No idea what to do

Lunni

Typical problem at the moment but I hope someone can give me some advice. Apologies in advance for the length.

I'm 27 and left college with a good degree in modern languages back in 2007. Leaving school, I really had no idea what I wanted to do and was advised to do languages as they 'make you employable' and I've always been naturally good at them. My dad advised me to do business with languages but at the time I just had absolutely no interest in business and decided to go for just the languages. Probably a mistake in hindsight but 17 is very, very young to make these decisions! I did well at college and decided to do a one-year business course afterwards, as by this time I'd decided that it would make me more employable and I'd warmed to the idea a bit more. I applied and was accepted onto several courses, but I just didn't have the money to pay the fees and living costs. My parents refused to help me and I wasn't eligible for any loans or grants (I had already taken out a student loan to pay for the BA), so I had to leave it.

I ended up working in a series of dead-end, low-paid jobs in Dublin while I tried to figure out what to do. One of my old lecturers advised me to study translation. I was a bit wary as I didn't think it was easy to get into and get regular, paid work but she told me I'd be very good at it and I should just go for it. I found out about a scholarship that was being offered for a translation course in London and applied for it. I couldn't believe it when I got it - they chose me out of almost 100 candidates. I went to London and did the course, really enjoyed it, got a distinction in it and had high hopes for the future. Things got even better when I was accepted for a translation internship at the European Commission, a place I've always dreamed of working. People told me how amazing that would be for my CV and how I'd make all these contacts in Brussels and get an amazing job. Well......it just didn't happen. I enjoyed the internship, but it wasn't challenging, I ended up working with other interns in an office and I found out that there was no way to get a permanent job there without passing one of their 'competitions'. These only happen every few years and I wasn't successful the last time I tried. My language skills were fine but I did badly in the maths test they make you do. I'm shocking at maths. I applied to hundreds of translation agencies and for in-house jobs and barely got any replies. I was basically told 'you have no experience' and nobody was willing to let me get started. It was a really depressing vicious circle.

Eventually, I decided I just needed to get a job, any job, to pay the rent. I was living on plain pasta and bread at this stage. When I got back to Dublin, I did a TEFL course, thinking that there would always be work teaching English and that at least I'd have the opportunity to travel. Well, that was accurate, anyway. The work is always there and that's why I'm still a TEFL teacher, over 3 years later. It's a grand job, far from the worst thing you could be doing, but I'm starting to panic. The longer you spend in TEFL, the harder it is to get out. It just isn't a job for life. The money is bad, there's no paid holidays/sick pay, I don't get paid if I don't teach, including when classes get cancelled or not enough students sign up. There's very little chance of career progression - the only thing you can really do is become a Director of Studies and that's also badly paid and quite stressful. I've tried getting into Materials Development and the TEFL coursebook side of things, but there's just way too much competition. Aside from that, I'm stuck abroad and I really just want to go home, or at least to the UK, and get a 'proper job' with a salary and a pension. Actually, I wouldn't even mind being anywhere in Europe as long as I had a job with rights and benefits.

So...I just have no idea what to do now. As my parents say, I think I need to choose a direction and go for it but I also need to be realistic. I plan to keep applying for EU jobs, but they are few and far between so there's no way I can pin all my hopes on those. Even if I do pass the competition, the reserve list for translation jobs can mean waiting several years to be offered a post and some people never get offered one! I'm really interested in doing a job where I can actually USE my languages rather than just translate - I had a job I liked after college doing that but it was call centre work and the pay was abysmal.

I've been considering doing a business course and then seeing if I can get some sort of business or marketing role where my languages are a secondary asset but I don't even know if I'm able for the course/a career in business. I've managed to save a few grand over the past two years and my dad has agreed to pay the rest of the fees but I'd have to keep teaching to cover my living costs for the year...doable but stressful. I suffer from several health conditions which mean I get tired and sick very easily, so that's always a consideration when deciding what to do.

My head is just all over the place. Do I keep teaching? Try going into business? Keep applying for in-house translation work? I'm just starting to panic...I'm getting too old for casual and intern type jobs...I just want some job security, fairly decent pay and to be able to rent/buy a house with my partner and have kids, not have to live in flatshares for the rest of my life!

allibastor

Lunni wrote: »

Typical problem at the moment but I hope someone can give me some advice. Apologies in advance for the length.

I'm 27 and left college with a good degree in modern languages back in 2007. Leaving school, I really had no idea what I wanted to do and was advised to do languages as they 'make you employable' and I've always been naturally good at them. My dad advised me to do business with languages but at the time I just had absolutely no interest in business and decided to go for just the languages. Probably a mistake in hindsight but 17 is very, very young to make these decisions! I did well at college and decided to do a one-year business course afterwards, as by this time I'd decided that it would make me more employable and I'd warmed to the idea a bit more. I applied and was accepted onto several courses, but I just didn't have the money to pay the fees and living costs. My parents refused to help me and I wasn't eligible for any loans or grants (I had already taken out a student loan to pay for the BA), so I had to leave it.

