Major blow for Waterford Airport, Aer Lingus to stop flights to UK from Jan 2013

RobitTV

Aer Arann, operating as Aer Lingus Regional, is to suspend its services at Waterford Airport with effect from 6 January, 2013.

The routes affected will be Aer Lingus Regional services from Waterford Airport to London Southend, London Luton and Manchester.

The airline will continue to operate as normal from Waterford up to 6 January, 2013.

Passengers with bookings for flights after 6 January, 2013 will be contacted directly by the airline in the coming days. All passengers will be re-booked on alternative Aer Lingus Regional flights from other airports or given a full refund.

All Aer Arann employees at Waterford Airport will be redeployed in the company.

The airline will continue to offer services to London Southend from Dublin Airport and to Manchester from Cork Airport and Shannon Airport.

http://www.aerarann.com/rssReader/NewsReader_2012.aspx#05112012110824


Shocking! that's waterford finished :eek:

Judgement Day

It's not the first time that Waterford Airport has had no services and in reality the population is not there to support it.

Quackster

Flybe will still operate a daily flight to Birmingham which they launched after Aer Arann dropped the route. Fair chance of them picking up one or more of these routes too.

purplepanda

No public transport to Waterford Airport doesn't help. Even though there are limited bus services to nearby locations which could be re-routed to call at the airport?

Why didn't the airport & airlines organise such a service themselves? :pac:

Victor

In fairness, building an airport on a peninsula was the wrong place to put it.

CIE

Victor wrote: »

In fairness, building an airport on a peninsula was the wrong place to put it

Where was the right place?

Judgement Day

CIE wrote: »

Where was the right place?

Dublin, Cork or Shannon - enough airports for a country with no population.

Neworder79

CIE wrote: »

Where was the right place?

Choosing a location where 60% of your catchment wasn't ocean would have helped.

Anywhere N/NW of the city would have put it bang on the axis of all the key routes through the SE region, bringing it well below 1 hour of all the major towns in Tipperary, Kilkenny, Carlow and Wexford (N25, N26, N/M9), and on the route of rail and bus services, with no loss of access to Waterford.

That would have made it a viable alternative to Dublin/Cork, and hugely increased the attractiveness to the wider catchment of Munster, who instead had no public transport option, drive on a slow road to Waterford, then a congested city centre with 1 river crossing and bridge lifts, followed by a potholed borheen to the far side of Tramore.

As usual there was no strategic planning, no vision, just looking for the cheapest option and more concern about county flag waving than viable infrastructure.

Setting out services based on county boundaries is ludicrous when our cities and county towns are in the low double figures. We can have viable, well serviced transport hubs if we plan logically and link transport nodes where they can reach the widest population and allow easy integration with other services.

bk

The unfortunate reality is that the new motorway network is making other sorts of infrastructure less relevant.

With Dublin Airport now just two hours up the road from Waterford, it doesn't make much sense to have so many airports.

They are having a similar impact on rail and sea ports.

Jamie2k9

The routes were not the problem it was RE selling two aircraft to pay for there new ones to be based at Dublin and Cork. Moving LTN to SEN didn't help the suituation as people don't want to fly to SEN. This is down to poor managment in RE and shareholders.

bk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The routes were not the problem it was RE selling two aircraft to pay for there new ones to be based at Dublin and Cork. Moving LTN to SEN didn't help the suituation as people don't want to fly to SEN. This is down to poor managment in RE and shareholders.

Hmm, selling planes to buy new bigger aircraft to operate out of larger airports with larger catchments sounds like good management decisions to me.

Jamie2k9

Hmm, selling planes to buy new bigger aircraft to operate out of larger airports with larger catchments sounds like good management decisions to me.

Only reason they are buying new plans is because the current ones can't be kept in the fleet tech faults daily and most are quiet old. Aer Lingus won't put up with it much longer as every tech aircraft has potential to cost EI lots to accommodate passengers in hotels and move to another US flight. FYI the new aircraft will not carry any more passengers than the current ones.

