Aer Lingus or Ryanair?

Macers

Hi guys,

Looking for your guidance if possible.

If there are any pilots on boards - can you please confirm if you had the option to pilot for Aer Lingus or Ryanair - which would you choose?

IngazZagni

Can I ask why you would ask such a question?

I think it's well known that Aer Lingus have better terms and conditions than Ryanair although they are being eroded slightly. The only benefit I would be aware of being in Ryanair are the rosters.

Macers

wrote:

Just looking into my options!

Thanks...

IngazZagni

In the industry today you rarely get a choice of who to work for as jobs are so few and far between. You may end up having to move to the other side of the world just to find a low paying job to build hours before you even get a sniff back in Europe. It's different for everyone of course, some are luckier than others. But the industry is in the gutter and I would really think long and hard before considering investing in it.

keroseneboy

There is a much better chance of getting based in Dublin if you work for Aer Lingus. I am told that pilots prefer the Boeing 737-800NGX that Ryanair fly over the Airbus
A320-214 which Aer Lingus have 30 -odd.

LeftBase

Macers wrote: »

Hi guys,

Looking for your guidance if possible.

If there are any pilots on boards - can you please confirm if you had the option to pilot for Aer Lingus or Ryanair - which would you choose?

Macers wrote: »

Just looking into my options!

Thanks...

Unless you are in possession of 3000+ hours on the A320 you don't have too many options in this case.....

Bearcat

keroseneboy wrote: »

There is a much better chance of getting based in Dublin if you work for Aer Lingus. I am told that pilots prefer the Boeing 737-800NGX that Ryanair fly over the Airbus
A320-214 which Aer Lingus have 30 -odd.

What pilots? It's a real horses for course scenario. A lot of folk starting off believe little or no real handling is attained on the airbus due to its electric characteristics. Believe me you can fly an airbus like a beer truck just like a Boeing and likewise the reciprocal.

Pilotdude5

I for one can't afford Ryanair. Even if they bonded you I don't particularly want to stay in Europe anymore. The LoCo - Sandpit - back to Europe career path just doesn't appeal to me.

james142

Aer Lingus! When Ryanair's CEO Michael o'leary was about his thoughts on peoples dreams of becoming a pilot, he said that you should find a proper job.

LeftBase

james142 wrote: »

Aer Lingus! When Ryanair's CEO Michael o'leary was about his thoughts on peoples dreams of becoming a pilot, he said that you should find a proper job.

And he made a headline by saying it!

There is no real issue here. Aer Lingus will not take people fresh from flight school so anyone who wants to get into Aer Lingus will need to go elsewhere first!

bluecode

They have taken people fresh from flight school and no doubt will again in the future. Ryanair don't really take people from flight school in fact. Arguably they don't hire pilots at all. The risk is entirely the candidates. They pay for their training and if they reach the standard. They might be contracted to fly for Ryanair or not as the case maybe.

But it is a no brainer: Aer Lingus obviously. At the moment.

It may not always be the case. If or when Aer Lingus comes out of this. It will bear a greater resemblence to Ryanair than hithertoo it has been. Mind you with some of their unions seemingly bent on self destruction. That is no certainty.

I do think that Aer Lingus has been protected to some extent by it's part ownership by Ryanair. It's not in FR's interest to kill the golden goose at the moment. But if they are forced to give up their shareholding. The gloves will come off. MoL wants what they have and he'll get it one way or another. I think a lot of people have missed the strategy involved here. Ryanair drives off other airlines when it operates out of airports. Aer Lingus is just another airline. He's left it alone to some extent until he sees how is plan works out. If he can't buy it, he'll compete it out of business and pick up the pieces at that point. Either way he wins. It's just business.

Tenger

bluecode wrote: »

I do think that Aer Lingus has been protected to some extent by it's part ownership by Ryanair. .......But if they are forced to give up their shareholding. The gloves will come off......If he can't buy it, he'll compete it out of business and pick up the pieces at that point. Either way he wins. It's just business.

Well in the last 10 years EI have been the only airline actually competing with FR in their home/main markets. They have managed to survive so far.

I do agree that if/when FR are told they cannot buy EI we could well see a flood of new FR routes from DUB to undercut EI.

