Irish Rail Ticket Machines

Gillo

Ok, here's an interesting one I'd love to hear peoples opinions on...

Once a week I pick my daughter up after school in Balbriggan and bring her to visit my folks in Skerries, we usually get the train (a whole six minutes). Now I have an annual bus and rail pass for myself so am covered for the journey, my daughter on the other hand has to purchase a ticket. Over the last year or so there has been no one working at the station when we go to get the train in order to buy a ticket from, there are ticket vending machines though, however you can't purchase a child ticket by itself from the machine- if you purchase an adult one you can then add a child one at that stage. Trying to be an honest law abiding citizen I have in 95% of the times bought her an adult ticket. I'll admit once or twice I've just wisked her through with out buying anything.

About two weeks ago I email Irish Rail regarding the issue and got a response this morning, the reason they gave for this was "as the sale of such tickets from TVM's may possibly lead to misuse by some adult passengers, this situation is under review" they go on to suggest buying her ticket in advance at any Iarnrod Eireann booking office up to twenty eight days in advance. Since this is pretty much the only train journey I make it's not exactly convenient to buy a ticket in advance.

In one way I can see where they are coming from but in another I think it just creates a fair bit of ball ache for customers, so good commuters of boards, whats your opinions and what should I write back to them.

bikeman1

Is there anybody in Skerries station when you get off? If so you could buy your ticket at the other end.

If you can't buy your ticket off the machine and nobody is there, I would go ahead. If you meet a checker they would be sympathetic of your situation and issue a ticket.

At the end of the day, it's not your fault that you cannot purchase a ticket for your child.

It makes sense that child tickets are not available, the amount of people that would buy them off the machines and use them as a way to get through the barriers would be very big. IE seem to be happy to let a few free child tickets go through at quiet times, rather than police child tickets being used by Over 15s.

schemingbohemia

well, as you have an annual pass surely you're in the station during the rest of the week and would know a few hours in advance when you're going to bring your daughter to skerries? then you could purchase in advance.

while it's a pain it's cheaper having it that way than allowing adults to buy child fares from machines which they were apparently doing in significant numbers

Gillo

schemingbohemia wrote: »

well, as you have an annual pass surely you're in the station during the rest of the week and would know a few hours in advance when you're going to bring your daughter to skerries? then you could purchase in advance.

while it's a pain it's cheaper having it that way than allowing adults to buy child fares from machines which they were apparently doing in significant numbers

It's a bus and rail pass, I use the bus daily the rail isn't used much at all in fact I'd say if I worked it out it'd be marginally cheaper to get just the bus ticket for for the few extra euro it's handier to have both the bus and rail.

It's the same story in Skerries where we get off the train. No station staff and obviously the same software in the machines>

LXFlyer

It is perfectly acceptable for your daughter to pay at the destination when it is not possible to buy a child ticket at Balbriggan.

You certainly should not be buying an adult ticket for her.

Thoie

Why not just get her a child leap card?

foggy_lad

If the ticket you require is not available to purchase at the station you are allowed to buy one at your destination as per the terms and conditions of carriage also if they can't sell you a ticket at your destination because the station is abandoned/unmanned you are entitled to that journey for free.

Victor

Thoie wrote: »

Why not just get her a child leap card?

Agreed, no headaches of risking being fined and you get a reduced fare.

foggy_lad

Victor wrote: »

Agreed, no headaches of risking being fined and you get a reduced fare.

There is no risk of being fined when the tickets are not available to purchase at your departure or destination stations and Irish rail clearly admits they are not available to purchase. Also what headache can there be in saving the fare for a child or several children because the tickets are not available?

As for being fined, you can't be fined for not buying something that can't be bought!

Carawaystick

Can your child reach up to use the machine?

Julius Seizure

If she can't buy the correct ticket at the origin point she must buy on train or in destination. She travels free if none of these are available. Technically TVMs aren't even in the bye law!

Hilly Bill

since you cant get child's ticket from the machine its irrelevant if they are in the by law or not. In this case you either travel with the intent of paying at the first chance or buy an adult ticket and claim a refund which would be a bit of a hassle .

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

since you cant get child's ticket from the machine its irrelevant if they are in the by law or not. In this case you either travel with the intent of paying at the first chance or buy an adult ticket and claim a refund which would be a bit of a hassle .

Have refunds been authorised in the past where adult tickets were purchased because child tickets were not available? i doubt it very much but maybe someone with some knowledge of IE operations could enlighten us?

Hilly Bill

they have but you need to claim before traveling on the day which you cant do if the booking office isnt open. In this case it could be best to have some sort of ticket when travelling to save any potential hassle or buy one in advance when you know when you need it for.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

they have but you need to claim before traveling on the day which you cant do if the booking office isnt open. In this case it could be best to have some sort of ticket when travelling to save any potential hassle or buy one in advance when you know when you need it for.

So you can only claim a refund if you do not travel so your suggestion to buy the adult ticket and claim a refund after is nonsense as no refunds will be issued once the journey is completed.


In this case it is best to check that the machine doesn't issue a child ticket and board without a ticket if one is not available to purchase. If your ticket can be bought at the destination station then you MUST purchase the ticket there! If it can't be bought at your destination then you enjoy a free trip from irish rail!