I ended up working in a series of dead-end, low-paid jobs in Dublin while I tried to figure out what to do. One of my old lecturers advised me to study translation. I was a bit wary as I didn't think it was easy to get into and get regular, paid work but she told me I'd be very good at it and I should just go for it. I found out about a scholarship that was being offered for a translation course in London and applied for it. I couldn't believe it when I got it - they chose me out of almost 100 candidates. I went to London and did the course, really enjoyed it, got a distinction in it and had high hopes for the future. Things got even better when I was accepted for a translation internship at the European Commission, a place I've always dreamed of working. People told me how amazing that would be for my CV and how I'd make all these contacts in Brussels and get an amazing job. Well......it just didn't happen. I enjoyed the internship, but it wasn't challenging, I ended up working with other interns in an office and I found out that there was no way to get a permanent job there without passing one of their 'competitions'. These only happen every few years and I wasn't successful the last time I tried. My language skills were fine but I did badly in the maths test they make you do. I'm shocking at maths. I applied to hundreds of translation agencies and for in-house jobs and barely got any replies. I was basically told 'you have no experience' and nobody was willing to let me get started. It was a really depressing vicious circle.

Eventually, I decided I just needed to get a job, any job, to pay the rent. I was living on plain pasta and bread at this stage. When I got back to Dublin, I did a TEFL course, thinking that there would always be work teaching English and that at least I'd have the opportunity to travel. Well, that was accurate, anyway. The work is always there and that's why I'm still a TEFL teacher, over 3 years later. It's a grand job, far from the worst thing you could be doing, but I'm starting to panic. The longer you spend in TEFL, the harder it is to get out. It just isn't a job for life. The money is bad, there's no paid holidays/sick pay, I don't get paid if I don't teach, including when classes get cancelled or not enough students sign up. There's very little chance of career progression - the only thing you can really do is become a Director of Studies and that's also badly paid and quite stressful. I've tried getting into Materials Development and the TEFL coursebook side of things, but there's just way too much competition. Aside from that, I'm stuck abroad and I really just want to go home, or at least to the UK, and get a 'proper job' with a salary and a pension. Actually, I wouldn't even mind being anywhere in Europe as long as I had a job with rights and benefits.

So...I just have no idea what to do now. As my parents say, I think I need to choose a direction and go for it but I also need to be realistic. I plan to keep applying for EU jobs, but they are few and far between so there's no way I can pin all my hopes on those. Even if I do pass the competition, the reserve list for translation jobs can mean waiting several years to be offered a post and some people never get offered one! I'm really interested in doing a job where I can actually USE my languages rather than just translate - I had a job I liked after college doing that but it was call centre work and the pay was abysmal.

I've been considering doing a business course and then seeing if I can get some sort of business or marketing role where my languages are a secondary asset but I don't even know if I'm able for the course/a career in business. I've managed to save a few grand over the past two years and my dad has agreed to pay the rest of the fees but I'd have to keep teaching to cover my living costs for the year...doable but stressful. I suffer from several health conditions which mean I get tired and sick very easily, so that's always a consideration when deciding what to do.

My head is just all over the place. Do I keep teaching? Try going into business? Keep applying for in-house translation work? I'm just starting to panic...I'm getting too old for casual and intern type jobs...I just want some job security, fairly decent pay and to be able to rent/buy a house with my partner and have kids, not have to live in flatshares for the rest of my life!

If you are good any many languages and business head to google, they look for that kind of people once you have an interest in technology also.

Mr. Loverman

TEFL is well paid in Asia. Would you consider emigrating?

I'm really interested in doing a job where I can actually USE my languages rather than just translate - I had a job I liked after college doing that but it was call centre work and the pay was abysmal.

In a call centre you won't be the grunt on the phone forever. You can get promoted to management where the pay is better. Also, it sounds like you are jumping between entry level job to entry level job. You need to stay in a job for a while to get more senior and start earning better money.

Please don't give in to artificial pressures and take a better-paid job you dislike.

Lunni

Thanks for the advice everyone.

allibastor wrote: »

If you are good any many languages and business head to google, they look for that kind of people once you have an interest in technology also.

I've tried, but their recruitment process is insane. The issue is that because my maths is so weak, I find any kind of aptitude test close to impossible. I've applied for loads of grad schemes and positions for linguists and not got in because of my maths, even though I'd never need to use maths for the job! I consider myself intelligent and plenty of people have told me I am, but I just can't seem to pass that type of test. I'll still keep trying, though! It's just hard to do all these application processes when I already have a full time job. I reckon I'd be more successful if I moved back in with my parents and just job hunted, but that's also quite a risk. Especially because they live in the middle of nowhere.

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

TEFL is well paid in Asia. Would you consider emigrating?

