best practice for racing is racing, so I've taken him at his word!

Timmaay

No problem with doing lots of races either Helen, what you do there is set out your bigger target races beforehand, and try to work the other races around that. Don't treat every single race the same (ie try to do them all at 100%), treat some races as just a steady or tempo run! It can be alittle hard during the race to hold yourself back, but you'll need to be disciplined and tell yourself you want to save yourself for whatever big race that is coming up. You'll get the usual afterwards also, people saying why were you so far back today, simply be honest with them, you are saving yourself for a more important race.


Woodchopper, great post about the 1500 runner, I'd be in a similar boat, except like a good few of the irish middle distance club runners, I wouldn't bother with indoors as there are just too few races. Instead I'd double up and run the XC season also and us it to help me build up a good fitness base, which would involve the important 70-90min Sunday run also! I'd tend to have a much more drawn out peak for the XC season, however I'd certainly try to avoid less racing during XC than track, maybe once every 2wks at XC whereas track I can get away with up to 2 every week (for maybe a 3week period)

SnappyDresser

used to race rarely.
They picked a particular race as 'goal'.
The then trained like demons specifically for their race event.
They used at most 1 or 2 focused races at shorter than goal and generally ran very fast times.
Turned up on race day and destoryed their opponents:D

ecoli

i008787 wrote: »

used to race rarely.
They picked a particular race as 'goal'.
The then trained like demons specifically for their race event.
They used at most 1 or 2 focused races at shorter than goal and generally ran very fast times.
Turned up on race day and destoryed their opponents:D

Elliot is not a great example here as he ran 11 races in 19 days after the Rome Olympics not to mention a US tour in the summer building up to the Olympics

Krusty_Clown

i008787 wrote: »

used to race rarely.
They picked a particular race as 'goal'.

Sure didn't Lasse Virén win both the 5,000 and 10,000 twice (within a few days of each other)? Second time around (Montreal) he also raced in the marathon, but 'only' managed fifth. Race wh0re.

wrstan

This article posted earlier by M cebee has some great words of wisdom on this topic by the incredible Ron Hill:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/london-marathon/5215401/Marathon-runner-Ron-Hill-a-running-machine-at-the-age-of-70.html

He says he's done 6 races in the last forntight, but I thought this quote was particularly apt for this topic:

"There is no real secret to successful training and being competitive in the marathon. Let me give you my recipe: steady distance work and lots of it, short spells of speed work within that distance work, and regular racing. Don't hide away, race regularly."

A definite legend!

wgtomblin

wrstan wrote: »

He says he's done 6 races in the last forntight, but I thought this quote was particularly apt for this topic:

"There is no real secret to successful training and being competitive in the marathon. Let me give you my recipe: steady distance work and lots of it, short spells of speed work within that distance work, and regular racing. Don't hide away, race regularly."

A definite legend!

A legend alright, but if he had raced less, might he have won more championship medals? I suppose it has been well-documented that he was forced to run in National Trials, when he would have been better served to be allowed to peak in order to perform at his best in Olympics or Euro's. But other than that, he did race a hell of a lot.

Viren raced sparingly outside the Olympics, and then peaked to be able to run Olympic 5,000, 10,000 including heats and even marathon, and bagged 4 gold medals in the process. So perhaps the motto should be "Hide away, race seldomly"!

YFlyer

and drink reindeer milk