Over the last two years all there WAT passengers have saw are delays, delays and canceled flights a lot because of tech aircraft and staffing problems. Before this there were not issues so EI regional has caused RE to close WAT service, only a certain amount of crap passengers will put up with.

Aer Aranns biggest mistake was moving there most profitable WAT-LTN service to SEN which pushed passengers to ORK and DUB and a revenue drop of around 40% per passenger.

Victor

CIE wrote: »

Where was the right place?

As Neworder79 says, somewhere accessible to the rest of the region.

There is room for more than three airports, but placement of the existing airports is particularly bad.

Donegal - peripheral location on a peninsula, who's natural catchment consists of Tory Island and Aran island: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,578177,921812,4,1

Sligo - peripheral location on a peninsula, who's natural catchment consists of parts of county Sligo. Road improvements have extended this into Leitrim and South Donegal, but this is a double-edged sword and it has lost out to Knock and Dublin: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,561045,836981,4,1 Currently no scheduled services.

Knock - Ireland's highest airport, it's location on the N17 meant it cannibalised the market, taking from Sligo and Galway, without actually giving much to Mayo. Three flights a day from one airport is much more attractive than one flight a day from three airports. Galway 88km, Sligo: 55km, west Mayo 125km. Getting a railway to a hill top site is questionable. Those pilgrims never materialised: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,546268,796348,4,1

Galway - in theory a good location, but competing with Knock and Shannon, both of which have longer runways, which can take larger aircraft. The site is constricted, meaning a longer runway hasn't been possible. http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,537643,728138,4,1 Monopolised by Aer Arann, the website now says "Currently there are no scheduled flights into Galway Airport at the moment".

Shannon - good access for fuel, not so great for passengers, again, built on a peninsula, although not as bad as some of the other examples. Ever dependent on subsidies - the free trade zone, the town, the stopover ... http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,537954,661476,4,1

Kerry - not a bad location, but doesn't have the population or commercial base to be really successful. location means that a cross runway is impractical to build. http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,495594,604511,4,1

Cork - perhaps a little bit too close to the city, it's hilltop location means it suffers more than it's share of fog and ice and restricts, if not eliminates runway extension. http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,566178,565855,4,1

Waterford - as above: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,662440,604399,4,1

dowlingm

Neworder79 wrote: »

Anywhere N/NW of the city would have put it bang on the axis of all the key routes through the SE region

Not many places that could have been done because of terrain - look at how the old N9 used to meander and a road can tolerate more slope than any runway. You want flat land in a generally W or SW direction depending on local wind conditions to minimise crosswinds. Somewhere around Mooncoin might have worked although I don't know what that area is like for fog.

dowlingm

Victor wrote: »

Sligo - peripheral location, who's natural catchment consists of parts of county Sligo. road improvements have extended this into Leitrim and South Donegal, but this is a double-edged sword and it has lost out to Knock and Dublin: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,561045,836981,4,1

In addition to which:


A runway extension was mooted but it would extend into the harbour which is a sensitive ecological area.

mayfly1

Would agree, unfortunately it looks like Waterford is now suffering from the Galway airport syndrome....dependent on one main airline, turboprops, and now motorway to Dublin that provides passengers with lower cost jet options....unless gov continues to fund airport with €m's of operational support, hard to see how it will continue to operate. It decided not to continue supporting Galway....so it will be under pressure to stop support to Waterford. It would be good to see another airline expand services like Flybe, however realistically if routes were not viable for EIR, then they wont work for Flybe either and they will know that from passenger #'s and yields that EIR were achieving.

CIE

Judgement Day wrote: »

Dublin, Cork or Shannon - enough airports for a country with no population

Then we already have too many motorways based on that assessment.

Our man in Havana

Waterfords direct passenger tax killed the airport.

Victor

CIE wrote: »

Then we already have too many motorways based on that assessment.