I've already worked in Asia. The problem is, there's just no future there. You never fit in and are never treated like you belong. It's grand for a year or two in your twenties, but I'd hate to live in China or Korea forever. I know people who are trapped there because the money is good but a lot of them are miserable and stuck in a cycle of getting up late, working until 10pm and getting drunk every night.

In a call centre you won't be the grunt on the phone forever. You can get promoted to management where the pay is better. Also, it sounds like you are jumping between entry level job to entry level job. You need to stay in a job for a while to get more senior and start earning better money.

Please don't give in to artificial pressures and take a better-paid job you dislike.

There was no opportunity to progress where I was, the money was still bad for the supervisors and the place has actually closed down now and they were all made redundant. I wouldn't mind at all starting 'at the bottom' but only if there's a clear and achievable way to move up within a few years. My sister is a trainee accountant and that's how it is for her. Unfortunately, I just don't think I could hack accountancy but something along those lines would be great.

flo_indublin

Hi Lunni,

have you tried the localisation industry? You could apply for a junior PM or localisation coordinator position, there are still quite a few language service providers in Ireland, (Dublin and Galway) as well as companies like Amazon in Cork who are always looking for people. The University of Limerick offers specialization courses in localisation. As a career direction, with your background you could also consider getting into technical writing.
Best of luck!

Mr. Loverman

Lunni wrote: »

The problem is, there's just no future there. You never fit in and are never treated like you belong. It's grand for a year or two in your twenties, but I'd hate to live in China or Korea forever. I know people who are trapped there because the money is good but a lot of them are miserable and stuck in a cycle of getting up late, working until 10pm and getting drunk every night.

In fairness, Asia is what you make of it. I know people who opened schools here and are now rich.

Getting drunk every night and being the stereotypical expat is a choice!

Could you emigrate to one of the countries whose language you speak?

Honestly it sounds like you are in a rut and are a bit depressed (half glass empty attitude).

Lunni

flo_indublin wrote: »

Hi Lunni,

have you tried the localisation industry? You could apply for a junior PM or localisation coordinator position, there are still quite a few language service providers in Ireland, (Dublin and Galway) as well as companies like Amazon in Cork who are always looking for people. The University of Limerick offers specialization courses in localisation. As a career direction, with your background you could also consider getting into technical writing.
Best of luck!

I was looking into it a while back, but every position seemed to be for native speakers of other languages and/or translating OUT of English. It's always been the case in Dublin that there's a lot of translation and localization work, but not a lot of it is into English. The jobs for English speakers were very technical and I really wasn't qualified to do them. I will definitely look into it, though!

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

In fairness, Asia is what you make of it. I know people who opened schools here and are now rich.

Getting drunk every night and being the stereotypical expat is a choice!

Could you emigrate to one of the countries whose language you speak?

Honestly it sounds like you are in a rut and are a bit depressed (half glass empty attitude).

Yes, but I really, really don't want to live in Asia for the rest of my life. My issue is that I'll never, ever fit in and be treated the same. Moreover, my partner, who I met in Asia (he's also Irish), has no interest in going back either. I just don't see the point in going somewhere I know I definitely won't want to stay. It also did my head in not being able to understand anything and no matter how hard you work at learning one of the Asian languages (Korean, in my case), there's no way you're ever going to speak it well. I absolutely love Korea and Japan, but not for settling down and having kids.

I've already 'emigrated', I'm abroad right now and have been for over 3 years. At the moment I'm in Spain, where there's plenty of TEFL but nothing of anything else. I figured I might as well get my languages as good as they can be, so that's what I'm working on. I'm working in the afternoons and evenings and taking Spanish classes in the mornings. I would be open to staying abroad, but in a secure, better-paid job. I love it here in Spain but the economy is really dire and I don't think staying in the long term would be an option unless I had location-independent work (internet work or whatever). I think I'd prefer to end up the UK or Ireland, but I wouldn't mind emigrating to another European country if I had a good opportunity there. I'm looking for jobs all over Europe.

I am stuck in a rut but not sitting at home on the dole. I've emigrated, I've applied for countless positions and I look for jobs every day. It's just depressing never to have any success, as I'm sure a lot of people in Ireland know. That's why I'm wondering if I should just do a business or marketing course to actually have something to back up the languages - I know a good few people who've had luck with that.

Mr. Loverman

Is it possible there is a problem with your cover letter and CV? If you are applying for jobs all over Europe you should be having some sort of success.

Btw, a very easy way to get some extra experience on your CV is to do some small jobs on freelancer.com. Just pick the type of thing you want on your CV and do it for a low price.

petethebrick

Few Ideas:

Become a secondary school languages teacher (not the best paid but...)

Get into the private translation sector eg legal translation, technical translation (might involve doing a specific postgrad degree)

Get into business as you say. I think this could be the best option. Choose a good focused Masters degree having first researched the job opportunities. Your languages will be a huge asset in the business world.

