Yet another "bouncer/security" rant

gimmick

Was in a certain pub in town on the Saturday night of the Jazz weekend last week. It was pretty full as they had 2 very good acts playing. Great atmosphere all round as the severely over priced drinks were flowing. We were at a table with 2 other groups, about maybe 10-12 people in total.

Anyway, the tables had lights coming down to them from the ceiling and one of the girls in another group start swinging the light. No real harm, just a small bit of messing, though I felt probably shouldn't be doing it. Along comes Mr Security "If I see any of you swinging that again, you will all be FUCKED out the door" he shouted. I looked up at him and said "excuse me, I wasn't swinging that so you are throwing me nowhere if it is swung again", at which point he told me he tells me that if I speak to him like that again, I am out. Now i probably should have taken the high road and said nothing else, but I was ****ed if I was letting this jobsworth prick speak to me like that, so I stood up and said "do not speak down to me and do not tell me my group is getting thrown out for something we have no part in. He says he assumes everyone at the one table is in the same group to which I told him not to make assumptions and please do not speak down to me. He continued to get more and more aggressive until something else caught his eye and he muttered something about having his eye on us.

That is just one fella. My buddy was coming in later and after he paid he asked a security where the stairs where. The bouncer told him to get back in the queue and pay and stop trying to skip the queue. Once my buddy had it confirmed he had paid by the girl taking the cash, the bouncer just pointed at the stairs no apology.

I emailed the pub and posted on their facebook page about it, but surprise surprise, no response.

I will not be darkening the places doorstep again.

tipptopper

May as well name and shame?

Dicky Pride

You sounded like a bit of a muppet yourself tbh. An aggressive one at that.

gimmick

Sound dicky, but I never raised my voice to him. If you allow people speak down to you like a child in a schoolyard, more power you.

Had he come over and said "lads, stop that will ye" the issue would have been sorted. Instead it was bully boy aggression.

applehunter

Name and shame Gimmick.

gimmick

Naming and shaming normally results in the thread being locked.

staker

I wouldn't not darken the door again Gimmick just cos of one ignoramus.
But I would expect some sort of reply from them before doing so though.

irishfeen

Bouncers in the city are on an awful powertrip, if they take a dislike to you, you maze well just give up. I actually hate going out in the city, sometimes it's just not worth the bother and is alot easier going out around the county.

If I were you I'd go back next week, if he is there and says anything just hang around and wreck his head asking questions... They hate that

Lucyn

I don't understand how they get away with this type of carry on. They make people queue up in freezing weather, treat them like cattle, then overcharge to get into a venue to further pay our hard earned money to be treated like that!

There are enough places to go to. Wages and nights out have both reduced so I'll be damned if I'm going to go to a place where I'd be spoken to like that. I never queue and I never give the doormen the time of day and I've never had any problems whatsoever. They should be flippin glad of my business! If I was ever stopped or there was ever a problem, I would just turn on my heal and go elsewhere.

beer enigma

Dicky Pride wrote: »

You sounded like a bit of a muppet yourself tbh. An aggressive one at that.

Please remember boards rules, feel free to comment on the post, but you can't comment on the poster unless they are specifically requestiing feedback on their own actions which in this case they are clearly not.

Thanks

Faith

Lucyn wrote: »

I don't understand how they get away with this type of carry on. They make people queue up in freezing weather, treat them like cattle, then overcharge to get into a venue to further pay our hard earned money to be treated like that!

They get away with it because people are willing to put up with it. Like you, I'd never queue to get into a place or pay entry, unless it was for a very special event. There are PLENTY of alternatives. I go to a pub within the city limits where they go above and beyond to please their customers, where I've only ever seen a bouncer once or twice and I've never seen any trouble there, where all the bar staff know my name and treat me like a friend, and the prices are reasonable. There's more than one place like that, too.

Harry Angstrom

I don't know what it is about bouncers in Cork but so many of them are pig-ignorant, it's a joke. There's never any point in trying to reason with them because they accuse you of giving them 'backchat'. They'll never apologise if they've made an error because they don't want to lose face.

Best example of bouncer stupidity I've ever come across was when 4 of us were out one night. 3 of us were very well on, the other was a non-drinker. We went to a nightclub. The 3 of us who were drunk were let in no bother, the non-drinker was stopped because, according to the bouncer, "he was too drunk". :rolleyes:

gimmick

There are plenty places in town where the door staff are sound. A simple hello at the door goes a long way instead of a horrendous glare. I find The Oak to be good this way, ditto Sober lane, Electric, Roundy. Other places, you would actually almost feel apologetic for daring go near their precious door.

kub

gimmick wrote: »

Was in a certain pub in town on the Saturday night of the Jazz weekend last week. It was pretty full as they had 2 very good acts playing. Great atmosphere all round as the severely over priced drinks were flowing. We were at a table with 2 other groups, about maybe 10-12 people in total.