Fully Established

[QUOTE=bluecode;

I do think that Aer Lingus has been protected to some extent by it's part ownership by Ryanair. It's not in FR's interest to kill the golden goose at the moment. But if they are forced to give up their shareholding. The gloves will come off. MoL wants what they have and he'll get it one way or another. I think a lot of people have missed the strategy involved here. Ryanair drives off other airlines when it operates out of airports. Aer Lingus is just another airline. He's left it alone to some extent until he sees how is plan works out. If he can't buy it, he'll compete it out of business and pick up the pieces at that point. Either way he wins. It's just business.[/QUOTE]

I think the strategy MOL tried here was to cause a bit of interest in Aer Lingus and ultimately cause a rise in the EI share price and it would have gave him the chance to sell his 29% holding , in june when he announced the takeover bid the Aer Lingus share price rose by over 38%.It would also help MOL save face by recovering some of his loss with the Aer Lingus shares when he paid over the top for the shares , E2.80 per share he paid which he now values at E1.30 , not great business .

bluecode

Yes MoL took a chance, didn't work out for him, yet. MoL has not lost face. He just lost the first half. Once he has no further interest in Aer Lingus financially. He will certainly have no emotional interest. The one and only reason Ryanair hasn't put Aer Lingus to the sword in Dublin Airport is this shareholding.

MoL does not lose. I really think people need to understand that.

View Profile

bluecode wrote: »

MoL does not lose. I really think people need to understand that.

He does lose. It's just that he hides it well.

A319er

Let me see now

Fuel hedging , took him a while to work that one out but he said it cost him 250m usd one year getting it wrong

Huge hit on aer lingus shares

So many court cases he has lost its endless , but one that just about somes him up was in relation to the lady who was given free tickets for life for being millioneth FR passenger, had it in writing from CX,
MOL decides to withdraw the offer and would you believe he went all the thru our legal system , loosing each time until he finally had to honour the written contract.

What did Justice Peter Kelly say about him in the commercial court..

The truth and Mr OLeary are infrequent travellers.....MOL had to apologise and backtrack on all his statements in realtion to that case.

No wonder Europe dont beleive his words in relation to opening up competition if he gets EI , MOL and the truth .....

Milan Cobian

MoL does not lose. I really think people need to understand that.

Quit the hyperbole. He's a human being. Human beings are fallible and human beings can and do lose. Nobody is congenitally immune from the possibility.

Flier

Just to clarify, EI do employ low hours / straight out of flight school, and rosters have improved loads. A320 now is 5/3. Why would anyone want to work for the other shower?!

LeftBase

Flier wrote: »

Just to clarify, EI do employ low hours / straight out of flight school, and rosters have improved loads. A320 now is 5/3. Why would anyone want to work for the other shower?!

It's very rare and usually due to "other factors"

Flier

LeftBase wrote: »

It's very rare and usually due to "other factors"

Very cryptic - care to elaborate??

LeftBase

Flier wrote: »

Very cryptic - care to elaborate??

Read these boards long enough and you'll see many listed. One will be nepotism and whether or not that happens is a subject of much debate, and others are to do with deals with Oxford or FTE etc.
It is very rare though no impossible for EI to take on fATPL applicants.

Flier

Well quite a few 2 stripers wandering around over the past couple of years, all direct entry, so I guess it's not that rare. The cadet program might have put a bit of a dampner on it for the next short while, but definitely not impossible.

Scortho

A319er wrote: »

Let me see now

Fuel hedging , took him a while to work that one out but he said it cost him 250m usd one year getting it wrong

Huge hit on aer lingus shares

So many court cases he has lost its endless , but one that just about somes him up was in relation to the lady who was given free tickets for life for being millioneth FR passenger, had it in writing from CX,
MOL decides to withdraw the offer and would you believe he went all the thru our legal system , loosing each time until he finally had to honour the written contract.

What did Justice Peter Kelly say about him in the commercial court..

The truth and Mr OLeary are infrequent travellers.....MOL had to apologise and backtrack on all his statements in realtion to that case.

No wonder Europe dont beleive his words in relation to opening up competition if he gets EI , MOL and the truth .....

Fuel hedging may have cost him 259 m one year, but how much has it saved him in all the other years?