Lunni

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Is it possible there is a problem with your cover letter and CV? If you are applying for jobs all over Europe you should be having some sort of success.

Btw, a very easy way to get some extra experience on your CV is to do some small jobs on freelancer.com. Just pick the type of thing you want on your CV and do it for a low price.

I've been looking into that but was worried about the tax issues (I'm such a worrywart!) Obviously it would be small amounts of money and not regular income but I'd hate to get into bother. Registering as self-employed here in Spain is so difficult and expensive, it's really not worth doing. I'm really interested in doing that though - I'm time rich and cash poor so any sort of online work is great for me.

petethebrick wrote: »

Few Ideas:

Become a secondary school languages teacher (not the best paid but...)

Get into the private translation sector eg legal translation, technical translation (might involve doing a specific postgrad degree)

Get into business as you say. I think this could be the best option. Choose a good focused Masters degree having first researched the job opportunities. Your languages will be a huge asset in the business world.

Secondary school teaching is definitely the last resort for me...should have posted that in the OP. I actually do consider that well-paid compared to what I've been earning over the last few years (currently on 1000 euro/month), I don't like teenagers and have no interest at all in working in a secondary school. Wouldn't be fair for the students to have a teacher who'd rather be doing just about anything else!

I think the issue I've always had with 'business' and 'marketing' is that they're so broad. I've established that I'm interested in market research and product advertising but that's it so far. I spotted a job for Brittany Tourism who wanted a web marketing manager to promote Brittany in the UK - that sort of thing would be very much what I'm interested in. Unfortunately, I spotted it too late and they've hired someone else now, but that's definitely along the lines of what I want. Internet, marketing, social media, languages and travel all in one!

Gillo

Just an thought as its an error I'll admit I don't know much about but what if you kept the current job and also did some voluntary work as a translator for a charity working with foreign nationals. The obvious benefit is you'll have experience which you can put on a CV, it'll also look good on your CV that you do charity work.

he man rugger

Maybe you could look at conversion masters? I assume you have some cash saved after three years working? The Government heavily subsidises some courses like the Conversion Masters in Computer Science at UCD. There are jobs in the field, and while Maths is involved, you don't need to be any sort of genius to get through it as it's all relatively basic. I don't know if you've any interest in that but I know a number of people who did it and came out with jobs on the other side with jobs as there's a dearth of qualified IT people here.

Lunni

Gillo wrote: »

Just an thought as its an error I'll admit I don't know much about but what if you kept the current job and also did some voluntary work as a translator for a charity working with foreign nationals. The obvious benefit is you'll have experience which you can put on a CV, it'll also look good on your CV that you do charity work.

I am signed up to numerous charities as a translator/proofreader...I hope work will start to trickle in soon. The issue is that lots of other people are in my position, happy to work for free, so even getting volunteer jobs can be difficult!

he man rugger wrote: »

Maybe you could look at conversion masters? I assume you have some cash saved after three years working? The Government heavily subsidises some courses like the Conversion Masters in Computer Science at UCD. There are jobs in the field, and while Maths is involved, you don't need to be any sort of genius to get through it as it's all relatively basic. I don't know if you've any interest in that but I know a number of people who did it and came out with jobs on the other side with jobs as there's a dearth of qualified IT people here.

I have nothing saved. I've done well to even support myself with what I've been earning as a TEFL teacher. My salary at the moment is just under 1000 euros a month for full time work and I don't get paid for any holidays, Christmas or Easter, so in December I'll only get about 500 for the month. I would consider a Conversion Masters but I'd be worried I wouldn't be able for something like Computer Science...will look into it though, thanks for the tip!

My daughter lives in Manchester and would love to come home to live but her bf would struggle to get a job here, so she stays in Manchester. My husband works in London during the week ( half the staff in his small office are Irish ) he comes home at the weekend he does not want to work in London he wants to be here but as he works in the construction industry he has no choice.

Should both of them come home and say I don't care where the work is I am determined to stay in Ireland no matter what. It is just not possible at the moment thats the key to your situation you have tried several time to establish a career in Ireland and its not working and no matter how much you dislike the idea you will probably have go away again if you want any sort of life, why not go to London? but do it with a good plan maybe to get in to legal or insurance translation work.

Do you keep in touch with any of the people you did the translation course with what are thy doing? or would you not go back to Korea for a while with the aim of saving hard and then coming home and seting up your own business Coffee shop or something like that.

sallywin

Lunni wrote: »

There was no opportunity to progress where I was, the money was still bad for the supervisors and the place has actually closed down now and they were all made redundant. I wouldn't mind at all starting 'at the bottom' but only if there's a clear and achievable way to move up within a few years. My sister is a trainee accountant and that's how it is for her. Unfortunately, I just don't think I could hack accountancy but something along those lines would be great.