Indeed we do. Not all of theose roads needed to be built to motorway standard, especially those bits that had only been upgraded a few years previously.

There was no need to have two motorways to the south east, two heading in the Cork/Limerick direction, two heading in the Limerick/Galway direction and four crossing Meath.

Not building the M8 and M9 would have meant being able to complete the M11 to Waterford and build the M20 and M25 (or alternatively only building a modified M9 of the three).

Another option would have been to combine a route to Galway and Limerick, only splitting them at Tipperary.

V_Moth

Victor wrote: »

Indeed we do. Not all of theose roads needed to be built to motorway standard, especially those bits that had only been upgraded a few years previously.

There was no need to have two motorways to the south east, two heading in the Cork/Limerick direction, two heading in the Limerick/Galway direction and four crossing Meath.

Not building the M8 and M9 would have meant being able to complete the M11 to Waterford and build the M20 and M25 (or alternatively only building a modified M9 of the three).

Another option would have been to combine a route to Galway and Limerick, only splitting them at Tipperary.

Using Germany as a model, I think the best option for the motorways would have been a "H" pattern, as in one motorway from Cork to Derry along the west coast, with a spur to Dublin in Galway. The other side could have been Waterford/Wexford - Enniscorthy - Dublin - Belfast - Derry. But this is Fantasy Island stuff by this stage....

Back on topic, sad to hear that Waterford is losing its flights, but if the passenger numbers are not there then it was inevitable I guess.

dowlingm

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Waterfords direct passenger tax killed the airport.

I doubt the Bus Eireann X4 Dublin Airport helped. Didn't I hear something about a service due to start from Waterford to Cork Airport too? Can't find it in the NTA Planner though.

Jamie2k9

Didn't I hear something about a service due to start from Waterford to Cork Airport too? Can't find it in the NTA Planner though.

Can't see that happening as there would be no demand, there is already 13 services between Waterford-Cork with connection to the airport and if you live in Waterford City its now just as easy to get to Dublin Airport.

BE X4 service wouldn't make a huge differance to loads going to Dublin airport, there has being JJ buses.

end of the road

Victor wrote: »

Indeed we do. Not all of theose roads needed to be built to motorway standard, especially those bits that had only been upgraded a few years previously.

There was no need to have two motorways to the south east, two heading in the Cork/Limerick direction, two heading in the Limerick/Galway direction and four crossing Meath.

Not building the M8 and M9 would have meant being able to complete the M11 to Waterford and build the M20 and M25 (or alternatively only building a modified M9 of the three).

Another option would have been to combine a route to Galway and Limerick, only splitting them at Tipperary.

ah but shur we had to build them for the state merks, oh wait isn't it helicopters now? so your actually right after all, we didn't need as many motor ways.

CIE

Neworder79 wrote: »

Choosing a location where 60% of your catchment wasn't ocean would have helped.

Anywhere N/NW of the city would have put it bang on the axis of all the key routes through the SE region, bringing it well below 1 hour of all the major towns in Tipperary, Kilkenny, Carlow and Wexford (N25, N26, N/M9), and on the route of rail and bus services, with no loss of access to Waterford.

That would have made it a viable alternative to Dublin/Cork, and hugely increased the attractiveness to the wider catchment of Munster, who instead had no public transport option, drive on a slow road to Waterford, then a congested city centre with 1 river crossing and bridge lifts, followed by a potholed borheen to the far side of Tramore.

As usual there was no strategic planning, no vision, just looking for the cheapest option and more concern about county flag waving than viable infrastructure.

Setting out services based on county boundaries is ludicrous when our cities and county towns are in the low double figures. We can have viable, well serviced transport hubs if we plan logically and link transport nodes where they can reach the widest population and allow easy integration with other services.

Was any land available to do that? And assuming so, would Aer Arann then not have experienced a downturn in travel to that airport? What if such a location was also left bereft of a public transport link?

