Is it legal to create a currency in Ireland?

Blackadder87

Just read about the liberty dollar case from the US where this guy attempted to create his own currency but ended up getting sentenced to 15 years in prison. Anyone know what the legal position in Ireland would be if the same thing was attempted here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar

Procrastastudy

Liberty Dollar had its own issues (looking like regular dollars IIRC) there are numerous virtual and alternative currencies alive and well in Ireland; Bit-coin being just one.

Not a huge amount of point creating one in a country and market this small. Alternate currencies really need to be global. There is of course that alternate currency (and tax) lots of patriotic Irish people like to use called sterling; you'll find it readily accepted in Newry.

As a plug - if you're a law student I'll be presenting a semi-relevant paper at sometime next year PM me if you want to know where.

krd

desbrook wrote: »

It was attempted here just over 10 years ago and caused chaos eventually. A heavy fine has been imposed alright and we'll be paying it for many many years. You must have heard of the Euro?

Oh right...Blame Europe.......And fat bog trotting Paddies, who were well in with the bank manager had nothing to do with it. "I come from a good family, I don't wipe me bottom, bottom wiping is for homosexuals who live in Dublin, give me a big wad of cash to invest in a ghost estate, we'll all be rich, because I'm a great big thick fat paddy"


Get back on your donkey, Des. ....And get out of town.

krd

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Liberty Dollar had its own issues (looking like regular dollars IIRC) there are numerous virtual and alternative currencies alive and well in Ireland; Bit-coin being just one.

There are numerous alternative currencies all around the world.....

Not a huge amount of point creating one in a country and market this small. Alternate currencies really need to be global.

*cough*....There are unconventional businesses in Ireland, who could do well with a small local currency, that could facilitate their operations....And make sure their cash wasn't dirty and smelly, like it had been in a farmers pocket, if you know what I mean.

Dirty culchie people I grew up with - Holy god gave them big subsidised farms - use to say "De smell of shish, ish de smell off money". And certainly, any money those dirty baboons ever touched did smell of shish.

NoQuarter

Krd - you make everything okay.

Jimminy Mc Fukhead

Procrastastudy wrote: »

called sterling; you'll find it readily accepted in Newry.

Sterling is readily acceptable in Newry because it's legal tender.

Procrastastudy

Jimminy Mc Fukhead wrote: »

Sterling is readily acceptable in Newry because it's legal tender.

Thanks for that.

Reloc8

Blackadder87 wrote: »

Anyone know what the legal position in Ireland would be if the same thing was attempted here?

It would be an offence.

(S. 56 Central Bank Act 1942 which I believe has been amended - postal and telecommunications services act 1983 and central bank act 1989 ? - but continues in force in respect of euros).

If it's not that its something else, he said helpfully.

ResearchWill

Reloc8 wrote: »

It would be an offence.

(S. 56 Central Bank Act 1942 which I believe has been amended - postal and telecommunications services act 1983 and central bank act 1989 ? - but continues in force in respect of euros).

If it's not that its something else, he said helpfully.

As I am bored I will post the relevant sections,

Central Bank Act 1942

56.—(1) No person shall make, provide, issue, re-issue, or give or receive in payment any document (not being a document excluded by this section from the operation of this section) in writing (whether written on paper or on any other substance or material) which complies with both of the following conditions, that is to say:—

(a) the document purports or is expressed to be or is in fact exchangeable for a specified sum of lawful money on presentation by the holder for the time being thereof to a particular person or any two or more particular persons, whether such person or persons is or are or is not or are not specified in the document and whether such presentation is or is not subject to restrictions as to time and place and whether such restrictions (if any) are or are not stated in the document, and

(b) the document is intended or purports or appears to be intended to circulate as money or to be used as a substitute for lawful money, whether generally or for a particular purpose or within a particular area.