Along comes Mr Security "If I see any of you swinging that again, you will all be FUCKED out the door" he shouted. I looked up at him and said "excuse me, I wasn't swinging that so you are throwing me nowhere if it is swung again", at which point he told me he tells me that if I speak to him like that again, I am out.
That is just one fella. My buddy was coming in later and after he paid he asked a security where the stairs where. The bouncer told him to get back in the queue and pay and stop trying to skip the queue. Once my buddy had it confirmed he had paid by the girl taking the cash, the bouncer just pointed at the stairs no apology.

I emailed the pub and posted on their facebook page about it, but surprise surprise, no response.

I will not be darkening the places doorstep again.

Basically these gentlemen and I use that term lightly, are not paid for their brains. The good news here is, that chap is licensed by The Private Security Authority, a division of The Dept Of Justice. He has to at all times carry around an identity badge with his specific number on it.

If you feel that strongly about it then I suggest that you pay a visit back to that bar and demand to see that guys ID, get the number from it and complain him to The PSA. Its this type of person that they want out of that industry......its just a pity the bar don't appear to care.

http://www.psa.gov.ie/

Hogzy

Andip wrote: »

Please remember boards rules, feel free to comment on the post, but you can't comment on the poster unless they are specifically requestiing feedback on their own actions which in this case they are clearly not.

Thanks

OP is looking for feedback on the bouncers actions. The only was to justify whether the bouncer was right or wrong is to consider the OP's behaviour. So why cant we comment on it?

IMO, Both parties are to blame. Bouncer sounded like a muppet but swinging a light in a pub? Sounds quite childish tbh and justifies a stern telling off.

Faith wrote: »

They get away with it because people are willing to put up with it. Like you, I'd never queue to get into a place or pay entry, unless it was for a very special event. There are PLENTY of alternatives. I go to a pub within the city limits where they go above and beyond to please their customers, where I've only ever seen a bouncer once or twice and I've never seen any trouble there, where all the bar staff know my name and treat me like a friend, and the prices are reasonable. There's more than one place like that, too.

Why dont you tell us where?

royston1

I passed the Old Oak on Saturday night & saw one of their security (an extremley large man)push a guy very aggresively & cowardly in the back,the guy stumbled for seven or eight feet before falling to the wet floor,he picked himself up & squared up to the bouncer/security man before been pulled away by a friend.It looked appawling,the guy appeared to be pushed to the floor for no reason,unless he acted the maggot inside the pub & even if he did he should not of been treated in this way,bouncers/security men on doors of pubs/clubs in Cork have always been Aholes going back as far as I can remember.

the beer revolu

Hogzy wrote: »

IMO, Both parties are to blame. Bouncer sounded like a muppet but swinging a light in a pub? Sounds quite childish tbh and justifies a stern telling off.

The OP's point was that it was nothing to do with him or anybody in his group.

royston1 wrote: »

bouncers/security men on doors of pubs/clubs in Cork have always been Aholes going back as far as I can remember.

They sure have been and video tapes of punters being beaten to death have been known to disappear.
To be fair, the industry has cleaned up a lot since those dark days but there are still plenty of knob heads out there.
The thing that wrecks my head is when you purchase your last drink only to spend twenty minutes being shouted at and told to move to different parts of the bar by a bouncer despite the fact that there is still 20 odd minutes drinking up time left. I have no problem being hassled and harranged if I am on the premises even one minute after closing time but before that, please leave me alone!

Supraman

Interesting thread considering I only put one up a few Weeks ago . the situation I had is now resolved after speaking with bowery management today .

@ the op : id advise getting the psa number of relevant doorman and reporting it to the psa , I did and dealt with a lady in there who forwarded our concerns with the bowery . It is true though some of the bouncers in cork need to be taken down a peg or 2 . Id love to know where exactly this happened .

minidazzler

Saying you weren't going anywhere before establishing that she was not a member of your group was a bad move on your part. Of course a group seated at a single table or in a particular area is gonna be presumed to be together.

That said, he sounds like he was being a dick. What time was it at? A lot of bouncers are a lot more pleasant early in the evening but as the money is spent they don't need to keep ye in.

gimmick

It was about 11ish I guess.

I over reacted, I have already acknowledged this. My main issue was his absolute aggression rather than grouping us all together. "Do that again and you are all getting fúcked out" is not an acceptable way to go into a situation. Nothing will make me change my mind on this.

That is even ignoring the second part of my post with the dick at the door who was as ignorant as could be to my buddy who had just paid his money.

With regard to the PSA. I didn't get or see a number mostly because I didn't realise these fellas were registered so thats a moot point at this stage.

Spindle

gimmick wrote: »

It was about 11ish I guess.

I over reacted, I have already acknowledged this. My main issue was his absolute aggression rather than grouping us all together. "Do that again and you are all getting fúcked out" is not an acceptable way to go into a situation. Nothing will make me change my mind on this.

That is even ignoring the second part of my post with the dick at the door who was as ignorant as could be to my buddy who had just paid his money.

With regard to the PSA. I didn't get or see a number mostly because I didn't realise these fellas were registered so thats a moot point at this stage.

To be fair it was not that bad, he just judged you were all together. If it came to throwing you out, then I doubt the whole lot of you would be thrown out and if that did come to pass, that was the time to stand up to him.