The aer lingus debacle is just playing around money.
He likes a laugh and his company can well afford it. Just look at his airline compared to the airline its based on....Southwest. Ryanair makes much larger profits than Herb and co.

The court cases have cost him miniscule amounts compared to the amount of publicity it has gained his company.
He sells flights reasonably cheap, gets you their on time (he may over estimate the time it takes to get their) but at least it looks good and rarely looses your luggage.

LeftBase

Flier wrote: »

Well quite a few 2 stripers wandering around over the past couple of years, all direct entry, so I guess it's not that rare. The cadet program might have put a bit of a dampner on it for the next short while, but definitely not impossible.

When the economy took a dive a lot of high earning captains were given good retirement deals to get them off the wage bill and a lot of people were taken on. Many may have been fATPLs. However in the current climate it is less common.

Flier

LeftBase wrote: »

When the economy took a dive a lot of high earning captains were given good retirement deals to get them off the wage bill and a lot of people were taken on. Many may have been fATPLs. However in the current climate it is less common.

I guess that would be the cyclical nature of the industry. Look, there are airlines who never employ low hours guys, airlines who always want jet time, and airlines who will always want a particular type rating. Aer Lingus don't fall into any of those categories. That's not to say they won't be looking for a particular profile at any one time. I certainly wouldn't advise guys not to apply!

LeftBase

Flier wrote: »

I guess that would be the cyclical nature of the industry. Look, there are airlines who never employ low hours guys, airlines who always want jet time, and airlines who will always want a particular type rating. Aer Lingus don't fall into any of those categories. That's not to say they won't be looking for a particular profile at any one time. I certainly wouldn't advise guys not to apply

I'd advise people to throw CVs everywhere but not to turn down job offers from Ryanair, Easyjet, Wizz etc etc hoping to get Aer Lingus! I know some people who have expressed that intention!

Technoprisoner

its funny reading all these post saying that ryanair wont get the deal... i have a funny feeling that they will get aer lingus, and when/if it does happen i cant wait to see the sort rants on here about it lol

bluecode

A319er wrote: »

Let me see now

Fuel hedging , took him a while to work that one out but he said it cost him 250m usd one year getting it wrong

Huge hit on aer lingus shares

So many court cases he has lost its endless , but one that just about somes him up was in relation to the lady who was given free tickets for life for being millioneth FR passenger, had it in writing from CX,
MOL decides to withdraw the offer and would you believe he went all the thru our legal system , loosing each time until he finally had to honour the written contract.

What did Justice Peter Kelly say about him in the commercial court..

The truth and Mr OLeary are infrequent travellers.....MOL had to apologise and backtrack on all his statements in realtion to that case.

No wonder Europe dont beleive his words in relation to opening up competition if he gets EI , MOL and the truth .....

Oh yes, he doesn't win every battle but last time I looked he was winning the war.

I'm no fanboy of his but the facts speak for themselves.

IngazZagni

shanegorman wrote: »

Although Ryanair receive so much criticism they still land as safe as Aer Lingus compare them below;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Mz8h-pryQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF7qzGNEhCo

I'm sorry to be blunt but to say a smooth landing is a safe landing is absolutely nonsense. Boeing actually recommend firm landings as this decreases stop distance and prevents floating as well as possible aquaplaning on wet runways.

shanegorman

IngazZagni wrote: »

I'm sorry to be blunt but to say a smooth landing is a safe landing is absolutely nonsense. Boeing actually recommend firm landings as this decreases stop distance and prevents floating as well as possible aquaplaning on wet runways.

Oh no you're fine - many people believe though that Ryanair perform some sort of acrobatics, a friend of mine on a Ryanair flight recently was intrigued to see how we would land, he thought just because it was Ryanair that it would be terrible. This video just shows a comparison to such people who perceive this in such a way.

aerhead

shanegorman wrote: »

Oh no you're fine - many people believe though that Ryanair perform some sort of acrobatics, a friend of mine on a Ryanair flight recently was intrigued to see how we would land, he thought just because it was Ryanair that it would be terrible. This video just shows a comparison to such people who perceive this in such a way.

Before anybody gives you a roasting what age are you and your friend?