There are lots of paths to take in the finance industry though and you don't have to go down a strictly accountant route at all! Don't rule it out altogether and remember that there will always be opportunities in finance and it's something you can travel with too.

Translation for me would be something to do in your 40s and 50s, live life as furiously and fiercely as you can before then!

Lunni

mariaalice wrote: »

My daughter lives in Manchester and would love to come home to live but her bf would struggle to get a job here, so she stays in Manchester. My husband works in London during the week ( half the staff in his small office are Irish ) he comes home at the weekend he does not want to work in London he wants to be here but as he works in the construction industry he has no choice.

Should both of them come home and say I don't care where the work is I am determined to stay in Ireland no matter what. It is just not possible at the moment thats the key to your situation you have tried several time to establish a career in Ireland and its not working and no matter how much you dislike the idea you will probably have go away again if you want any sort of life, why not go to London? but do it with a good plan maybe to get in to legal or insurance translation work.

Do you keep in touch with any of the people you did the translation course with what are thy doing? or would you not go back to Korea for a while with the aim of saving hard and then coming home and seting up your own business Coffee shop or something like that.

Where did I say I had to stay in Ireland? I haven't lived in Ireland for years except for the few weeks I did my TEFL course and stayed with my aunt. I definitely wouldn't mind going back one day but I'm not even looking in Ireland at the moment. It's more of a dream than a reality. I'm happy to live anywhere in Europe or even further afield.

I've already lived in London and I'd go back if I got a good job there but it's incredibly expensive. I ended up going abroad because I could barely even pay my rent there as a TEFL teacher and the pollution was making me quite sick. I did apply for jobs while there but I had to work so much that I hardly had any time. That's where most of my friends are, though and I go back regularly to see a consultant there so if I did get an interview, I'd probably be able to sort out going over.

I'm in touch with most of the people from my translation course but most of them are foreign or doing different language pairs so not really in the same boat. One girl did get an in-house job in France that came up in a Google search and the rest have gone into finance jobs in the City (they did A Level maths) or are still trying to get translation work. I'm trying to work on networking with those who have good jobs, connecting with people on LinkedIn and all that.

There's not much point in going to Korea to save these days. The exchange rate is pretty bad. The salary is great for when you're in Korea and everything is cheap, but when you convert it and send it home, it's not a lot at all. I only managed to pay off about a third of my student loan with what I saved last time

Lunni

sallywin wrote: »

There are lots of paths to take in the finance industry though and you don't have to go down a strictly accountant route at all! Don't rule it out altogether and remember that there will always be opportunities in finance and it's something you can travel with too.

Translation for me would be something to do in your 40s and 50s, live life as furiously and fiercely as you can before then!

I am looking into it now and trying to figure out what I'd be able for. I think it is probably the way to go. A stressful City job wouldn't be for me though as I do have some serious health issues, so starting at 7 and finishing at midnight wouldn't be possible, but anything with reasonable hours and reasonable amounts of stress should be OK.

sallywin

Lunni wrote: »

I am looking into it now and trying to figure out what I'd be able for. I think it is probably the way to go. A stressful City job wouldn't be for me though as I do have some serious health issues, so starting at 7 and finishing at midnight wouldn't be possible, but anything with reasonable hours and reasonable amounts of stress should be OK.

Well in that case you could start off in fund administration. Very accessible for arts graduates as the work isn't hard and you could get financial help from your company to do the ACCAs which are again doable. It's not hard maths, a lot of it is repetitive and you have formulae, etc. to do the sums. You'd just have to be vigilant and I am sure you would be since you have an aptitude for languages and translation which requires an analytical mind and attention to detail.

In Ireland there are fund admin companies offering jobbridge apprenticeships- now I know you're abroad like myself but you could seek an internship. And look into the different cities- Bankfurt for example!

OnTheCouch

Hello Lunni, sorry to hear about your plight.

Your story resonates quite strongly with me, as we seem to have a few things in common, in addition to similar dilemmas!

What you have in your favour compared to me is you are a few years younger and appear to have more/better experience and qualifications. I will not go into my complete life story here because it will go off topic somewhat.

However, what I can share with you is the sense of panic, I also feel that I am too old to be doing these starter/intern roles, but having gone from one to another in the past few years I suddenly feel that I have no other choice but to keep applying for them, as anything more advanced I will have no chance, what with the current competition. Unfortunately,what was perfectly fine putting up with at 25 however, is not quite so nowadays when priorities change. As you say, the prospect of having job security, not having to flat/house share with randomers and a proper salary is extremely appealing, but at the same time seems completely unrealistic to even contemplate currently.

Like yourself, I am quite interested in languages and have worked in translation and interpretation roles in the past. Any attempts I have made to contact translation agencies have nonetheless been completely futile. I have also applied many times for the concours of the European Institutions, but have on each occasion to my immense frustration, struggled greatly with the numerical reasoning part. A sentiment to which you are not unfamiliar I suspect. Likewise Google and other aptitude tests.

