estimate for patio

gibgob

Hi, just got a quote to do 45sq mtr patio at €3,500. price is for the supply and labour .i'm told price includes

• digging out,
• all waste removed from site,
• 4inches compacted hardcore,
• plain grey flags (400 x 400) layed on wet mix of sand and cement.
• red brick border in curved design were grass meets patio.
• two aj and three gullys to have risers fitted
• drain channel fitted at patio doors

price seems a bit steep but to be honest i havent a clue. garden is fairly level so I'd imagine no major digging but we are getting patio raised couple inches higher so we dont have big step down from patio doors. hope this query is not a case of how long is a piece of string,
thanks in advance for any replies

rje66

gibgob wrote: »

Hi, just got a quote to do 45sq mtr patio at €3,500. price is for the supply and labour .i'm told price includes

• digging out,
• all waste removed from site,
• 4inches compacted hardcore,
• plain grey flags (400 x 400) layed on wet mix of sand and cement.
• red brick border in curved design were grass meets patio.
• two aj and three gullys to have risers fitted
• drain channel fitted at patio doors

price seems a bit steep but to be honest i havent a clue. garden is fairly level so I'd imagine no major digging but we are getting patio raised couple inches higher so we dont have big step down from patio doors. hope this query is not a case of how long is a piece of string,
thanks in advance for any replies

Its not too far off the mark if it includes vat@13.5%. If its a no vat job haggle to about 3200 . win win for both of you. Let us know how it goes.

paddy147

rje66 wrote: »

Its not too far off the mark if it includes vat@13.5%. If its a no vat job haggle to about 3200 . win win for both of you. Let us know how it goes.

Well I got 52 sq mtr of paving done (dark raven and grey slainey paving),2 x 9 inch thick boundary walls with 12 inch wide cappings and 2 large pillars with 24 inch cappings,and white coloured external rendering for 3600 euro.

paddy147

gibgob wrote: »

Hi, just got a quote to do 45sq mtr patio at €3,500. price is for the supply and labour .i'm told price includes

• digging out,
• all waste removed from site,
• 4inches compacted hardcore,
• plain grey flags (400 x 400) layed on wet mix of sand and cement.
• red brick border in curved design were grass meets patio.
• two aj and three gullys to have risers fitted
• drain channel fitted at patio doors

price seems a bit steep but to be honest i havent a clue. garden is fairly level so I'd imagine no major digging but we are getting patio raised couple inches higher so we dont have big step down from patio doors. hope this query is not a case of how long is a piece of string,
thanks in advance for any replies

Did he give you a price for a flag or per meter for the flags??

Would you not go got a "4 size mix" of flags as upposed to just normal 400 x 400 flags????

I rekon a 4 size mix would look rather nice and interesting.:)

paddy147

pic of a 4 size flag set.

macadam

gibgob wrote: »

Hi, just got a quote to do 45sq mtr patio at €3,500. price is for the supply and labour .i'm told price includes

• digging out,
• all waste removed from site,
• 4inches compacted hardcore,
• plain grey flags (400 x 400) layed on wet mix of sand and cement.
• red brick border in curved design were grass meets patio.
• two aj and three gullys to have risers fitted
• drain channel fitted at patio doors

price seems a bit steep but to be honest i havent a clue. garden is fairly level so I'd imagine no major digging but we are getting patio raised couple inches higher so we dont have big step down from patio doors. hope this query is not a case of how long is a piece of string,
thanks in advance for any replies

Seems a bit steep for plain grey flags, the 2 ajs would ideally need to be recessed.

rje66

paddy147 wrote: »

pic of a 4 size flag set.