Neworder79

CIE wrote: »

Was any land available to do that? And assuming so, would Aer Arann then not have experienced a downturn in travel to that airport? What if such a location was also left bereft of a public transport link?

An abundance of farm land either side of the then N9 and rail line, but that would probably have increased cost over peripheral location.

As for public transport it took almost 20 years to get a minibus service to the current location. A location off the N9 would have had tens of passing bus services daily and could be connected with a stop on the rail line in time.

My point was psychologically someone in Kilkenny/Carlow/Tipperary didn't have much incentive to use their regional airport. But the airport is where it is and they have to make the best of it now.

road_high

Neworder79 wrote: »

An abundance of farm land either side of the then N9 and rail line, but that would probably have increased cost over peripheral location.

As for public transport it took almost 20 years to get a minibus service to the current location. A location off the N9 would have had tens of passing bus services daily and could be connected with a stop on the rail line in time.

My point was psychologically someone in Kilkenny/Carlow/Tipperary didn't have much incentive to use their regional airport. But the airport is where it is and they have to make the best of it now.

Absolutely my point. The time savings Waterford would offer are far outweighed by the huge advantages of range of flights/jets (non turbo props) and cheaper flights offered at Dublin.
That is the reality. It's half an hour nearer to KK or roughly same to Carlow as against Dublin. Why would you anyone bother with Waterford when Dublin has these offferings. If it could handle jets I think differently but it doesn't.

road_high

bk wrote: »

The unfortunate reality is that the new motorway network is making other sorts of infrastructure less relevant.

With Dublin Airport now just two hours up the road from Waterford, it doesn't make much sense to have so many airports.

They are having a similar impact on rail and sea ports.

Exactly. I can drive to Dublin of a morning and be at the car park entrasnce in little over an hour and catch a huge range of flights to so many places. It's a no-brainer.

Geog1234

dowlingm wrote: »

I doubt the Bus Eireann X4 Dublin Airport helped. Didn't I hear something about a service due to start from Waterford to Cork Airport too? Can't find it in the NTA Planner though.

There was a Waterford to Cork Airport Bus Éireann route for a while a few years ago (was shown in the 2004-2005 timetable and possibly others).

It departed Waterford at 05.45 and arrived at Cork Airport at 08.30. The evening return was at 21.30 from Cork Airport back in Waterford at midnight. It ran daily but on Sundays only the 21.30 ran. It was worked as a route 40 service, the morning service ran from Midleton to the Airport and then into Cork. The evening service started at the Airport, into Cork and then followed the usual route 40.

dowlingm

dowlingm wrote: »

I doubt the Bus Eireann X4 Dublin Airport helped. Didn't I hear something about a service due to start from Waterford to Cork Airport too? Can't find it in the NTA Planner though.

This must be what I saw before:
http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1202289664-43.pdf

road_high

Read elsewhere the airport is supposedly in talks with other carriers on new routes. I think all the cards like with any airline in this case. Be interesting to see if anything comes out of it.

Jamie2k9

Flybe have closed BHX route reservations form 6 Jan to 17 Feb so that means they are dropping for a few weeks or they are preparing to add routes using BHX based a/c which is possible during the winter months.

lickalike

What ever happened to the development tax passengers are forced to pay on departure. What started off in a Nissen Hut hasn't improved much. The only development seems to be the surplus employees twiddling their thumbs and the tarmac outside (Car Park) together with the pedestian crossing and the essential Wheel Clamps. How they can justify training two people to read one board pass and having a SNIFFER DOG is beyond me!

air2000

What ever happened to the development tax passengers are forced to pay on departure. What started off in a Nissen Hut hasn't improved much. The only development seems to be the surplus employees twiddling their thumbs and the tarmac outside (Car Park) together with the pedestian crossing and the essential Wheel Clamps. How they can justify training two people to read one board pass and having a SNIFFER DOG is beyond me!

Can I have some of whatever your smoking ....