Remember you are under no obligation to purchase child tickets in advance or to make special arrangements to facilitate irish rail including purchasing a leap card for your children, you can't be threatened or fined for not having something which is not available.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

So you can only claim a refund if you do not travel so your suggestion to buy the adult ticket and claim a refund after is nonsense as no refunds will be issued once the journey is completed.


In this case it is best to check that the machine doesn't issue a child ticket and board without a ticket if one is not available to purchase. If your ticket can be bought at the destination station then you MUST purchase the ticket there! If it can't be bought at your destination then you enjoy a free trip from irish rail!

Remember you are under no obligation to purchase child tickets in advance or to make special arrangements to facilitate irish rail including purchasing a leap card for your children, you can't be threatened or fined for not having something which is not available.

It only applies to wrongly purchased tickets but in this case you could argue that the ruling in this case cancels itself out because if the booking office was open then you wouldnt have bought an adult ticket in the first place and you should be due a refund simply because you tried to do the right thing incase you got checked on the train. The question remains as to what an RPU officer would do in this case.
Why shouldnt someone purchase a child leap card if the option is there Foggy? It would cover the OP in his question.
Its simple, if you go to a train station and the booking office and the ticket machine is closed you will get on the train if you are able exit the station at the other end without paying then you will.
Irish Rail dont expect anyone to make special arrangements to facilitate them , they just expect you to buy a ticket when its possible for you do so. How and when you do so is down to you.

Carawaystick

What do the byelaws say about the responsibilities of a child having a ticket on the train? Who is liable? If a child was travelling alone/ without an adult who would be liable?
If a child was below the age of reason that couldn't be criminally liable

Can a parent/ guardian be held criminally responsible for their child not having a ticket?
If not, it'd be fairly hard to secure a conviction against a child who tells a judge the machine doesn't sell children's tickets what could I do but try buy one at the far end, but the big nasty man from Irish rail wouldn't sell me one on the train

Hilly Bill

Carawaystick wrote: »

What do the byelaws say about the responsibilities of a child having a ticket on the train? Who is liable? If a child was travelling alone/ without an adult who would be liable?
If a child was below the age of reason that couldn't be criminally liable

Can a parent/ guardian be held criminally responsible for their child not having a ticket?
If not, it'd be fairly hard to secure a conviction against a child who tells a judge the machine doesn't sell children's tickets what could I do but try buy one at the far end, but the big nasty man from Irish rail wouldn't sell me one on the train

Thats a good one alright, what age would you class below the age of reason? under 10? and should a child of that age be travelling alone without an adult?
If an Rpu chap saw a child of that age alone and wanted to buy a ticket on the train id say he would sell the child a ticket . Personally id be more concerned at the child travelling alone and not about having a ticket or not.
After saying that, there are a good few kids around 10 or so messing about on the Northside Dart every day and i doubt very much if they bought a ticket.

Hilly Bill

OP, what kind of bus and rail pass do you have? Is it a purchased one that can be used in the barriers or a social welfare one? Reason for asking is, if its a purchased one then obviously you are covered but if its a SW one then you would have to get a ticket from the booking office first before travelling if it was open. If its the SW pass and the booking office is closed then you would just show your pass to a checker if asked and tell them the ticket office was closed . The same would apply if its a purchased pass and you just tell them that you couldnt purchase a child's ticket. It would be up to them to either sell you a child's ticket or give you the go ahead.


These are the opening times for Balbriggan. If they are not open at these times then get on to Irish Rail and tell them to update their times. The site also has times for Skerries but as far as i know its unmanned.

Booking Office Hours:
05:45hrs-19:00hrs Mon-Fri
07:00hrs-18:30hrs Sat
08:30hrs-14:30hrs Sun

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Why shouldnt someone purchase a child leap card if the option is there Foggy? It would cover the OP in his question.

Because the op is already covered by this

Its simple, if you go to a train station and the booking office and the ticket machine is closed you will get on the train if you are able exit the station at the other end without paying then you will.

If you go to your local station and they are handing out free tickets are you going to turn them down and say "no thanks, I prefer to use my leap card and pay for the journey."?

Hilly Bill

The point was Foggy that the OP had the option to buy one and use it if they were concerned that the booking office was closed all the time, if they then decide to tag on and off when the stations are unmanned and the gates are open is a matter for them.
A post on here covers nobody Foggy .
You do realise dont you that ive been basically agreeing with you here

pinkbear

This has been the way between these stations for years. My friends daughter was fined €50 years ago for not having a ticket, even though she couldn't buy one. The parents wrote & complained but in the end had to pay. My daughter has been stopped & given out to for not having a ticket, and told she should have bought the adult one and claimed back the difference, but she wasn't fined. And when I was travelling with my daughter I did buy her an adult ticket with the intention of claiming back the difference, but was told at the destination "What did you do that for, that was silly", and when I tried to claim back the difference I was told they don't process any claims under €5 and mine was only €4.80. But they did say the best thing to do is not buy a ticket, get fined, then complain, and the complaint will get thrown out! It's a bit ridiculous!