These would be a bit more expensive than OP . But agree would look nicer.

gibgob

paddy147 wrote: »

Well I got 52 sq mtr of paving done (dark raven and grey slainey paving),2 x 9 inch thick boundary walls with 12 inch wide cappings and 2 large pillars with 24 inch cappings,and white coloured external rendering for 3600
Thanks for all replies. looks like you did well , a lot of extra work and only 100 extra in the difference, thanks for photos also. anyway i changed my mind about what i wanted done and had the guy back out. Heres where we're at now:

• 60 sq mtrs indian sandstone various sizes 300x300, 600x300, 600x600, 600x900. laid on full bed of mortar on compacted hardcore.
• 14 linear mtrs matching kerbstone.
• 2 x recessed aj 300 x 300.
• 11 linear mtrs of drainage channel with galvinised grate(connected to rain water waste).
• two separate trenches to be dug further down garden to alleviate drainage problems on grassed area. trenches to be filled with dry fill and lawn returned to existing condition.
• all waste removed from site.
• price to include all misc items as discussed such as decorative pebbles around border, drainage channel at patio doors, raising flower bed to patio level , sealing patio etc....

total price €4,200.

The price is cash price , he can add the vat if i want. the guy actually seems quite sound , i'm hoping that replies are positive as i would like this guy to do the work as he came reccomended, maybe i should still get another qoute.

paddy147

gibgob wrote: »

paddy147 wrote: »

Well I got 52 sq mtr of paving done (dark raven and grey slainey paving),2 x 9 inch thick boundary walls with 12 inch wide cappings and 2 large pillars with 24 inch cappings,and white coloured external rendering for 3600

Thanks for all replies. looks like you did well , a lot of extra work and only 100 extra in the difference, thanks for photos also. anyway i changed my mind about what i wanted done and had the guy back out. Heres where we're at now:

• 60 sq mtrs indian sandstone various sizes 300x300, 600x300, 600x600, 600x900. laid on full bed of mortar on compacted hardcore.
• 14 linear mtrs matching kerbstone.
• 2 x recessed aj 300 x 300.
• 11 linear mtrs of drainage channel with galvinised grate(connected to rain water waste).
• two separate trenches to be dug further down garden to alleviate drainage problems on grassed area. trenches to be filled with dry fill and lawn returned to existing condition.
• all waste removed from site.
• price to include all misc items as discussed such as decorative pebbles around border, drainage channel at patio doors, raising flower bed to patio level , sealing patio etc....

total price €4,200.

The price is cash price , he can add the vat if i want. the guy actually seems quite sound , i'm hoping that replies are positive as i would like this guy to do the work as he came reccomended, maybe i should still get another qoute.

So is it 45 sq mtrs or 60 sq mtrs???

Your 1st post says 45 sq mtrs.


How good is the indian sandstone??

Because there is good stuff and their is also the cheap shyte stuff too.


You should check this out and find out where the sandstone is comming from.

goat2

why not get the slab of cement with the imprented flags on it, it would be far cheaper, i see a lovely pateo in a friends garden done in this way, no need to worry about weeds, as it is a solid slab of cement and it can be done in the colours desired and the pattern also, i think that would be much easire faster and so cheaper also easier maintenance

paddy147

goat2 wrote: »

why not get the slab of cement with the imprented flags on it, it would be far cheaper, i see a lovely pateo in a friends garden done in this way, no need to worry about weeds, as it is a solid slab of cement and it can be done in the colours desired and the pattern also, i think that would be much easire faster and so cheaper also easier maintenance

I looked into that inprinting as an option for my garden,and I steered clear of that for 2 important reasons.........


1-looks shyte 2-3 years down the line when its faded/peeling and needs repainting/resealing.

Frost and ice attacks it in a big way.


2-If you need to access an underground utility,you have to cut a strip,dig it out and then reconcrete it....very noticable and looks shyte/ugly.




With pavers or flags,you can remove/lift up the pavers/flags you need to remove,access your underground utilities and then put them back and you are none the wizer.

Maudi

paddy147 wrote: »

I looked into that inprinting as an option for my garden,and I steered clear of that for 2 important reasons.........


1-looks shyte 2-3 years down the line when its faded/peeling and needs repainting/resealing.

Frost and ice attacks it in a big way.


2-If you need to access an underground utility,you have to cut a strip,dig it out and then reconcrete it....very noticable and looks shyte/ugly.