I have always suspected that languages are generally seen in the job world as more an 'asset' rather than a career path in themselves, (aside from interpretation/translation type roles of course), which is why your father was wise in suggesting a business qualification along with your primary degree. No point in looking back now however.

Regarding the teaching English, I have been contemplating doing something similar for many months now, but hearing from what you and others have had to say about it, I think I will steer clear. It appears that it is something which is great if you have a few years free in your early twenties, but is almost impossible to do as a full-time profession as a 'career choice.'

As for advice, well given you did very well in your translation course, you are clearly an accomplished writer. Perhaps you could go into writing or journalism, maybe for an international publication in order to make use of your languages? Like another poster mentioned, you would have to start at the bottom, but you said this was not a problem for you as long as there is a clear sense of being able to work one's self up.

There is always the business option, but as you say this would require further training.

Otherwise, if you have not already, I would look at Reed.co.uk for jobs in the UK and other countries, there are many interesting opportunities on there that require languages and other skills you appear to have. I also find useful that they give you the number of applicants, so it gives you an ideal (albeit vague) of what you are up against. I will add a disclaimer here and mention that I have not had any luck myself as regards interviews or anything so I cannot say for sure how likely you are to find something, but it is worth a try if nothing else.

Anyway, hope something comes up for both of us soon.

Best of luck!

Claregirl

Have you thought of seeing a Career Guidance Counsellor?

I wouldn't be the best in the world with aptitude tests (particularly maths) but I really needed to pass one for a promotion.

I got hold of as many sample papers that I could, I had a training session with a Career Guidance Counsellor who gave me additional sample papers and helpful tips on how to do the exams then practice, practice practice and the next aptitude exam that I did I had improved my overall score more than 50%.

Some of the tips are great like filling in all answers (if there's no negative marking) setting a timer so you can see what time you've left - even using a ruler so you're marking the correct answer on the correct sheet.

Lunni

OnTheCouch wrote: »

Hello Lunni, sorry to hear about your plight.

Your story resonates quite strongly with me, as we seem to have a few things in common, in addition to similar dilemmas!

What you have in your favour compared to me is you are a few years younger and appear to have more/better experience and qualifications. I will not go into my complete life story here because it will go off topic somewhat.

However, what I can share with you is the sense of panic, I also feel that I am too old to be doing these starter/intern roles, but having gone from one to another in the past few years I suddenly feel that I have no other choice but to keep applying for them, as anything more advanced I will have no chance, what with the current competition. Unfortunately,what was perfectly fine putting up with at 25 however, is not quite so nowadays when priorities change. As you say, the prospect of having job security, not having to flat/house share with randomers and a proper salary is extremely appealing, but at the same time seems completely unrealistic to even contemplate currently.

Well, that's it. People tell me how lucky I am to be able to live abroad and do the job I do - it is great when you're young, but you can't do the whole flatsharing and eating noodles thing forever.

Like yourself, I am quite interested in languages and have worked in translation and interpretation roles in the past. Any attempts I have made to contact translation agencies have nonetheless been completely futile. I have also applied many times for the concours of the European Institutions, but have on each occasion to my immense frustration, struggled greatly with the numerical reasoning part. A sentiment to which you are not unfamiliar I suspect. Likewise Google and other aptitude tests.

Yep, I know how it feels. Thing is, when I started my language degree, there were no numerical aptitude tests for the EU. It was an EU knowledge test and then language tests, which IMO makes far more sense! I'm pretty sure I'd be able to get in if it were still like that. I always do very, very well in the verbal reasoning and language parts. I fail to see why a translator needs to pass a maths test when the job contains no maths whatsoever. That's the whole reason translation was attractive in the first place!

I have always suspected that languages are generally seen in the job world as more an 'asset' rather than a career path in themselves, (aside from interpretation/translation type roles of course), which is why your father was wise in suggesting a business qualification along with your primary degree. No point in looking back now however.

Indeed. I don't think I'd have been able for it at 18, though. I just didn't have the motivation or interest in business back then.

Regarding the teaching English, I have been contemplating doing something similar for many months now, but hearing from what you and others have had to say about it, I think I will steer clear. It appears that it is something which is great if you have a few years free in your early twenties, but is almost impossible to do as a full-time profession as a 'career choice.'

It can be well-paid but not for most people. Generally for the big bucks you have to go to the Middle East or get a rare university position.

As for advice, well given you did very well in your translation course, you are clearly an accomplished writer. Perhaps you could go into writing or journalism, maybe for an international publication in order to make use of your languages? Like another poster mentioned, you would have to start at the bottom, but you said this was not a problem for you as long as there is a clear sense of being able to work one's self up.

Writing/journalism was my initial career choice, but I was told at school that it was completely unrealistic given the level of competition and the need for industry contacts. That seems to be true from what I've seen, even for local newspapers. I've applied to write for the local expat magazine here but haven't heard back yet.