GCU Flexible Demeanour

bk wrote: »

The unfortunate reality is that the new motorway network is making other sorts of infrastructure less relevant.

I know it might be just a choice of words, but is it an unfortunate reality if the motorways are having the impact of making other sorts of infrastructure less relevant?

V_Moth wrote: »

Using Germany as a model, I think the best option for the motorways would have been a "H" pattern, as in one motorway from Cork to Derry along the west coast, with a spur to Dublin in Galway. The other side could have been Waterford/Wexford - Enniscorthy - Dublin - Belfast - Derry. But this is Fantasy Island stuff by this stage....

I agree that what we have is what we have, but I just found myself questioning the relevance of Germany.

Why would a much larger country on the continent of Europe, connecting dozens of significant cities, be a model for an island like Ireland?

Where is this German 'H' pattern in evidence? Does it relate to any issue in the Irish context?

Does a motorway from Cork to Derry actually relate to expected transport demand? For the sake of argument, I'm trying to picture people travelling from Cork to Dublin via (presumably) Limerick and Galway.

corktina

Fantasy Island stuff for sure! I'd agree that M7/8/9/ is one motorway too many but to suggest a west coast motorway instead of the M7 and 8 is so bizarre, i can only think that WoT must have a new roads committee!

L1011

lickalike wrote: »

What ever happened to the development tax passengers are forced to pay on departure.

Its collected by the airline at purchase time, as it delivers a chronically bad impression to passengers to effectively mug them on the way out (ala Knock)

At this stage, I think its game over as I would have expected any takeover of the routes to be announced by now. The airport is just barely large enough for the Q400 and they already had an off-runway incident; its possible they don't want to be risking that multiple times a day as well as the commercial considerations.

dowlingm

MYOB wrote: »

The airport is just barely large enough for the Q400 and they already had an off-runway incident; its possible they don't want to be risking that multiple times a day as well as the commercial considerations.

CYTZ 3988ft vs EIWF 4701ft. Almost every flight into/out of CYTZ on a daily basis is a Porter or Air Canada Q400.

L1011

dowlingm wrote: »

CYTZ 3988ft vs EIWF 4701ft. Almost every flight into/out of CYTZ on a daily basis is a Porter or Air Canada Q400.

Think its turning areas or something, although the AAIU report for the off-runway seems to suggest its within spec and the pilot overcompensated when he didn't need to.

dowlingm

Here's the report: http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/REPORT%202012-019.pdf

This was the first time the Pilot had operated into EIWF. The lack of guidance lines on the threshold turning circle of RWY 21 and the fact that the Pilot was unaware that the diameter of the turning pad was more than adequate for a 180 degree turn, led him to being over cautious while entering the turn. As the Pilot was steering from the left hand side of the cockpit his ability to judge the position of the right hand wheels was impaired. This led to the aircraft being positioned too close to the edge of the pavement area and an inadvertent excursion from the hard surface on to soft gravel, thus becoming stuck. The slow speed at which this happened and the gentle nature of the retardation resulted in no damage to the aircraft.

The Investigation notes turn pad guidance lines were not provided at EIWF in accordance with the requirements of Annex 14 and accordingly a Safety Recommendation is issued in this regard.

Johnny901

These incidents happen from time to time, even at the large airports (BA 747 in Shannon many years ago). Waterford's runway is more than long enough for a Dash 8.

I also don't think its "game over" yet for Waterford, they have a lot of local support/goodwill and with SAR and Flybe the airport is far from closing. Anyone watching over the last few years would agree that Aer Arann did not operate the Waterford routes to their full potential. The change to Southend, when Luton was doing well, even in a reccession, was a crazy move.

Hopefully in 2013 Waterford can attract an airline that will develop services in a proper mannrer.

lickalike

air2000 wrote: »

Can I have some of whatever your smoking ....

Air2000, I don't smoke, simply saying it how I find it. A small airport with surplus staff and added extras, funded by passengers yet they cannot keep flights running to and from London. CRAZY!