With pavers or flags,you can remove/lift up the pavers/flags you need to remove,access your underground utilities and then put them back and you are none the wizer.

same as above.that imprint concrete form method peels like crazy once the frost hits it.

rje66

(How good is the indian sandstone??

Because there is good stuff and their is also the cheap shyte stuff too.


You should check this out and find out where the sandstone is comming from.[/Quote])


Please describe, in your experience, the differences between these.

paddy147

rje66 wrote: »

(How good is the indian sandstone??

Because there is good stuff and their is also the cheap shyte stuff too.


You should check this out and find out where the sandstone is comming from.

)


Please describe, in your experience, the differences between these.[/QUOTE]

Shyte stuff thats uneven and 15-20mm,(Mint and Modak) its dusty,brittle and cracks/breaks up and stains easily under any sort heavy rain or pressure/weight or any algae growth.


This website is worth a read.:)

http://www.pavingexpert.com/maintain_02.htm#aml

paddy147

Friend of mine got 15-20mm Mint Sandstone on the cheap cheap and it was installed early summer of 2011..it now looks bad,is badly stained and looks like an old worn patio,and thats after only 1 year.

To say my friend isnt happy,would be an understatement indeed.

paddy147

Also worth a read.......especially the 1st paragraph.

http://www.dyg.ie/forum/indian-sanstone-think-again

rje66

Shyte stuff thats uneven and 15-20mm- its natural stone straight out of ground, why should it be exactly the same thickness?. Also if laid correctly on a wet sand/cement mix , by an expert, the thickness shouldnt matter.

(Mint and Modak) its dusty

,brittle and cracks/breaks up some natural stone will have fissures/cracks in it but ive never used this stone where more than a few slabs were cracked. These get used for cuts

:
stains easily under any sort heavy rain
or pressure/weight or any algae growth.

Patios, like cars or windows need a bit of maintenance. A power wash once or twice a year and sealed when dry will make all the difference. Also prevent leaving fallen leaves on it for long periods of time as this prevents the surface drying out, encouraging algae growth.
If paving has become very dirty , apply Sodium Hypochloride, then power wash 20 mins later. results are .

macadam

Sandstone needs more maintenance than other types of paving, and is more difficult to clean with lichens that penetrate through the slabs from one side to the other.
You have to consider the climate we have which is 90% damp and wet over the course of a year and is wholly unsuitable for some of the paving being laid,. I have been sealing some jobs over this past two years with a ten year sealer, and I must admit it really helps with algae, lichens, moss and weeds keeping all these to a minimum and eliminating the algae completely.
Choose your paving wisely and yes get 3 quotes and as much advise as you can handle.

gibgob

Hi all, thanks again for all replies,
the price is for 60sq mtrs of indian sandstone mint fossil 25mm calibrated which he is going to seal. can't believe this is being described as "shyte". I picked this out as love how it looked. I also liked the uneven one, surely once it's sealed it makes no difference . Looked up pavingexpert website and it seems that all the pourous paving is prone to staining , algae , lichens and so on and that sealing and maintenance is the key.

wildlifeboy

I am afraid Paddy is right. I have just completed 35 sq metres of a sandstone patio and edged with basalt but about a third of the patio has algae especially in the shaded area's. now i have looked at the links I am going to go hard at it next spring with bleach and a power washer and then reseal it.
will i have to do this once a year do you reckon? ill try to take some pics and upload them

rebelden

Paddy is that kilarsan cobble paving on your driveway? How’s it holding up for you? How do you find it from a cleaning/maintenance, durability/ability to hold colour etc. Planning in laying a footpath in either cobble paving/ flags sometime in the new year. Any recommendations/ opinions very much appreciated.

paddy147

rebelden wrote: »

Paddy is that kilarsan cobble paving on your driveway? How’s it holding up for you? How do you find it from a cleaning/maintenance, durability/ability to hold colour etc. Planning in laying a footpath in either cobble paving/ flags sometime in the new year. Any recommendations/ opinions very much appreciated.

It is indeed.