Claregirl wrote: »

Have you thought of seeing a Career Guidance Counsellor?

I wouldn't be the best in the world with aptitude tests (particularly maths) but I really needed to pass one for a promotion.

I got hold of as many sample papers that I could, I had a training session with a Career Guidance Counsellor who gave me additional sample papers and helpful tips on how to do the exams then practice, practice practice and the next aptitude exam that I did I had improved my overall score more than 50%.

Some of the tips are great like filling in all answers (if there's no negative marking) setting a timer so you can see what time you've left - even using a ruler so you're marking the correct answer on the correct sheet.

No, I haven't, but I have done loads of sample papers. I already do things like fill in all the answers, but a lot of companies actually check (with computer based tests) how long it took you to work out the answers and reject you if you clearly just guessed. Insane, but true. My issue is that I'm soooo slow. I can solve the maths problems, but I need about 3 times longer than most people. The timer makes it even worse and the last time I did an aptitude test, I panicked and went to pieces despite having spent 3 months practising. I still do practice tests regularly but I'm trying to focus on jobs where these awful tests aren't required.

sallywin

Lunni if you are considering finance at all then you will have to get to grips with the basics in maths again. There are countless good books on that subject and with 3-6 months practice and study there is no reason why you can't master those types of tests, it's simple math for the most part and a lot of people coming from sectors outside of finance have to study for that section.

Otherwise you could consider investigative journalism and build up your own set of contacts- you don't need to be in the pockets of political hacks that way and you can work authentically.

Another great route, easier said than done, is entrepreneurship.

OnTheCouch

Lunni wrote: »

No, I haven't, but I have done loads of sample papers. I already do things like fill in all the answers, but a lot of companies actually check (with computer based tests) how long it took you to work out the answers and reject you if you clearly just guessed. Insane, but true. My issue is that I'm soooo slow. I can solve the maths problems, but I need about 3 times longer than most people. The timer makes it even worse and the last time I did an aptitude test, I panicked and went to pieces despite having spent 3 months practising. I still do practice tests regularly but I'm trying to focus on jobs where these awful tests aren't required.

Yeah again this is very similar to the problem I have, I can complete the problems in 4-5 minutes, but my brain just can't get to the bottom of the concept quick enough in the usual 2 minutes that you get.

Although as the last poster says, it may be just a question of constant practice, even if it takes people like ourselves that bit longer to become adept in a very short space of time.

Even though I cannot understand either why a prospective translator would have to be tested on maths, a characteristic of the modern job-seeking world is that it is more and more rare that you can just turn up to something and say 'look at me, these are my talents, hire me please,' as there is nearly always some sort of preparation to be done, whatever the position. And it often involves something which really is not that relevant to the actual duties required.

JustAThought

Ok.
So Maths is out.

If.hes.no good at.maths ACCA and other such is also out - his talents are.in.languages.

OP- dont panic! There.are.lots of companies.that do.t.need.maths.tests.

Where was.your original.college? Have you been in.co.tact with.your career guidance.section.- they have milk.rounds - ie applications.for.smart.graduates.for.multinational.firms.to.train.as.a.manager

2 years training with paid.salary. typically.rotating. between different departments + tfraining you up in different skillsets.
Many will.have overseas departments/ branches .where aftet training your language.skills.will.ultimately be.valuable.
They.wil.teach.yku.the.business.and.pay you.

Try.that while.you re.still within the.age bracket. They only go through colleges for these so you need to touch base with your old CG college section..

zyanya

Have you ever considered Mexico?

I know we're a third world country and all. But there's plenty of decently paid call centre and teaching jobs, and many people like it here, because we're ace at making foreigners feel welcome and wanted, and befriending them.

We have some amazing colonial cities and some really beautiful beaches. I have several foreigner friends who are quite happy here (some of them even like my city more than I do!).

Lunni

Just wanted to post and update and thank everyone for the advice.

I haven't really got any further and still don't really know what I want, but having reflected a bit, I don't think any sort of finance-related office job is for me. I have a lot of friends working for the big firms and none of them are happy. In general, I'm not happy and don't perform well in an 'office culture' and especially not when the work doesn't interest me. I know a lot of people just put up with the boredom 9-5 and enjoy the rewards and salary, but deep down I know I just couldn't do it.

I'm an avid blog reader and I keep seeing people who are freelancers and doing quite well (or seem to be doing quite well) and I'm thinking of just giving that a go. Half of me is saying 'go for it, why not?' and the other half is saying 'you must be mental, there are thousands out there like you, why would anyone ever hire you as a freelancer?' I know my skills aren't really unique but I think they do lend themselves well to freelancing - writing, translation, proofreading, teaching (was thinking of online classes and material development)....

