Minimum Supply Voltage to House

Kippure

Whats the Minimium Supply voltage the ESB have to supply to your home. By law or under EU directive.

A friend is a sparks and he measures with his meter 189 volts in the evening time.

The Tv , gas central heating, washing machines turn off and the lights fade down, Brown out.

He has had a recorder put on by the ESB at meter box.


They say theres nothing wrong.

What can he do.

brightspark

http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/en/about-us/faqs.jsp

What is the electricity voltage in Ireland?
For electricity supplied at Low Voltage by ESB Networks, the nominal standard is 230/400 Volts, 50Hz.. ESB Networks undertakes to deliver single phase electricity within a voltage range of 207 Volts to 253 Volts. This is in accordance with European Standard EN50160.

Amazing what google can find.(keywords ESB and VOLTAGE, third result)

Kippure

brightspark wrote: »

http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/en/about-us/faqs.jsp




Amazing what google can find.(keywords ESB and VOLTAGE, third result)

Super job.:)

brightspark

As your friend is a sparks, I have taken it for granted that he has checked for loose connections between where he measured and the where the esb checked!

You didn't say what the esb recorded at the meter box, but if there was a loose connection in his distribution board it could explain a difference.

M cebee

brightspark wrote: »

As your friend is a sparks, I have taken it for granted that he has checked for loose connections between where he measured and the where the esb checked!

You didn't say what the esb recorded at the meter box, but if there was a loose connection in his distribution board it could explain a difference.

indeed

if the problem is in the installation-at DB or socket circuits the recorder won't show it up and it's not a networks issue

if he's actually measured 189v there's a problem anyhow


spark should have confirmed if the prob is installation or networks before recorder is fitted-takes 5 minutes to confirm

Bruthal

Bad connections dont usually remain stable to give a steady lower voltage on one side and normal on the other. By the time enough load is applied to cause the bad connection to show up, the connection would usually be intermittent and show itself up with flickering lights, or arcing sound etc, or fail altogether, or will show full voltage with lower loads.

Still though, electrical common sense would have tests done at least at the cable supplying the DB.

M cebee

op said lights and sockets low voltage so i should have ruled out final cct problem
it should be simple to confirm an issue at DB or isol. switch or main ocpd in cabinet
before recorder is fitted if he can measure 189volt

2011

Kippure wrote: »

He has had a recorder put on by the ESB at meter box.


They say theres nothing wrong.

Then I would believe them.

A friend is a sparks and he measures with his meter 189 volts in the evening time.

In that case:
(a) The test meter is faulty or out of calibration.
(b) There is a problem downstream of the meter.

What can he do.

Get a good electrician (with a good meter:D) to check the installation properly.

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

op said lights and sockets low voltage so i should have ruled out final cct problem
it should be simple to confirm an issue at DB or isol. switch or main ocpd in cabinet
before recorder is fitted if he can measure 189volt

From the overall description in the OP, and if a recorder says the voltage is ok, its probably a fault in the DB. But like a lot stuff here, its guess work from here, but extremely simple to test out if at the installation.

brightspark

2011 wrote: »

Then I would believe them.


In that case:
(a) The test meter is faulty or out of calibration.
(b) There is a problem downstream of the meter.



Get a good electrician (with a good meter:D) to check the installation properly.

I disregarded meter accuracy based on the faults described. If the op had said he got a low voltage reading, but had no faults it might have been just the meter.

2011

brightspark wrote: »

I disregarded meter accuracy based on the faults described. If the op had said he got a low voltage reading, but had no faults it might have been just the meter.

Well then it is:
(b) There is a problem downstream of the meter.

.. and as Robbie says:

From the overall description in the OP, and if a recorder says the voltage is ok, its probably a fault in the DB.

brightspark

2011 wrote: »

Well then it is:
(b) There is a problem downstream of the meter.

.. and as Robbie says:

Hopefully the op comes back to let us know.

Kippure

brightspark wrote: »

As your friend is a sparks, I have taken it for granted that he has checked for loose connections between where he measured and the where the esb checked!

You didn't say what the esb recorded at the meter box, but if there was a loose connection in his distribution board it could explain a difference.

They just told him it was ok. It was left in for 3 days. It was within the paramiters. He was pissed off. Both myself and my friend are electricians. We are baffled. We both at the time done all we could. We done a tightness check on the board, every outlet switch, skt, light was checked.

We done a full RECI inspection. All meters are fully calibrated and up to date. We Meggered, conitunity test, resistance, fault loop, rcd trip etc test.

Since this problem only happens in the evening time, we have come to the conclusion that the esb simply cant supply the area with the proper voltage. Its to much electrical applineces been turned on at the same time.