Its doing very well indeed.

10 year sealer (from Kilsaran) on it and so far so good,after 2 years.Will probably hose it down and reseal it next summer though...peace of mind

Like any stone or concrete product,they will weather in a little.

But I have to say that Im rather impressed with them.

My girlfriend lifted/dug up a few rows of it to dig out and built raised bed areas on both sides of the driveway to plant some hornbeam hedging.

She re-installed them and again,not a single issue with them.:)

A quick sweep down with the brush every few months and its grand


I also got alot of Connemara walling off them too.

Its a mortar free walling system.:)

rebelden

Looks great Paddy. I suppose the sealing is the trick. What kind of bobs did you pay per metre for the cobble paving?

paddy147

rebelden wrote: »

Looks great Paddy. I suppose the sealing is the trick. What kind of bobs did you pay per metre for the cobble paving?

I got a very good deal after a bit of a haggle.

Smiths Builders Providers worked out cheaper than from Kilsaran Direct for the pavers..(that was over 2 years ago,so things could be different now).

But when it came to the Connemara walling,it was the chap in Kilsaran HQ out in Cloneee,that gave me the better deal than Smiths.

Mad or what??:pac::D


Oh and their gardens in Clonee are rather nice to walk around too.

Some very interesting garden designs with water features,streams and ponds too.:)

rebelden

Sound man Paddy.

wildlifeboy

Paddy, can you show me what you did with the mortar free connemara stone. i want to use that somewhere

gibgob

is yellow limestone paving as prone to staining , algae etc.. It's dearer than the mint or modak which i've defo been turned off having researched it a bit more.

kittythehare27

Hi there! In relation to having that pavement done, please, please, please make sure that they DO dig out everything and not lay anything over concrete already in situ. We paid a guy €6,000 7 years ago to do something similar to our house and within two years it started cracking. Once the frost got to it then in Dec 2010 it just erupted and is now in a worse state than before. There are plenty of cowboys around so I would recommend you go knocking on doors of former customers of this guy before agreeing to him doing the job. We've now been quoted €4,000 to repair the damage... out of the question for us, having already parted with €6,000. Good luck!

wildlifeboy

I laid over 50 percent concrete and i hear that it is fine. is it the earth beside the concrete that is moving? I cant imagine the flags are moving on top of the concrete. how many inches of sand were between the concrete and the flags? was it a cement sand mix? was there hardcore put in the rest of the area?

kittythehare27

It wasn't flagstones, it was this cobbling effect and the cowboy laid it directly onto the concrete. I remember querying the wisdom of this at the time but he assured me "twud be fine". The garden area (alongside the original concrete driveway) which he dug out and prepared properly before 'cobbling' is still perfectfly fine. As for sand quantities etc, I'm afraid I wouldn't have a clue. All I'm saying is that - in my humble opinion - nothing should be laid upon original concrete. It should be dug up and that area prepared equally well in advance of laying any new patio surfacing.

Sonnenblumen

OP - you would be much better off to ignore uniformed opinions and instead go and speak to the people who can answer your questions. Any child knows, anything left out in the weather for any period of time will discolour, to what extent and can it be remedied will depend on a number of factors.

Natural stone is a premium material, often it is spoilt by poor workmanship, usually because of inexperience, price etc but not exclusively. Sandstone (and there are many colour choices) remains a very popular selling stone for domestic gardens. Often other factors need to be considered when selecting a natural stone. Similarly one needs to consider which contractor to use, going simply on the price can be risky. More worrying is using anyone willing to do a job costing € 4k for cash. There is no contract in law for cash work. It is not too difficult to find a list of professional installers, but beware, a patio is part of a garden and if you're planning a large patio, perhaps you need someone whose expertise extends beyond laying patios?

I haven't been around here for a while, not surprise to see it is still business as usual, with the same 'experts' rabbiting on with ridiculous critical comments which have no basis in sense, fact or experience.

I'd be very happy to give you a steer (on PM) to enable you make an informed decision.

Finally, yes there are other natural stones worth considering.