With regards aggression, if you have to deal with a drunk person that was swinging on a lamp, it is safe the say they may not listen to something along the lines of "Excuse me could you please stop that or I will have to remove you and your friends". Maybe it might have been a tad bit aggressive, but did the girl swing from the lamp again?? If she didn't that would be a result in my book, and nobody would have been thrown out. I am sure she doesn't even remember the incident.

It sounds like they have fairly badly organised door in there anyway, from your friends story. If they can't even track who is in the queue. t.

There are issues in Cork with certain pubs/clubs, but they are well know cattle marts that attract a certain type of person, don't go there and you will usually be fine.

gimmick

Ya, I usually only go to this place on the Jazz weekend as they have an excellent line up tbf.

patdshaker

the beer revolu wrote: »

The thing that wrecks my head is when you purchase your last drink only to spend twenty minutes being shouted at and told to move to different parts of the bar by a bouncer despite the fact that there is still 20 odd minutes drinking up time left. I have no problem being hassled and harranged if I am on the premises even one minute after closing time but before that, please leave me alone!

The thing about it is the Guards are fairly strict in the city about this kind of thing and thats the last thing you want them to be getting stuck in you over, as someone with experience in the bar trade when you are trying to clear out a gang after drink the easiest way to do it is to push them out as fast as possible out of the premises (especially 18th's) so the guards if they come can see that you are in fact trying to get everyone out. Although to be honest I work in a place where we are relaxed about the whole thing and by the time we are pushing the punters out we have already used up the half hour drinking up time.

P.S The pub is supposed to be clear of punters by the end of the half hour drinking up time, so in your case 20 minutes to clear 200 people out the door ain't a lot taking into account that everyone will want to wait until the last 5 minutes before thinking of leaving and then the crowd who will have to piss or find jackets/friends etc..

Merch

royston1 wrote: »

I passed the Old Oak on Saturday night & saw one of their security (an extremley large man)push a guy very aggresively & cowardly in the back,the guy stumbled for seven or eight feet before falling to the wet floor,he picked himself up & squared up to the bouncer/security man before been pulled away by a friend.It looked appawling,the guy appeared to be pushed to the floor for no reason,unless he acted the maggot inside the pub & even if he did he should not of been treated in this way,bouncers/security men on doors of pubs/clubs in Cork have always been Aholes going back as far as I can remember.

After I read your post I skipped right to the end to reply, seeing no reply from you inbetween or a reference to it.

Dont you think the right thing to do would be approach the victim, tell them you witnessed it and I assume you are independent of the victim enable that person to do something about it.
I think if they made a complaint, they wont have a leg to stand on without an independant witness.

royston1

Merch,your probably right..I thought about it,but didnt want to get involved,I was actually working at the time.
I dont know if city center is getting worse or I am getting older.

gimmick

TBH, I have always found the Oak security to be gents. I have seen them throw people out but they have only reacted when completely provoked. The fact yopu say that the guy squared up to the guy who threw him out suggests to me he acted the dick inside the pub.

Merch

gimmick wrote: »

TBH, I have always found the Oak security to be gents. I have seen them throw people out but they have only reacted when completely provoked. The fact yopu say that the guy squared up to the guy who threw him out suggests to me he acted the dick inside the pub.

So you think thats justification for assault? shoving someone in the back? maybe he stood up and said, look Im not having that, take your bad manners and stick them? we dont know. The attitude, described by the OP of the security seems to have a lot more to do with trouble, plus if people are too well on, then the bar should stop serving them, but then thats good reason to peg them out, to replace them with paying customers.
A pox on them, I hope all their customers are students from the continent siting around a guide book and 1 beer for the whole night.

Security should not approach people aggressively, they should know how to defuse situations, while having drink taken is no excuse, security should be (as most are) aware that drink can reduce peoples inhibitions. Making a fool of people in front of their friends or partner is not going to help nor is accusing an innocent paerson, shoving them when they aren't looking is not going to help either.

I think the overly professional and polite approach works, no one can have any complaint with that.

gimmick

Ya, I don't know obviously. But squaring up is always a pretty silly thing to do especially to a group of bouncers. I said I think The Oak fellas are ok, I have never seen an issue with them, but a fella squaring up will cause issues, no matter where you are.

That said, I never, ever, agree with bully boy aggression from door staff etc.

Merch

gimmick wrote: »

Ya, I don't know obviously. But squaring up is always a pretty silly thing to do especially to a group of bouncers. I said I think The Oak fellas are ok, I have never seen an issue with them, but a fella squaring up will cause issues, no matter where you are.

That said, I never, ever, agree with bully boy aggression from door staff etc.

I think there is a difference between squaring off and standing up and asserting your innocence/ask for an apology.
But security staff should be trained to handle/defuse these situations, there is no face to lose by security if they are polite, if they are wrong then it is easier to back away from that and apologise without losing face,and everyone is happy.
If someone is acting the tool, then they can still be asked to leave and it is still possible to get someone to leave under their own steam, unless they cannot walk, in which case they still shouldnt be dumped on the kerb.