Which is the best league and why?

leonard7

So as i sat down to watch Northampton versus Saints yesterday i was optimistic that i was in for a treat... what ensued was one of the more boring games i have watched in a long time.

This match also started an argument between some friends over which is the best league. The english man said the aviva, the welsh and myself said the rabo, another said the french top 14 and we all agreed that its too hard to wake up in the morning for super 15 matches.

Each league has their merits and de-merits


Rabo Direct pro 12 - I have to say this season has had some fantastically entertaining matches and every weekend there is a always a 'big' match to look forward to. With teams like Leinster, Ulster, Scarlets and the Ospreys all playing some nice rugby. The downside would have to be the argument brought forward by the english and french which is that there is no relegation and therefore teams at the bottom have nothing really to fight for e.g. the dragons the only team in the rabo no represented in the heineken cup.



The Aviva Premiership - good points would be the teams are fighting for something so there is more on the line, however, matches then become more about winning and less about performance (saracens). I heard the players referred to as big guys running straight and it says a lot about the league. only a few teams really trying to play rugby.


Top 14 - they have the stars and are playing some very entertaining rugby. a criticism would be away performances and the fact that there are some very very weak teams in the league. I think they have 2 or 3 of the best teams in europe though in Toulon, Clermont and Toulouse and the attacking flair they show is quite sublime.


Super 15 - very attack orientated league cant say the same for the defence though! Often very entertaining matches and very high scoring like i said its on too early for me or at least it used to be so i would only catch the odd match but the highlights are something else to watch.

So fellow boardsies i put it to you...which is the best league and why?

shuffol

leonard7 wrote: »

So as i sat down to watch Northampton versus Saints yesterday i was optimistic that i was in for a treat... what ensued was one of the more boring games i have watched in a long time.

This match also started an argument between some friends over which is the best league. The english man said the aviva, the welsh and myself said the rabo, another said the french top 14 and we all agreed that its too hard to wake up in the morning for super 15 matches.

Each league has their merits and de-merits


Rabo Direct pro 12 - I have to say this season has had some fantastically entertaining matches and every weekend there is a always a 'big' match to look forward to. With teams like Leinster, Ulster, Scarlets and the Ospreys all playing some nice rugby. The downside would have to be the argument brought forward by the english and french which is that there is no relegation and therefore teams at the bottom have nothing really to fight for e.g. the dragons the only team in the rabo no represented in the heineken cup.



The Aviva Premiership - good points would be the teams are fighting for something so there is more on the line, however, matches then become more about winning and less about performance (saracens). I heard the players referred to as big guys running straight and it says a lot about the league. only a few teams really trying to play rugby.


Top 14 - they have the stars and are playing some very entertaining rugby. a criticism would be away performances and the fact that there are some very very weak teams in the league. I think they have 2 or 3 of the best teams in europe though in Toulon, Clermont and Toulouse and the attacking flair they show is quite sublime.


Super 15 - very attack orientated league cant say the same for the defence though! Often very entertaining matches and very high scoring like i said its on too early for me or at least it used to be so i would only catch the odd match but the highlights are something else to watch.

So fellow boardsies i put it to you...which is the best league and why?

Takes 2 teams to make a match interesting:D

danthefan

SuperXV generally has the best players playing in it.

Obviously the Rabo is the league I have the most interest in so I'm fairly biased in that direction.

All the leagues have their fair share of dross and have their fair share of quality games too.

lologram

I don't think it's possible to answer this question in a satisfactory way. It's a grand topic for discussion but there can't be a definitive conclusion. They all have their ups and downs

Fight_Night

I prefer the Top 14 to watch because the atmosphere always seems to be that bit better and the overall standard tends to be higher I find.

Super XV is also entertaining but just feel it's missing something.

Rabo is good because Leinster are in it but realistically it's not particularly competitive.

Aviva is average.

danthefan

The Aviva can throw up some absolutely brilliant games, but then you get the likes of Saracens v Leicester about a month or so ago which should have been a sort of flagship game for the league but was just absolutely dreadful. One of the worst games I've seen being honest. Quins and Gloucester both play some good rugby.

matthew8

If I was to watch a random game between 2 teams I'm not interested in:
1. Super 15 - May be crap sometimes, but at least you typically get some flashy stuff, and there are some top quality teams.
2. Aviva Prem - General good quality.
3. Top 14 - Very negative a lot of the time.
4. Rabo - Anything without Leinster or Ulster is very hard to watch.

thomond2006

Watching highlights of the Top14 every sunday morning throws up some great moments every weekend. It's as big/bigger as the Heineken Cup for the french teams which means the intensity is always there.

danthefan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Watching highlights of the Top14 every sunday morning throws up some great moments every weekend. It's as big/bigger as the Heineken Cup for the french teams which means the intensity is always there.

