Club coaching vs Training plans

happygoose

Not directly related, but a question on using a specific running plan (Daniels/P&D for example) versus not using one...

Is there much to be lost by not adopting a strict training plan? I.e. by just going to your local club and doing your tempo and interval sessions during the week and your long run at the weekend and filling in the mileage in between these days?

Any club runners that I know generally do this, the club coach will be aware of marathon focused runners within the club and will pitch the tempo/interval sessions accordingly for them.

If 'Runner A' was to follow Daniels Marathon Plan A for example, and 'Runner B' of equal ability was to go to his club and do the sessions as above plus his weekly long run, both runners doing equal mileage per week, will one runner perform better over the other?

Krusty_Clown

happygoose wrote: »

Not directly related, but a question on using a specific running plan (Daniels/P&D for example) versus not using one...

Is there much to be lost by not adopting a strict training plan? I.e. by just going to your local club and doing your tempo and interval sessions during the week and your long run at the weekend and filling in the mileage in between these days?

Any club runners that I know generally do this, the club coach will be aware of marathon focused runners within the club and will pitch the tempo/interval sessions accordingly for them.

If 'Runner A' was to follow Daniels Marathon Plan A for example, and 'Runner B' of equal ability was to go to his club and do the sessions as above plus his weekly long run, both runners doing equal mileage per week, will one runner perform better over the other?

I guess that depends on how good the coaching is. With a good coach I would imagine that the coached runner would have a massive advantage, particularly if the plan is adapted on a regular basis based on feedback and cues from the runner.

With a poor marathon coach or a plan not aimed at the marathon, I would imagine the result would be significantly closer (if not leaning on the side of the non-coached runner, because if a plan does not take the needs of the runner (or the distance) into account, the plan could be counter-productive. A runner following an established book plan still has the flexibility to customize the plan as needed, but if your coach is putting you through a 5k training plan when your goal is the marathon, then you will likely develop sufficient speed at the cost of endurance. I am of course guessing here, as I've never been coached.

ecoli

Mod: I have split this thread as both are good topics and deserve there own response

/unmod: ill be back shortly with my own response:D

tHE vAGGABOND

Great question and one I have wrestled with.

I joined a club to get better, but miss all the mid-week sessions due to work issues of one type or another and do wonder if I just draw a line in the sand and say I go to my club on Tuesday at 6pm, and feck yis it would be better all round for my running

One of the things I love about running for me, is the freedom to train when I want, around my own schedule. So I run really early mornings a lot, but that said, what I miss is someone shouting at me and urging me to finish out a lap or a session and its all too easy to wimp out when your doing it on your own...

ecoli

I think KC is right you have to look at the quality of the coach and their aims. If the aim is to conduct an all inclusive session for members of varying ability and vary distance targets you may no be getting the best bang for your buck.

That is not to say that this is not beneficial (at times). Often people become so focused on a target that they work to there strengths year round without addressing there weaknesses for example a speedy person is lacking in strength might opt away away from LSRs, tempos, shorter recovery aerobic work, where as people used to longer distances may shy away from either sessions all together or more specifically certain types of sessions (running economy style sessions, vo2 max style sessions, short hill reps etcs). In these cases general club can have major benefits as they work on all round running specific fitness, (as per say general fitness) this way they are a better all round runner going in ato a specific training phase with a particular target in mind (how many times do we hear people dropping down distance to work on something without actually taking on board the change in dynamics in there training).

On the other hand training plans have there benefits also as they are designed with an overall approach in mind working towards a single target. This specificity can be crucial in terms of preparing you for a race target however while people may feel there is less knowledge required by just following a plan I would argue the opposite. In order to utilise a program to its fullest potential you need to have a deeper understanding of both the philosophies behind it and of running methodology in general. Any plan set in stone without flexibility for injury, fatigue, races, life commitments is doomed to be an inadequate results unless you have the knowledge to make changes to account for these factors.

So if I had to make a choice I would say that unless you had a good coaching knowledge yourself in order to be able to make changes (logically) then a decent quality coach would be the better of the two

Timmaay

I know athletes who would be well able to coach themselves, write theirown training plans (not even mind just follow an internet/preset training plan, which anyone can do), but they still choose to have a coach over them. A good coach should have that important external viewpoint, and generally always takes an unbiased opinion, whereas when the athlete is coaching themselves, it can be hard to take that step back say when an injury is coming on, or react in the right way when they are going through a bad patch etc.

Moreso looking coaching within a club perspective then, there is the added benefit of having training partners, and access to knowledge of things like physio/vo2 etc etc like what ecoli said, which can either come directly from the coach, from other club members, or from higher up at regional/national (or indead just private) workshops from experts, all which usually can be setup from within the club structure.

Of course all of the above is within an ideal club setup, a good training plan that works for yourself will always be better than a bad coach!

ThePiedPiper

I've sort of done a trial of this one in a couple of marathons. For my Spring 2011 marathon, I did pretty much all the training by myself, save for the odd recovery run with a few lads from the club. Every run was on my terms, did 12-15 mile Wednesday PMP runs, did all the LSRs exactly how I wanted to do them. Ran a marathon in 2:58:23.

For my Autumn marathon this year, the majority of my mid-week runs were with the club, and none was over 10 miles long. There was all sorts in there; 5 mile tempos, mile intervals, steady state, and speeds anywhere from my 5k - marathon pace. There's no way I could say it was marathon specific, but the buns and cakes are too nice to miss out on the club runs.. In fairness, most of the LSRs were on my own terms. The result; a 2:58.16 marathon. Same person, more or less same fitness levels, fairly differnent training, exactly the same race result.

Timmaay

Would be interesting to see what the Boards split is on this, We should run a poll to see if you have a coach or follow a program!