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Something I have noticed about Wikipedia with Irish identity...

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  • 03-11-2012 2:38pm
    #1
    LincolnsBeard
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭


    If the person in question is self-identified as Irish, then the Wikipedia article states they are Irish. Yet if the person is self-identified as British, then it just says they are from Northern Ireland or they are Northern Irish.

    So this had me thinking, do you think that Wikipedia is accurate? Or do you think it can fall victim to personal bias by people?

    The Wiki article on Daniel Day Lewis used to state he was an English actor with British and Irish citizenship. If you check the wiki history, there's huge ongoing arguments between people arguing about his nationality.

    You can find this with many Irish people. Dermot O'leary and Shane MacGowan wiki articles are also sources of great argument.



    I know I spend too much time on the internet, but I find all this quite interesting.


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    #2
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    if you're born in ireland and live you're irish.


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    #3
    girl2
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭girl2


    Not another Irish / Northern Irish thread. Please no.


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    #4
    Ficheall
    Registered Users Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    LincolnsBeard wrote: »
    So this had me thinking, do you think that Wikipedia is accurate? Or do you think it can fall victim to personal bias by people?

    Hmmm...


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    #5
    LincolnsBeard
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭LincolnsBeard


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    if you're born in ireland and live you're irish.

    Not that simple though.

    Dermot O'Leary is born and raised in England but calls himself Irish.

    Shane Macgowan was born in England and went to school there but he's Irish.

    Daniel Day Lewis was born in England and grew up there but his Dad was Irish and he has lived in Ireland for many many years as well as having Irish nationality.
    girl2 wrote: »
    Not another Irish / Northern Irish thread. Please no.

    Read the thread again, not just about Northern Ireland.


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    #6
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    LincolnsBeard wrote: »
    Not that simple though.

    Dermot O'Leary is born and raised in England but calls himself Irish.

    Shane Macgowan was born in England and went to school there but he's Irish.

    they're not irish.


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    #7
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    are you saying that if a person with an Irish identity states that their nationality is British, then Wiki assumes they are Northern Irish, and states that is their nationality?

    *Wiki says McGowan is Irish, now Im confused.


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    #8
    LincolnsBeard
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭LincolnsBeard


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    they're not irish.

    According to who?

    They consider themselves Irish, the law recognises them as Irish, who are you to tell them they're not Irish?


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    #9
    LincolnsBeard
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭LincolnsBeard


    donegal_road wrote: »
    are you saying that if a person with an Irish identity states that their nationality is British, then Wiki assumes they are Northern Irish, and states that is their nationality?

    Yes. Rarely are famous British people from Northern Ireland described as British.


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    #10
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    LincolnsBeard wrote: »
    Read the thread again, not just about Northern Ireland.

    I'm not sure it's about Northern Ireland at all.

    LincolnsBeard wrote: »
    If the person in question is self-identified as Irish, then the Wikipedia article states they are Irish. Yet if the person is self-identified as British, then it just says they are from Northern Ireland or they are Northern Irish.

    :confused:

    Not one of the wikipedia articles about the people mentioned states that they are from Northern Ireland.


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    #11
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    What's the big deal? If you were born in Northern Ireland but more identify with Britain, then I think you're Northern Irish. But if you identify more so with the south you should be able to say you're Irish.

    I don't think there needs to be rules stating you are IRISH/British if you're born in the north. It's whatever people think themselves.


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    #12
    LincolnsBeard
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭LincolnsBeard


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    :confused:

    Not one of the wikipedia articles about the people mentioned states that they are from Northern Ireland.

    I'm talking about different examples.

    The N Ireland thing was just one example.

    The other people I mentioned are other examples.


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    #13
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    He's saying that people born in England to Irish parents are claimed to be from Northern Ireland. I think. It's confusing.


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    #14
    LincolnsBeard
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭LincolnsBeard


    1ZRed wrote: »
    What's the big deal? If you were born in Northern Ireland but more identify with Britain, then I think you're Northern Irish. But if you identify more so with the south you should be able to say you're Irish.

    I don't think there needs to be rules stating you are IRISH/British if you're born in the north. It's whatever people think themselves.

    Northern Irish? Does anybody actually identify themselves as that
    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    He's saying that people born in England to Irish parents are claimed to be from Northern Ireland. I think. It's confusing.

    No I'm not. Apologies for any confusion I have caused.


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    #15
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Yes. Frequently.


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    #16
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    LincolnsBeard wrote: »
    No I'm not. Apologies for any confusion I have caused.

    Ok then, in that case you might want to edit the op because that's what it says.


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    #17
    daisybelle2008
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭daisybelle2008


    Why do people think it is so important to identify themselves on a geographic accident of birth? Surely a person has to think this identification somehow makes them somehow superior otherwise why would it be important?

    'Nationalism teaches people to hate people they have never meet, and take pride in accomplishments they have had no part in' - Doug Stanhope


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    #18
    Spread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    You are what you think you are. It's all in the mind - regardless of the genes. I meet people out here who tell me that they're Irish. Well they may have 1/12 Irish in them but they want to identify as Irish. That is OK. Some would tell you that they are direct descendants of the Founding Fathers. That is also OK. Whatever floats your boat!

    Wiki is my first port of call .......... but it shouldn't be taken as gospel.


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    #19
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    if you're born in ireland and live you're irish.

    And what about if you're not born in Ireland or living there? Can you still call yourself Irish?


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    #20
    wilkie2006
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭wilkie2006


    daisybelle2008 wrote: »
    Why do people think it is so important to identify themselves on a geographic accident of birth? Surely a person has to think this identification somehow makes them somehow superior otherwise why would it be important?

    Because that geographic accident of birth influences fundamentally someone's personality and outlook. It's not the lump of ground that's important, it's who and what share that lump of ground with you; our characters are defined not by us but by other people, events and cultural circumstances.


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    #21
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    wilkie2006 wrote: »
    Because that geographic accident of birth influences fundamentally someone's personality and outlook. It's not the lump of ground that's important, it's who and what share that lump of ground with you; our characters are defined not by us but by other people, events and cultural circumstances.

    But oftentimes it'd not where you were born that is that influence. It's those around you moreso, who aren't necessarily from that country.


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    #22
    Emeraldy Pebbles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 787 ✭✭✭Emeraldy Pebbles


    LincolnsBeard wrote: »
    Daniel Day Lewis was born in England and grew up there but his Dad was Irish and he has lived in Ireland for many many years as well as having Irish nationality.

    He's English though. He might live in Ireland, but AFAIK, he identifies as British. His Dad was Anglo-Irish, after all.


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    #23
    SharpshooterTom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    they're not irish.

    Dermot O'Leary is a ROI supporter and considers himself Irish. Its a personal choice at the end of the day.


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    #24
    SuperInfinity
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭SuperInfinity


    Well this is the most fascinating subject evar that matters so much, god I'm going to be thinking about and researching this for important issue for the next couple of weeks now.


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