What channel is that on?

leftleg

danthefan wrote: »

What channel is that on?

espn afair

thomond2006

danthefan wrote: »

What channel is that on?

TV5 monde, Sky Channel 799, 11am with the beautiful Isabelle Ithurburu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46VoUVYYqjo

irishbucsfan

There are good and bad games in every league. Last weekend the Premiership was the best by a mile to watch while the Rabo was awful. This weekend the Premiership wasn't so great (Quins Gloucester was decent). Top 14 can be very hard to watch at times and enthralling at others.

Super rugby has some of the best rugby as well as a lot of the worst, it's the most inconsistent. I would say the standard at the top is the highest of all the leagues though.

It really depends what you mean by "best." The Top 14 probably has the best teams but its not the best to watch. In terms of enjoyment for the neutral I'd put Super XV on top followed by the Aviva, then the Top 14 then the Rabo. But I'd watch a Rabo game before any of them because that's where Leinster are.

KJY

I have to say I despise watching the Super 15, a good try in my opinion is building phases and breaking down defences, not free running from 80 yards.

leonard7

when best i meant a a combination of atmosphere, rugby quality, team competitiveness but probably most importantly the rugby quality like skill levels etc

irishbucsfan

leonard7 wrote: »

when best i meant a a combination of atmosphere, rugby quality, team competitiveness but probably most importantly the rugby quality like skill levels etc

Well then I'd have the Premiership and Top 14 both ahead of Super Rugby until they get a bit more parity between the sides.

4PP

thomond2006 wrote: »

TV5 monde, Sky Channel 799, 11am with the beautiful Isabelle Ithurburu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46VoUVYYqjo

If you like ironing boards she's your girl Mind you compared to what passes for a "luuvely girl" in Ireland, from Miriam O To Mairead F, I can see why Isabelle would float your boat

I suppose we're just spoiled over here on the continent :rolleyes:

Swiwi

Depends what you mean by best. For pure unadulterated rugby played for the sheer joy of the game, the ITM cup is very enjoyable (it would be the equivalent of a county rugby competition in Ireland, which as far as I am aware doesn't exist), and every year it throws up the next Christian Cullen, Jonah Lomu, Michael Bent.

For atmosphere, fanatical but sporting supporters, and a good knockout competition, I like the Heineken Cup.

For the best attack-minded rugby, Super 15 is great.

Personally, I hate the way it's always portrayed as North v South, and both sides of the equator are guilty of looking down their noses at the other.

Rugby is my game, and I will follow quality wherever it is to be found.

Swiwi

4PP wrote: »

If you like ironing boards she's your girl Mind you compared to what passes for a "luuvely girl" in Ireland, from Miriam O To Mairead F, I can see why Isabelle would float your boat

I suppose we're just spoiled over here on the continent :rolleyes:

Et oui, elle est bien jolie. Il y a aussi "Stade 2" sur France 2 le dimanche après-midi, si je me souviens bien...

chippers

Top 14 for me. Some of the big games are great to watch.

The Irish teams in the Rabo this weekend were all involved in poor games from a viewers perspective.

Beery Eyed

Swiwi wrote: »

Depends what you mean by best. For pure unadulterated rugby played for the sheer joy of the game, the ITM cup is very enjoyable (it would be the equivalent of a county rugby competition in Ireland, which as far as I am aware doesn't exist), and every year it throws up the next Christian Cullen, Jonah Lomu, Michael Bent.

I'd agree. ITM is a great competition and for me it's the reason NZ continue to produce so much depth of talent (similarly SA with the Currie Cup).

I would love if Ireland had a similar competition for counties/regions below the provincial game, which could include the top AIL players and the fringe/academy provincial players to help bridge the gap between AIL & Pro rugby.

The platform that the ITM gives for young, talented players to play in a high level competition and stake a claim to play at a higher level really is the perfect setup.

Swiwi

Beery Eyed wrote: »

I'd agree. ITM is a great competition and for me it's the reason NZ continue to produce so much depth of talent (similarly SA with the Currie Cup).

I would love if Ireland had a similar competition for counties/regions below the provincial game, which could include the top AIL players and the fringe/academy provincial players to help bridge the gap between AIL & Pro rugby.

The platform that the ITM gives for young, talented players to play in a high level competition and stake a claim to play at a higher level really is the perfect setup.

Players are basically given a licence to thrill. There are tries-a-plenty, and you wouldn't show the videoclips to young players for how to tackle. But the naturally talented players shine, they get selected for S15, their skills like positional sense, "game managment" etc are refined, and a couple of years later they're AB stars.

How many counties would genuinely play rugby in Ireland? To misquote Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh, (I imagine) some counties would not be known as rugby strongholds?

Swiwi

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There are good and bad games in every league. Last weekend the Premiership was the best by a mile to watch while the Rabo was awful. This weekend the Premiership wasn't so great (Quins Gloucester was decent). Top 14 can be very hard to watch at times and enthralling at others.