The esb did come out and do there tightness check on the feed coming in. And its source.

Thanks eveyone for the advice.

Check your neighbors?

M cebee

Kippure wrote: »

They just told him it was ok. It was left in for 3 days. It was within the paramiters. He was pissed off. Both myself and my friend are electricians. We are baffled. We both at the time done all we could. We done a tightness check on the board, every outlet switch, skt, light was checked.

We done a full RECI inspection. All meters are fully calibrated and up to date. We Meggered, conitunity test, resistance, fault loop, rcd trip etc test.

Since this problem only happens in the evening time, we have come to the conclusion that the esb simply cant supply the area with the proper voltage. Its to much electrical applineces been turned on at the same time.

The esb did come out and do there tightness check on the feed coming in. And its source.

Thanks eveyone for the advice.

if there's low voltage in the evenings -surely you can confirm it by checking voltage as close as possible to meter( without breaking seals)

2011

Kippure wrote: »

They just told him it was ok. It was left in for 3 days. It was within the paramiters. He was pissed off. Both myself and my friend are electricians. We are baffled. We both at the time done all we could. We done a tightness check on the board, every outlet switch, skt, light was checked

Exactly where did the ESB connect their test equipment ?
Exactly where was the 189V measured?

When the voltmeter reads 189V move it back along the circuit taking voltage measurements at different points until you find a large change in the voltage readings. The problem exists between these points. There is a high chance that the problem is on the supply cable to the DB from the ESB meter. This should be done while the circuit is loaded. A 3kW kettle would provide a good load (as Robbie would tell you).

M cebee

2011 wrote: »

Exactly where did the ESB connect their test equipment ?
Exactly where was the 189V measured?

When the voltmeter reads 189V move it back along the circuit taking voltage measurements at different points until you find a large change in the voltage readings. The problem exists between these points. There is a high chance that the problem is on the supply cable to the DB from the ESB meter. This should be done while the circuit is loaded. A 3kW kettle would provide a good load (as Robbie would tell you).

tails(undamaged) wouldn't account for 189 volt

2011

M cebee wrote: »

intact tails wouldn't account for 189 volt

Correct. Perhaps they are not intact, have a high resistance connection, are undersized or for some reason are presenting a high resistance to the installation. The undervoltage problem is presenting itself on multiple circuits, they don't have much else in common.

2011

M cebee wrote: »

tails(undamaged) wouldn't account for 189 volt

This is addressed in my last post.

M cebee

i assumed you were referring to the tails themselves
anyway
i don't see how this problem can be so difficult to resolve

possible there's an issue at cutout /meter alright if esbn are just checking on incoming service to cabinet

it's easier for contractors to check voltage on newer installs at cabinet

Black Smoke

Kippure wrote: »

They just told him it was ok. It was left in for 3 days. It was within the paramiters. He was pissed off. Both myself and my friend are electricians. We are baffled. We both at the time done all we could. We done a tightness check on the board, every outlet switch, skt, light was checked.

We done a full RECI inspection. All meters are fully calibrated and up to date. We Meggered, conitunity test, resistance, fault loop, rcd trip etc test.

Since this problem only happens in the evening time, we have come to the conclusion that the esb simply cant supply the area with the proper voltage. Its to much electrical applineces been turned on at the same time.

The esb did come out and do there tightness check on the feed coming in. And its source.

Thanks eveyone for the advice.

You say, it's an evening time problem.
From that, I assume you got your 189v reading in the evening!
Did you do a morning time, afternoon time reading?
Better still did you do a dead of night reading, when all the neighbours are in bed, and local demand is very low?
Let's see a comparisson between the readings at different times!

2011

Black Smoke wrote: »

You say, it's an evening time problem.
From that, I assume you got your 189v reading in the evening!

I would assume that this problem shows itself when a load is switched on within the house in the evening. If the problem was outside of this house the ESB would have found it after 3 days of monitoring.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Correct. Perhaps they are not intact, have a high resistance connection, are undersized or for some reason are presenting a high resistance to the installation. The undervoltage problem is presenting itself on multiple circuits, they don't have much else in common.

A bad connection giving 189 volts where there is 230v at the meter would not remain stable for long.

If its taking a good load to bring a bad connection down to 189 volts, then it will quickly burn out.

If it is only taking a small load to drop a bad connection to 189 volts, then a decent load would cause the connection to open circuit, or noticeably arc.

Either way, they don`t stay stable for long. Its not like a fixed resistor in a circuit like a voltage drop on a long cable run would be.

Maybe this 189v was measured L to E, and the earth is very poor or non existant.