(2) Every person who makes, provides, issues, re-issues, or gives or receives in payment any document in contravention of the foregoing sub-section of this section shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds,

(3) Where a document is or purports or is expressed to be made, provided, issued, re-issued, or given or received in payment by or on behalf of a club, association, committee, council, or other body which is not incorporated, every member of that body shall be guilty of an offence under this section and be punishable accordingly.

(4) In any prosecution of a person for an offence under this section, the burden of proof that the document in relation to which the offence is alleged to have been committed was not intended and does not purport or appear to be intended to circulate as money or to be used as a substitute for lawful money (whether generally or for a particular purpose or within a particular area) shall lie on the person so prosecuted, and, unless and until the contrary is proved, it shall be presumed that the said document was intended (in contravention of this section) to circulate as money and be used as a substitute for lawful money.

(5) Every of the following documents is excluded from the operation of this section, that is to say:—

(a) bank notes;

(b) postal orders, post office money orders, and other documents issued by the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs;

(c) bank drafts, deposit receipts, and other documents issued by any bank;

(d) bills of exchange not payable on presentation;

(e) promissory notes for not less than five pounds;

(f) cheques drawn on a banker, including cheques drawn by a banker on himself;

(g) tallies which—

(i) are (whether before or after the passing of this Act) issued or provided by a club or association the members of which consist wholly or mainly of persons who are for the time being unemployed, and

(ii) circulate only amongst the members of such club or association, and

(iii) are so issued or provided and are used solely for the purpose of enabling goods produced or services rendered by members of such club or association to be exchanged between members of such club or association.

Amended in 1983 by Postal and Telecommunications Services Act 1983

In section 56 (5), for the reference to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs there shall be substituted a reference to An Post.

Central Bank Act 1989

8.—The Principal Act is hereby amended—

(b) in section 56, by the substitution of the following subsection for subsection (2):

“(2) Every person who makes, provides, issues, re-issues, or gives or receives in payment any document in contravention of subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable—

(a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding £10,000 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years, or to both.”;

The fines have now of course been amended by the Fines Act 2010.

It would I think be a class C fine for summary purposes,

6.— (1) Where an enactment enacted on or after the commencement date provides that a person who commits an offence under that or any other enactment shall be liable, upon summary conviction, to a class C fine, the reference to class C fine shall be construed as a reference to class C fine within the meaning of this Part.

(2) Subject to subsection (3), where an enactment enacted during a period specified in column (2) of the Table opposite a particular reference number specified in column (1) of the Table provides that a person who commits an offence under the enactment shall be liable, upon summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding an amount that falls within the range of amounts specified in column (3) of the Table opposite the same reference number, a person who commits that offence after the commencement date shall, upon summary conviction, not be liable to that fine, but shall instead be liable to a class C fine.

(3) Where an enactment enacted before the commencement date provides that a person who commits an offence under the enactment shall be liable, upon summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding an amount that—

(a) was provided for by virtue of a subsequent enactment enacted during a period specified in column (2) of the Table opposite a particular reference number specified in column (1) of the Table, and

(b) falls within the range of amounts specified in column (3) of the Table opposite the same reference number,

a person who commits that offence after the commencement date shall, upon summary conviction, not be liable to that fine but shall instead be liable to a class C fine.

TABLE

Reference Number

(1)

Period

(2)

Range of amounts

(3)

1.

1 January 1997 to day immediately before commencement date

Not greater than €2,500 but greater than €1,000

2.

1 January 1990 to 31 December 1996

Not greater than €1,731 but greater than €692

3.

1 January 1980 to 31 December 1989

Not greater than €1,455 but greater than €582

4.

1 January 1975 to 31 December 1979

Not greater than €606 but greater than €242

5.

1 January 1965 to 31 December 1974

Not greater than €307 but greater than €123

6.

1 January 1945 to 31 December 1964

Not greater than €147 but greater than €59

7.

1 January 1915 to 31 December 1944

Not greater than €79 but greater than €32

8.

Period ending on 31 December 1914

Not greater than €50 but greater than €25

Class C fine is now

class C fine” means a fine not exceeding €2,500;

I really need a life!