Super rugby has some of the best rugby as well as a lot of the worst, it's the most inconsistent. I would say the standard at the top is the highest of all the leagues though.

It really depends what you mean by "best." The Top 14 probably has the best teams but its not the best to watch. In terms of enjoyment for the neutral I'd put Super XV on top followed by the Aviva, then the Top 14 then the Rabo. But I'd watch a Rabo game before any of them because that's where Leinster are.

Unnecessary Australian expansion, and SA politics have watered down the competition somewhat. Only NZ at present has 5 decent enough sides (the Blues 2012 not withstanding). Australia should go back to 3 teams, or (as I would prefer) bolster the Rebels & Force with classy Argentinian players. But you are correct that the top 6 to 8 sides in the S15 tend to produce consistently pretty decent rugby.

Beery Eyed

Swiwi wrote: »

How many counties would genuinely play rugby in Ireland? To misquote Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh, (I imagine) some counties would not be known as rugby strongholds?

Yes, true. That's one of the arguments which is generally cited against having a straightforward counties competition. Although I'd be fairly confident that a final between any one of Dublin/Cork/Limerick would be a fairly attractive game for anyone involved with rugby in those counties! Personally, I would be interested in seeing it anyway.

A division system with relegation/promotion would allow all counties to play at a suitable level and give them all an equal opportunity to field developmental teams. A top tier division of Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Derry, Antrim, Galway would produce some good quality games and give a great opportunity for fringe/academy players at each province to show what they can do.

Then again though, there's nothing to say that we would have to tie ourselves into just playing a straightforward inter-county competition. The counties mentioned above could field strong sides and could stand alone as they are, whereas other regions could be formed (Midlands, Northwest, Southeast) away from just the traditional county borders.

A lesser appreciated aspect of having competitions that are as strong as the ITM and the Currie Cup below the top level professional game, is that aside from just player development it also affords the opportunity for coaches to make a step up from the club game and gain the opportunity to make a name for themselves. The same goes for developing referees which, as anybody who has been involved with the organisational side of the game knows, is absolutely crucial.

Klunk_NZ

The super 15 pulls from the 3 best teams in the world and is without a real doubt the best standard of rugby below international rugby. Excluding the newish Aussie teams. But I much prefer to watch ITM cup. The format is shorter sharper and new talent is a plenty. I just hope those politics in the Heineken Cup get sorted.

buck65

I voted for the Rabo as Munster play there and when any of the Irish provinces plus the Welsh are involved there is usually decent fare.
Saying that Treviso at home is usually worth watching but the Scottish and Zebre/Aironi atmosphere wise are pants.
I think that the HCup does need to make it 6 or 7 teams only from the Rabo to keep it interesting though.
French has the best quality players but the wages paid are ridiculous.

Fight_Night

The county championship would be brilliant, and a great way of uncovering any talent that may have slipped through the ranks.

errlloyd

I wish I had time to watch more foreign rugby, but I must say I don't think any sporting event of any sort takes more of my attention then the Heineken cup.

I'll sit down on the Thursday, watch the Amlin game, and then the whole weekend for all the Hcup action. Every game seems to be wonderful, I particularly love the clashing styles. English Bosh, French beauty and Celtic bloody mayhem.

Digifriendly

Question of no relegation in Rabo is fair point as Zebre almost certainly wouldn't be playing in Aviva or Top 14 after one season as they would be relegated. Problem is there is no league beneath the Rabo to be relegated to and Rabo is a 'closed shop' as it were. Also with a team finishing 11th or 12th still being able to get into the HC the present situation does not promote high enough standards in that league. Having said that some of the matches in the Rabo are highly entertaining and some of the fare on offer in the Aviva is pretty stale. I can't really comment on the Top14 as I see very little of it apart from some clips on the internet.

buck65

Digifriendly wrote: »

Question of no relegation in Rabo is fair point as Zebre almost certainly wouldn't be playing in Aviva or Top 14 after one season as they would be relegated. Problem is there is no league beneath the Rabo to be relegated to and Rabo is a 'closed shop' as it were. Also with a team finishing 11th or 12th still being able to get into the HC the present situation does not promote high enough standards in that league. Having said that some of the matches in the Rabo are highly entertaining and some of the fare on offer in the Aviva is pretty stale. I can't really comment on the Top14 as I see very little of it apart from some clips on the internet.

Yeah this surely has to change. Something like the Top 8 at least guarantees 3 countries of the 4 will be represented. If Zebre, Treviso or Dragons aren't up to it then they should be in the Amlin.
If a HCup winner comes from the Rabo then the No. 9 gets in.
Looking at last years table Connacht came 8th so would have made it, interestingly Edinburgh wouldn't be in this year - maybe they would have been better off!! (Treviso, Dragons and Aironi footed the league as well).