I have signed up with Freelancer, but haven't been offered any projects yet. There seem to be a lot of people in third world countries who can afford to work for almost nothing - big problem for freelancers, I guess. Does anyone have any other sites I could try or any advice for getting started? I haven't had much luck with LinkedIn either - I've asked for references but seem to have been ignored so far

One positive is that I've done some translation work for charities for free and had very positive feedback from that, so I now have more on my CV and some decent references. I just really want to get into it. I suppose the short term plan is to keep teaching and then reduce my teaching hours if/when the freelancing takes off.

ebayissues

Try multinationals like eBay and PayPal. the more languages you can speak the better.

Marr

I am in a similar position as you! Late 20's, doing enough to get by but not enough to build a future on. I was more than satisfied just to have a job in my early twenties but lately I have started to panic about the future. You sound very well qualified and smart. I studied science in college and I do ok in aptitude tests but I have never been good at foreign languages! I always wished I could be a natural in that respect and thought it would be a ticket to so many things in work, travel e.t.c! It may not seem like much to you but to someone who cannot speak another language it is envy inducing. Don't lose heart!

With the recession and the change in what constitutes reliable or well payed jobs over the past few years things can feel impossible. There seems to be no clear career paths. Even once you get into a job there seems no obvious way to move up. I have had an entry level clerical job for the last 3 years. They have hired no one since and older staff members are not retiring or moving on. The work place feels stagnant and I worry that I will still be in the exact same position in 10 years. There are many of us in the same boat.

Your written expression is excellent. How about writing up articles and submitting them to magazines/newspapers? They are crying out for content. Many publications no longer keep a high level of permanent staff and rely on free lancers and external submissions. Don't wait for them to ask you. Send in the finished article. Keep writing and submitting regardless of feedback. Or blog! Diary of an ex-pat in Spain. Take pictures too! Maybe do something on the young people in Spain. Effects of the recession and so on. Or some aspect of life there or unusual storey that has caught your eye. Most reporters, journalists, travel writers, photojournalists e.t.c. are self starters in that respect. The secret is to do it first and think about it after. I have a bad tendency to procrastinate or think too much about what I will do and end up doing nothing!:rolleyes: The best way is to learn by doing. You might not get it right the first time or second or third but you keep learning. Fail again fail better as the saying goes. In time you will be as good as you'd like to be right now!

There are good jobs teaching the children of the wealthy in private schools and so on in Spain. I know someone who did that. Same in other countries. Anyway, try not to get bogged down. Easy said I know. When things do start to get better you will be in the top of the pile with your qualifications and experience. Meantime keep doing as much as you can. You may stumble on something that you never considered that suits you.:)

playedalive

Hi! I'm actually a soon to be modern languages grad myself. Funnily enough, I am just like you. I would just love to have a job where I could use my languages. So far, I have been deliberating between EFL teaching/ Secondary School teaching, Translation (but it seems that job opportunities aren't great if your target language is English?) and Tourism Management.

I mentioned the last one in particular (Tourism), because it might just suit you if you want to use your language and have something to complement it. I know there is a masters program in Tourism Management in different places.

Lunni

Lunni wrote: »

Thanks for the advice everyone.



I've tried, but their recruitment process is insane. The issue is that because my maths is so weak, I find any kind of aptitude test close to impossible. I've applied for loads of grad schemes and positions for linguists and not got in because of my maths, even though I'd never need to use maths for the job! I consider myself intelligent and plenty of people have told me I am, but I just can't seem to pass that type of test. I'll still keep trying, though! It's just hard to do all these application processes when I already have a full time job. I reckon I'd be more successful if I moved back in with my parents and just job hunted, but that's also quite a risk. Especially because they live in the middle of nowhere.

Have you actually tried? What area?

Getting into Google is easier if you know someone in there as they take recommendations from people working there really seriously. It's more about how you think than maths. Engineering roles naturally involve more maths but business/consultancy/strategy/sales etc doesn't involve maths. Analytical thinking/inquisitive attitude far more important.

Lunni

Yes, I will just have to give it a shot. I tend to worry about stuff like tax issues when it comes to freelance work instead of just focusing on getting it. While tax issues are a very real issue while I'm living in Spain (it's a massive headache and expense to be self-employed here), I could probably work around them. I'm happy to have found some decent translation work for NGOs and I will look into writing/journalism. My issue here is confidence - I don't believe my writing is that good and had my hopes crushed at school by a couple of teachers who told me I'd never make it as a writer without connections, but I'll give it a go.

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you actually tried? What area?

Getting into Google is easier if you know someone in there as they take recommendations from people working there really seriously. It's more about how you think than maths. Engineering roles naturally involve more maths but business/consultancy/strategy/sales etc doesn't involve maths. Analytical thinking/inquisitive attitude far more important.

I have applied for Google, got nowhere and I don't think I know anyone in there at the moment. Can always try again. Any idea what the working hours and stress levels are like?