2011

robbie7730 wrote: »

A bad connection giving 189 volts where there is 230v at the meter would not remain stable for long.

Yes, that is what i would think.

But these comments from the OP seem to suggest that they have measured this several times over a number of days:

A friend is a sparks and he measures with his meter 189 volts in the evening time.

and

Since this problem only happens in the evening time, we have come to the conclusion that the esb simply cant supply the area with the proper voltage.

Maybe this 189v was measured L to E, and the earth is very poor or non existant.

I would not think so because the OP says:

The Tv , gas central heating, washing machines turn off and the lights fade down, Brown out.

I am sure the OP has checked that the earth was not used as a neutral as he is a sparks.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

I would not think so because the OP says:

I know, thats why i have already said it was probably a connection problem at the db if the voltage recorder was reading 210 to 230v correctly the whole time. and 189 volts was correctly read L to N. But we know little from here.

I am sure the OP has checked that the earth was not used as a neutral as he is a sparks.

I was more suggesting the earth may have been used for the voltage test that gave 189 volts.

Its either low voltage being supplied, or a problem in the installation. It would seem easy to test voltage at the tails into the DB, and at a far away point in the house, during the affected times.

M cebee

robbie7730 wrote: »

I know, thats why i have already said it was probably a connection problem at the db if the voltage recorder was reading 210 to 230v correctly the whole time. and 189 volts was correctly read L to N. But we know little from here.


I was more suggesting the earth may have been used for the voltage test that gave 189 volts.

Its either low voltage being supplied, or a problem in the installation. It would seem easy to test voltage at the tails into the DB, and at a far away point in the house, during the affected times.

if you're reliably measuring 189v at a point
you would as you say check voltage incoming to main isolating switch
that's 90% of the problem solved right there

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

if you're reliably measuring 189v at a point
you would as you say check voltage incoming to main isolating switch
that's 90% of the problem solved right there

Yes you would think so alright.

M cebee

and as 2011 pointed out problems occur between service entering cabinet and main switch
hopefully esbn are are looking after that side of it
not quite sure where they place the recorder
maybe they just do a physical check on meter ,cut-out connections

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

and as 2011 pointed out problems occur between service entering cabinet and main switch
hopefully esbn are are looking after that side of it
not quite sure where they place the recorder
maybe they just do a physical check on meter ,cut-out connections

I think they just plug in. I seen them years ago but like most stuff at my age, I forget now:)

If it read correct voltage the whole time, it wont matter where it was anyway, the problem is within the premises at least.

jaggiebunnet

on the opposite end of the scale, i got a boiler service done this morning and he noticed that we are getting 330v when he checked the supply to the boiler, he also checked a kitchen plug point and got the same reading. I have an electrician coming out this afternoon but was just wondering if anyone might have an idea as to what would cause this - is it the supply from ESB?

M cebee

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

on the opposite end of the scale, i got a boiler service done this morning and he noticed that we are getting 330v when he checked the supply to the boiler, he also checked a kitchen plug point and got the same reading. I have an electrician coming out this afternoon but was just wondering if anyone might have an idea as to what would cause this - is it the supply from ESB?

sounds unlikely
see what the electrician says
have you had any electrical issues

jaggiebunnet

M cebee wrote: »

sounds unlikely
see what the electrician says
have you had any electrical issues

funnily enough my microwave pinged for the last time yesterday for no reason. apart from that no issues.

M cebee

ya it's unlikely
i'd say he's mistaken

jaggiebunnet

M cebee wrote: »

ya it's unlikely
i'd say he's mistaken

Hopefully, though i was there when he put the voltage meter into check and it read 327.

M cebee

did you switch off power or unplug appliances as a precaution

jaggiebunnet

M cebee wrote: »

did you switch off power or unplug appliances as a precaution

em...no am working at home so i need the power

jaggiebunnet

update: electrician been, checked and all ok - reckons faulty equipment from earlier.

M cebee

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

update: electrician been, checked and all ok - reckons faulty equipment from earlier.

ya
what did your boiler guy say out of interest
'im reading 330v here but its ok to use the boiler and appliances in the meantime? '

Bruthal

If that had been a true reading, it would be the main neutral gone that was supplying 2 or more houses on different phases.

M cebee

i did it by accident on a 3phase db
fried a good few things
handy enough on the equipment with external power supplies-just a swapout

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

i did it by accident on a 3phase db
fried a good few things
handy enough on the equipment with external power supplies-just a swapout

Very easy happen.

jaggiebunnet

M cebee wrote: »

ya
what did your boiler guy say out of interest
'im reading 330v here but its ok to use the boiler and appliances in the meantime? '

told me it was dangerous and that I should get an electrician out as soon as.